A year ago, my brother and I bought into my father’s investment property…..at least we thought we had.[confused2]
You see, due to the property boom my father’s IP had increased in value to such an extent that he was no longer eligible for Veteran Affairs benefits. So it came about that my bro and I bought a half share in the property. I wasn’t happy about the deal. The return was crap but hey….its family so you do it.
Next week it is to be sold. It was prooving just too expensive and it is certainly a relief to be rid of it. However when the buyers did a search they found that only my fathers name was on the title. [ohno2]
Dad asked the solicitor for an explaination and was told “I was awaiting instructions from your daughter” (that being me). When I rang the solicitor he told me that he had been waiting on information from the broker. Next time I rang him he told me he had been waiting on information from the bank. Everyone can stuff up but I expect them to own up to their error, not make feeble excues. Some would say ” what do you expect? He’s a lawyer”[thumbsdownanim
Anyways a year ago I paid stamp duty and solicitors fees and set up a loan which cost heaps in interest but apparently the transfer never went through.
The bank had stuffed up also because they thought we were buying my bro’s property that we had put up as collateral.
My accountant isn’t happy that I want to claim for interest on a loan for a property I dont legally own.
My father isn’t happy that he has to try to explain to Veteran Affairs that he doesnt really own ALL the property that puts him over the asset level.
I am bloody relieved that my business partner is my father who of course will pay out our loan. I have to wonder where we would stand legally if I’d had some ruthless business partner who told me
to go take a jump in the lake cos I had no claim to the property.Anyways, it has been a learning curve. I should have checked that everything was in order. I no longer trust people to do their jobs. I am currently selling and purchasing a new property and have decided to do my own legals. I’d rather make the stuff ups myself.
thanks for listening to my whinge
milly
ps. Naturally I am looking for a new solicitorHi Milly, Not sure if I read your post right, but if it wasn’t transferred then who received the stamp duty? You may be owed some money back and other costs.
C2
Rich in happiness and money is better than rich in money with no happiness.
hi c2
the solicitor tells us that the stamp duty was paid despite the fact the transfer never went through. Of course i have no proof of this and wouldnt be surprised if the money is floating around in the solicitors trust account.
milly
Hi Milly,
As your solicitor is claiming that the stamp duty has been paid ask them for the receipt details and/or follow the matter up with the relevant authority in the state concerned.
If the stamp duty has been paid it would indicate (to my laymans way of thinking) that the solicitor is at fault here.
I would also be following the matter up (in writing) with both the broker and solicitor. Do not rely on memory of phone calls – but if you do need to make a phone call then diarise the conversation immediately thereafter and before you do anything else. It would also be advisable to paraphrase your jottings and read them back to the person with whom you are speaking and get them to confirm your record as being accurate.
Depending uo the outcome of these conversations and communications it may be appropriate to follow the matter up with the relevant governing bodies in your state.
What has your brother found out? It would seem that you are both being short changed here and he also needs to get on the case – after all two heads are better than one in situations like these.
Derek
[email protected]
http://www.pis.theinvestorsclub.com.au
0409 882 958Thanks C2 and Derek especially for great advice as usual.
I gave the solicitor a ring and politely enquired after a refund on the stamp duty. He told me ‘the wheels are in motion”.
yeah yeah I wonder if those wheels wouldve moved if I hadnt mentioned it.
As for my brother, since I have enduring power of attourney he leaves everything to me. He is my sixth baby after my four boys and my father. [confused2]
milly
Hi Milly,
As the solicitor has acknowledged that you are due for a stamp duty refund then I would follow the conversation with a simple letter.
This way there is a written record that they will be providing you with a refund. Keep it simple. Stage one is to get the refund.
Stage two is to hit them for a refund of their fees they received for a task they didn’t complete complete correctly. Do this in writing too.
After this is all done then you will have a written record that the solicitor mucked up and this documentation may well provide centrelink with sufficient evidence that your father did endeavour to reduce his assets below the veteran’s threshold level.
At the same time you will need to address the issue of the loan. Without knowing the details I cannot see how you were provided with the money when your name wasn’t on the title – I am sure a learned broker will come along and answer this for you.
