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look at investing across multiple properties, I have made the mistake of tying to much cash up in 1 property
in 5 years from now you don't know where that property value or rent return may be or bank rules…
Hey Crest I am looking at a leasehold motel coastal no food
11 units pool etc, returning $140.000 new 25 year lease
I have read all your posts and I see you mentioning banks lending on 30% for leaseholds is this still the case?
I have around $200,000 equity they are asking $480,000 for the motel that we are interested in.
I would go with houses unless your buying a block or the unit shows positive after all fees Including the body corp and was close to say brisbane cbd etc
luke86 wrote:I was in Hervey Bay last year and personally would not buy an IP there. Walking around town there are a mountain of large vacant blocks with old for sale signs up. Many (if not most) of these blocks are DA approved for townhouse/apartment developments so you would have to wonder if the area was such a great spot for development then why are these blocks still sitting on the market years later?One other thing that would be a worry is that there are lots of retirees in town (due to the good climate and cheap housing), and not a great deal in the way of industry and employment opportunities. I think that employed people drive property prices higher and help a market to outperform the average, and don't see this happening with the economy and demographics in Hervey Bay.
I am not up to speed with the local market but these were my observations. I did think it was a nice spot for a holiday though.
Cheers,
Lukecouncil are campaigning riving live here work there campaigns their have been a few new FIFO companies come in a new small one in the last week
http://frasercoast.qld.gov.au/web/fraser-coast-opportunities/resource-sector
Aldershot coal mine waiting for the green light from Derm and have been for a little while now
Tiaro waiting to see what happens with colton mine
new 100 Million hospital
new school child care centre and supermarkets planned for Dundowran Beach
which is a few mins from Toogoom. although there are currently 2 schools including a high school less then 13mins down the road at the moment.
Destination Q announced by Campbell Newman Hervey bay
http://www.frasercoastchronicle.com.au/story/2012/04/04/premier-unveils-tourism-strategy/
current Mining explorations
http://www.blueenergy.com.au/_dbase_…te%20Final.pdf
http://www.guildfordcoal.com.au/kolan.aspx
http://www.northernenergy.com.au
Other developments
800 million Marina Redevelopment
120 Million whyndham resort
http://frasercoast.qld.gov.au/web/fraser-coast-opportunities/tourism-opportunities
Solar farm
We have done our research while I agree the market may still be depressed I don't think the Fraser coast region should be over looked
if I was looking last year I may not have been interested as there were for sale signs everywhere and the market was down over easter there were for sale signs however most of them said SOLD which it hasn't been like that in the Fraser coast area for many years and the easter picked up quite a bit more then last year.
another interesting fact that agents were seeking more for rental properties with quality tenants, not the norm for a long time.
those developments on the esplanade have been etc have been sold recently.So to recap I can get a property large 4 bed 2 bath 200 Metres from the beach with transport to town and schools daily or a 13min drive
it already takes us 20mins to drive the kids to school where we are now and no beach
council have a live here work there campaign several projects being investigated for mining including 1 simply waiting for Enviro red tape <moderator: delete language>
Several flights to the Bowen basin at least contracted to a company in Moranbah
Tourism on an upward trend for the area it seems
renters moving there in droves it would seem as they are priced out of other marketspositive spin by Newman and abbot which have both visited the area recently
several projects in town and more schools supermarkets planned for the suburbs such as Dundowran craignish Toogoom etc
I am looking to hold for 5 years BTW not make an instant gain while I don't have a crystal ball everything seems to have a positive outlook for the area long term and of course retirees will have to go somewhere if all else fails…
The other coastal areas we looked was the cap coast however the same type of houses are 450k plus with quite a bit less in the way of shopping entertainment etc compared to Hervey Bay seems I could buy 2 in the fraser coast for the price of one at the cap coast.
waydo77 wrote:seems like more of a retirement suburb? 15-20 kms from schools from shops is a fair distance for renters. only found a little convenience store nearby.I would personally not be relying on a couple of mines, I’d be looking to see what other projects are on the cards or other established industry in the region.
I wouldnt take those valuations on onthehouse as gospel either, recently had my house valued at 370k and onthehouse valuation says 240k to 285k?
