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Hi Reeeen,
Firstly, congratulations on having a go. It's much easier to say than do.
There's plenty of good advice available on this forum, but you need specific advice.I don't personally know Melanie, but she seems to be knowledgeable and pragmatic. I would suggest you seek a meeting with her, or another town planner, and get to the bottom of your own planning issues.
Prepare a list of questions, make a time, and get some answers.
As Melanie suggested, many subdivisions are done on lots of less than 600m2, and we deal with all different types of densities on all different types of land. Generally speaking, the closer the property is located to key amenities like transport, shops and employment, the higher the permissible density.
The information is freely available but not easily understood.
In trying to find a property that is suitable, I would suggest looking at those suburbs in which these conversions are already taking place. For example we're currently doing one in Collingwood, and there are plenty of others around that area.
Another option I had been considering, as I am personally interested in this type of conversion, is to look at well established provincial centres. In essence some of these towns (like Ballarat and Bendigo) were built not long after Melbourne and have some wonderful old buildings that could be converted. As these towns become more cosmopolitan I believe demand will increase for "inner city" dwelling types.
Hi Minidaz1,
As ever, some great advice above.
Subdividing is not difficult, but it is reasonably complex and can be time consuming.
The actual subdivision is not difficult and most surveyors can prepare the plan of subdivision and supporting documentation for you. The bigger issue, as pointed out by Malanie, is that one generally needs permission to subdivide land.
This permission is in the form of a town planning permit (TPP).
Subdivision can occur most commonly in two different ways:
- Land can be subdivided as part of a property development submission. That is to say, when a TPP application is made, for example to build a second dwelling behind an existing dwelling, then permission can be obtained at the same time to subdivide the land in accordance with the plans submitted. In this case you can either complete the project yourself or look to sell the land "with plans and permits" to someone else.
- Land can be subdivided in accordance with a Section 173 agreement. This is an agreement between the land owner and the council as to the future use of the land. Anyone who purchases the subdivided land from you will then be bound by the conditions of the agreement.
These are the two most common scenarios in R1Z land.
Hope that helps, and good luck with the project.
Personally, I love clinker brick, so I may be biased.
Re-finishing the walls – one way or another – is expensive so perhaps you could consider a different approach?
You could freshen up the the windows, doors and trim work with a well selected paint colour and perhaps even install a new entry door. Perhaps some landscaping would change the appearance?
I hope the following doesn't stray too far off topic.
Firstly, ascertain if the project is feasible.
In very simple terms, and before allowing for tax:Land cost* + development costs** = cost base
Value at completion – cost base = margin
Your margin should be 20% or more*The land cost needs to be included in you feasibility even if you own the land. It may be, for example that you are better off selling up and buying property better suited to subdivision and development.
**In very basic terms, the development costs include the planning and documentation, the building works, the peripheral works (like driveways and infrastructure) and any levies and contributions payable.
Now, this is just an opinion.
Buy landed property as close as you can to the CBD.
Ideally the property should be located close to public transport and other amenities.
Hi Baysider,
In my experience, you have several potential options:
- Apply to subdivide the land using a S173 agreement with the council. The land can then be sold to someone else to do with what they wish as long as it does not contravene the S173.
- Apply to subdivide and develop the land by making a complete TPP submission. You could then sell the land with plans and permits to someone else. Less flexibility for the purchaser, more control for you.
- Subdivide and develop the new dwelling, and sell the existing dwelling. There may be depreciation benefits.
Good luck with the project.
Hello CSQ,
Thanks for the thanks.
The issues of process, as you being a planner would understand, are often misunderstood by investors wanting to develop property. The process is not particularly difficult but it is quite complex and it's easy to miss bits that may become vitally important as a proposal progresses.
The dot points I set out in this thread are a simplified, shortened, "plain English" version of the process, but I believe that if you understand these basics, and give proper thought to forming a brief, then the project is more likely to meet your expectations.