Derek
[email protected]
http://www.pis.theinvestorsclub.com.au
0409 882 958Interesting Milly
I had some clients about a year ago, 3 of them who owned a property jointly in a trust – or at least they thought they did. Their solicitor made an error and the title was registered in their names instead of the corporate trustee. They had no idea and had been doing their tax returns etc as if the trust owned the property.
Terryw
Discover Home Loans
North Sydney
[email protected]Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
This is a very interesting thread. Obviously Milly you will get nearly 100% agreement on the Lawyers bit.
The bit that really interests me is the follow up after settlement – that indeed the official recording of the new purchasers in the exact format as specified in the Transfer of Land document has actually been carried out.
I must admit this is something I could not confirm, and have assumed that my Settlement agent and Titles office has indeed got the right structure / purchaser listed as the legal owner in the correct % etc.
You never get any feedback after settlement…other than the standard “congratulations, on this day the title has been transferred over to you and the mortgage has been registered to Bank X”
You never actually get confirmation what was recorded on the title. I suppose a couple of $9.00 searches would do the trick, but it’s something that never crossed my mind to double check my agent that the people you pay to do the job actually did the job 100% correctly. If the agent / solicitor did the right thing and the Titles Office stuffed up, I’d imagine that’d be a difficult one to chase down.
I must get onto this…it’s slightly important to be 100% sure the registered proprietor is indeed correct.
Cheers,
Darryl Moore
“No point having a cake if you can’t eat it.”
Everyone, this is so important to get that final document after settlement. I did conveyancing for many years. In Queensland you can apply(though the solicitors at the time of purchasing) a copy of the Certificate of Title to check that everying is held in the right names and the right percentages too.
Infact you can all go along to your Department of Natural Resources and like you said for a few bucks get a copy of every one of them right now. I cannot emphasize how important this is. Who knows you might even have a couple of caveats over your properties that you never new about!!!!!
Because they always have their hands in other peoples pockets and are the only profession who charge for an opinion even if its at the pub having a bear with a few mates.
Oh by the way that just cost $235.00 for my advise and response – RIGHT!!
Phil[cigar]
Hi Milly,
Derek Posted – 26/09/2005 : 19:12:34
Hi Milly,As the solicitor has acknowledged that you are due for a stamp duty refund then I would follow the conversation with a simple letter.
This way there is a written record that they will be providing you with a refund. Keep it simple. Stage one is to get the refund.
Stage two is to hit them for a refund of their fees they received for a task they didn’t complete complete correctly. Do this in writing too.
After this is all done then you will have a written record that the solicitor mucked up and this documentation may well provide centrelink with sufficient evidence that your father did endeavour to reduce his assets below the veteran’s threshold level.
At the same time you will need to address the issue of the loan. Without knowing the details I cannot see how you were provided with the money when your name wasn’t on the title – I am sure a learned broker will come along and answer this for you.
Derek
And after you accomplished all that – I
d charge them interest on the money that you have spnet, that they held (read used on your behalf). Even if it is only the interest your money would have earned in a savings account! Worked for us and the ATO! They muffed it and after querying it we were told to awaite our refund. It should only take 3 to 4 weeks! So we asked for interest! The little front office guy didn’t want to go for it so we told him to get his manager, nearly 5 minutes later he came out and said it would be arranged.I think it is claimable under lost earnings.
Cheers
C@34Our greatest weakness lies in giving up. The most certain way to succeed is to always try something one more time.
– Thomas Edisonwell there aint no happy ending here folks.
Got a letter yesterday from solicitor with an attached letter from the Office of State Revenue that holds the stamp duty.
It informs me that there will be no refund of stamp duty because the “transfer failed to proceed as per your instructions” (according to section 15 of the act blah blah)
The solicitor had written a letter to them saying that WE had changed our minds about deal. This is utter crap of course.
I really hope dad has better luck explaining to Veteran affairs why he ‘gifted’ (as in paid out our loan) $155k to my bro and me than I had with Centrelink. Centrelink refused my appliction for Parenting Payment because the loan was seen as an asset. They informed me that we possibly took out the loan to give my father money and so it was viewed as an asset. Yeah right. Real logic to that.
i spose there is a legal ombudsman or something but frankly I am tired of thinking about it and attempting to fight beaurocrats.
cheers milly
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