Interesting I have done a few rpdata valuations and theyhave been pretty close with onthehouse Values
as for whats’t going on in the area we have researched quite thoroughly and have a few friends working in Gladstone Moranbah and Blackwater either fifo or dido from the Fraser coast just check out how many are from hervey bay in the MAC camps might be surprised and that’s before any mines have opened which four are on the cards one waiting the green light from derm honestly moranbah gladstone etc are overheated markets the property we are looking at will be cashflow positive from day 1 few hundred meters from white sandy beaches there is a supermarket just down the road all be it a small one at craignish and daily transport to the cbd and the schools are alot closer then 15-20k
There is also the marina and quite a few other developments in Hervey bay and Maryborough area Including the decentralization from the cbd to hervey bay as one of the key area because of it’s current high unemployment rate.
we work in the resource sector and I would rather spend 270k in the Fraser coast region for a massive home then some 40 year old fibro in a town relying heavily on the resource sector only.
I know the area is all doom and gloom atm and the properties I am looking at sold for 400k in the peak… without any mine going to happen
the property I posted block originally sold for $172500 the house seems quite abit over 20squares I would guess approx cost was around $200,000 so total completed $372500
sounds like a good retirement spot to me in the mean time I am sure I can round up some tenants that enjoy fishing having a few quite ones overlooking the water at the local watering hole with daily transport to Hervey Bay and several schools 12minutes sure as heck beats a 3hour drive to the beach or 2hours for any decent shopping lol
a quick search on Gumtree shows there are renters already looking and willing to pay $350 Now we just have to get the banks to agree.
moxi10 wrote:JT7 wrote:crazya wrote:Also here's a tip for those looking to invest in the mining towns, after speaking to a mortgage broker (Mortage Choice in G), unless you have 20% deposit, you won't be able to leverage into these places. The LMI originators won't go near them and they do not take into consideration the high rent return. Effectively its a risk profile attached to these places in the view of the banks/LMI companies. (Any mortgage brokers/bankers on this forum that can confirm this advice?)If this is the case shame really, as there are some good positive cashflow deals in Blackwater from my reseach!!
Don't know about this one crazya I've been getting finance through MB on this forum at 90%LVR + in mining town. Might just be an issue with retail MB's like Mortgage Choice. I think 90%LVR in towns like even Moranbah isn't such an issue. Jack
My experience seemed to confirm what crazya was told. In August 2011 I had a contract to purchase an off-the-plan unit in Middlemount. I tried for a 95% loan, but was offered a max of 85%, and was told that valuations were difficult there, largely because of few comparable sales. If the unit had been existing rather than off-the-plan, it may have been possible to obtain 95%, but I don't know for sure. The development had unexplained lengthy delays, and the vendor had serious communication issues, so I used the finance clause to terminate the contract.
I later tried to purchase an existing house in Dysart, and in spite of the fact that my mortgage broker tried two banks with two different loan mortgage insurers, I was only offered 80% loans. My mortgage broker then "felt out" other lenders without making full applications, the feedback on the potential to obtain greater than 80% finance was negative.
Jack, I would appreciate a private message with details about your mortgage broker, if you don't mind sharing that information.
Can I have the MB details to please I was approved for one in Moranbah and then they changed thier mind that home has now gone up around 80k since christmas LVR was 20%
Qlds007 wrote:Again to correct1. Anz will only do 95% lvr for existing customers who have had a retail lending product with the Bank for more than 6 months. (as per page 63 of the Anz Operations Lending Manual).
2. Anz will use 100% of family payment, parenting allowance and sole parent pension including disability support pension and disability wage supplement etc etc (as per page 51 of the Anz Operations Lending Manual).
Cheers
Yours in Finance
I see carers allowance does not say it is counted which is the major portion of our income atm, I have talked to ANZ lending managers several times and there response as soon as you mention DSP and carers is NO, maybe they need to read there manual becuase I have been told the same thing by lenders in Rockhampton Brisbane and other areas.
do you actually have any pensioners that use your services or are you just saying from thoery in that case we have been told we can lend up to 4mill in blue chip suburbs…
Qlds007 wrote:This will be my last response to this post as it is going nowhere1. Sorry CBA do still take Pension income into consideration. You might check their website to confirm this.