Link,
Consider booking (and paying for) some time with a planner, designer or architect in the area who is familiar with the type of project you wish to undertake. Ask for two hours of their time, prepare a list of questions, and take notes. $500 for a big heap of expertise is a bargain in my opinion.
It's an interesting question.
Perhaps it has to with the structure you use.
I'm not an expert in these matters, but there are others on here that are.In any case perhaps it could work like this:
You form a unit trust with a corporate trustee to purchase the property.
You provide security for the trust using your equity.
The trust has your daughter as beneficiary.
The trust should be established so as to allow undisclosed family members to become beneficiaries.Good luck with your research
It's my line of work, so I may be biased, but you might consider:
- Buy a well located house with adequate land for say $700,000
- Subdivide the land and build a second dwelling
- Sell the existing house on its subdivided land for say $600,000
- Take your cash back and retain the (new) second dwelling financed at an LVR of 60%
And good luck whichever way you go.
I'm speculating here, but it sounds like CHL is renting the property via the NRAS.
I would estimate it will cost in the vicinity of $20,000 to move the house. I also agree with Catalyst and suggest you first ascertain if the land can be subdivided. 600m2 is potentially large enough for a subdivision but will depend on location and zoning.
It's a smart idea.
Some very basic answers to your questions:
Firstly, the term "condominium" is not commonly used in describing Australian real estate types. Instead, they are referred to generically as units, or more specifically as apartments or townhouses depending on the configuration.
- Allow 18 months from concepts to completion for a smaller project, of which 6 months will be dedicated to town planning. Occasionally this will take less time, and occasionally more.
- You will need a good conveyancing lawyer to help with purchases and sales of property, a design consultant to help with town planning, design and documentation, a building contractor (builder) to get them built, a land surveyor to handle the subdivision and a real estate agent to make sales on your behalf.
- There are several different entity types and structures – including companies and trusts – but this is an area for specific legal guidance on a case by case basis. You will need both legal and accounting advice for this.
You will need to establish an entity to buy and sell property. Once that entity has secured property for development (and one would assume you have tested the feasibility before making purchase) the proposal will require town planning permission (a DA or TPP depending on the state or territory in which the property is located) will then be constructed in line with the permitted use. The properties can then be subdivided in plan or strata and sold or rented individually.
This is by no means an exhaustive description of the process, but is hopefully enough to give you an idea.
The intentions of the zones are consistent across the state and each municipality has its own overlays, restrictions and recommendations. The inconsistencies Scott refers to are, I believe, more to do with municipal preferences than state planning. The different residential zones – R1Z, R2Z and R3Z for example – are generally established to suit strategic planning needs as they relate to density. In simple terms different residential zones will have different density benchmarks. Each council will have a "schedule to the zone" which refers to the strategic planning within that zone.
I don't work in WA, however, most planning schemes are established around benchmarks that allow for some discretion. Your question is clear enough, and the municipal requirements you have quoted are also clear, so in this case it seems to be an issue of discretion. Perhaps you should visit the municipal planners at City of Stirling and simply ask them the question. If you are able to accommodate all of the site coverage and open space criteria then the density issue may not be pertinent.
The amount quoted, in my opinion, seems reasonable. As suggested elsewhere in this thread, it's not so much about how much you are paying, but for what. In simple terms you need to know that the builder will have all the information he or she needs to complete the building as you want it built.
If you wish to make an offer, and you want that offer taken seriously, consider the following:
- Make the offer in writing
- Make any conditions clear in the written offer
- Ensure the conditions are not onerous
- Attach a cheque for the deposit amount
- Apply a sunset to the offer
And good luck with the search
The asset type is not widely understood and so not readily available. Armed with a clear understanding, you could approach agents to in turn approach landlords on your behalf. However, as you have suggested, it may be "easier" to buy a property.
If you buy a property with plans to subdivide into strata you will, of course, pay a premium. Perhaps you should instead look for a property that is located in a position that will allow you to develop the space above and also get some signage space.
Yes, if you have a good idea of what you wish to achieve, it would now be the right time to approach a designer to help you with both the concepts and the process.