Also as i have mentioned previously under NCCP there is no difference in the amount you can service based on PAYG income or disability income and anyone who tells you to the contrary has no idea of legislation and responsible lending requirements.
2. Nick at NAB Mackay might be a nice chap but he has no authority to approve a deal. Mackay approvals are normally done here in Brisbane and he would have no sway over a deal than any other NAB manager or Broker. NAB with effect from this week have integrated Valex into their valuation system so valuers are allocated randomly. You can still use a panel valuer and cover the cost yourself.
Cheers
Yours in Finance
CBA count certain parts of pension income only and bought in reforms I know Becuase I had 130k with them and after reforms our capacity went from $150,000 to $80,000. this year…
They certainly wouldn’t lend on the type of property in Moranbah, we tried.
ANZ do 5% lend in Moranbah NAB look will do 20% and we were talking to Sydney as suggested in my first post.
ANZ have never since we were on DSP since 2002 ever lent to anyone on DSP for home loans CBA however were one of the only banks that would touch us back then.
CBA used to count disability income they do not anymore I have done a dozen deals with CBA they changed there terms at the start of this year and will not lend to anyone on pension income and lost a lot of customers we were one of them.
Not sure about the credit score and NAB obviously take pension income we talked to cba and moved to NAB becuase according to CBA they no longer lend to disability pensioners, and told us to pretty much get a job or we don’t want to know you if I could get a job I bloody would they don’t give out DSP to just anyone as people seem to think.
I have another valuation which shows 302k however the main sticking point was the lender is worried they we won’t be able to re lease the property in 2 years time,302k was done back in July and there 285k val was done n June, for another property we looked at.
I would hazard a guess this was there excuse so they didn’t have to lend to pensioners and even when all banks supposedly lent to pensioners “ANZ never did”
You loose I think it was around 30k of your lending capacity because your on a pension exact same income in paid employment and you can get 30k more now if you think about it logically which one is more secure the person that has been in a job for 3months has to drive to work everyday and workers smoke drink etc the same if not more then pensioners “I do neither so that’s another myth”.
That can be sacked tomorrow or the person who is trying to raise a family knows how to budget as they have gone from being employed to disabled so you learn to budget quick smart.
or the young bloke that has no kids that has been employed for at least 3months and really doesn’t have the I have to pay my bills or go back to mum and dads when your 30+ with a wife and kids this isn’t an option, not to mention you can be sacked Tommorrow
after purchasing the property we were going to purchase for the cost of 699k that comes with a 2 year lease to a company
our income would be at least $104000 our equity even taking the low end value at 285k is 228k although I would love to know who they think can build a 190square meter home with all the upgrades for this on a block that cost a minimum of 135k,
for under 300k.anyway enough venting I’ll post here in 6months once we have got rid of this dog property and moved forward I was really hoping to be able to do something on dsp and write a book on this as there is no information as how to invest if your disabled plenty if your on single parents etc but most of these lead to one thing get a job first this isn’t a option so we will use our cash to buy an income some how or do a flip or 2 with cash.
Qlds007 wrote:Obviously cannot comment as we dont have any real data whatsoever however considering you mention you have been to NAB / CBA private lending etc etc it could be something simple as a Credit score problem.All lenders change credit policy as they go so as has been mentioned NAB are not alone.
Under NCCP pension income is considered the same as any other income so this would not be the reason the loan has been declined.
Cheers
Yours in Finance
This is the reason the NAB did a backflip and told us this is the reason:
“Lending manager in the Sydney office has done some research and seems to think that, there will be thousands of houses to be built in a town that is land locked.”
Reason from local broker: pension income won’t touch us
Reason from: CBA do not count Pension Income
Our credit score is excellent we have just ou PPOR which we owe 130k on worth aprrox $347000 though NAB also seem to think this is only worth 285k which we also disagree with as it would costs approx $347000+ in todays terms.
We also have a 14k unsecured loan which was for our car
I think it’s my Wifes carer’s pension they are not counting as myself and my daughter are both on DSP
anyway doesn’t matter markets finally starting to move after years where we are so will get out our money and reacess
Qlds007 wrote:Find myself asking why the post was made in the first place if you have already decided to sell your PPOR.Cheers
Yours in Finance
Simply venting and to let others know what a pain in the neck it has been if others are using NAB preapproving then changing there mind in 24hours is simply unbelievable.
Mate if we could get the finance and move forward we would at wits end here, and people wonder why others stay on the pension only so much someone can take.Shape wrote:abcd1 wrote:the problem is the lending manager seems to think Moranbah willl get thousands of homes built soon.
We were told they don’t believe we would get 2k+ a week for a 4 bedder in Moranbah although the contract was subject to a lease agreement.We are just going to sit on our hands until we can sell our PPOR and get cash in the bank and will work something out from there.
Your going to sell your PPOR because of this one advice a NAB lending manager has given you….You must love this lending manager
Think i be wasting my time if i try to convince you that you def have more then this one option…Regards
MichaelWe also have tried a broker that deals with Moranbah properties we also have family in the area so no we haven’t just tried NAB we have also tried CBA private lending and other financial advisers and several brokers….
We are selling the PPOR to cash out why have 200k tied up which means we can only access 80% of it anyway when we can use that and not have to bother about the banks, 200k is 4 properties in some areas businesses without the scrutiny of the bank Renos flipping removal homes the 200k was from flipping so this isn’t our first step.
After trying for 3 years to use equity to get into investment properties businesses etc and get off the pension selling is the best option for our situation, so we can move forward.
Shape wrote:abcd1 wrote:Thanks for the helpful feedback we have tried the Broker route also as we are on pensions this doesn’t seem to be possible even with 200k equity guess will just have to wait until house is worth selling to do something.Sounds like you got a serviceability issue? having equity won’t help as you still can’t service the loan.
Being on a pension is not an issue, just depends if you have enough income to service the debt your after.
Regards
MichaelHi Michael the rent is 2k+ a week but NAB will only count half at $1000 weekly we were preapproved on the 2k a week rental income they changed there mind after doing some research, the problem is the lending manager seems to think Moranbah willl get thousands of homes built soon.
We were told they don’t believe we would get 2k+ a week for a 4 bedder in Moranbah although the contract was subject to a lease agreement.We are just going to sit on our hands until we can sell our PPOR and get cash in the bank and will work something out from there.
Thanks for the helpful feedback we have tried the Broker route also as we are on pensions this doesn’t seem to be possible even with 200k equity guess will just have to wait until house is worth selling to do something.
Derek wrote:2500 people – too small for me to even look at.A town that small is subject to the vagaries of the main industry, commercial activity or mine. A sneeze in that sector of the economy could result in a major knock to the town's economy and employment numbers.
Being a small town may also see additional finance hurdles you need to jump through. I woulld susupect mortage insurance is not available in Mt Morgan.
Hi Derek as it is 38klm from Rockhampton mortgage insurance is available as it is less then 50klm from a city
and there is 3000+ people in the area
Location
Mount Morgan is a town located in central Queensland, Australia. It is situated on the Dee River, 38 kilometres south of the city of Rockhampton, and is 680 kilometres north of the state capital, Brisbane. The Burnett Highway passes through the town and is an important gateway to the Bowen Basin region which is responsible for much of the state’s mining and natural resources related industries.
Mount Morgan is located 38 Kilometres South of the City of Rockhampton, 680 km’s north of Brisbane and is well positioned along the Fitzroy & Galillee Coal Basins.
Population and Demographics
Mount Morgan has an approx population of 3000 people and is a part of the Rockhampton Regional Council with a total area population of 115,000.
The Capricorn region of Central Queensland has experienced tremendous growth over the last few years driven primarily by the resource and mining boom. Major regional centres of Rockhampton and Gladstone have reflected this growth with population and property prices forcing residents to look for more affordable alternatives within close proximity. With Mount Morgan located 30 minutes from Rockhampton, it offers home owners & investors alike an opportunity to buy an affordable property offering opportunity for sustained capital growth on the back of the mine about to reopen. With only a handful of new building consents over the past ten years and the majority of housing consisting of up to 100 yr old MINER’S COTTAGES; quality accommodation in Mt Morgan is not just scarce it is non existent. Development of the area has only just begun with developers now realising the potential of the town and all it has to offer.
The story of Mount Morgan
The future growth and prosperity of Mount Morgan will be driven by 4 key areas which make the township unique within the region for its potential; Infrastructure, Economic Opportunity, Lifestyle, and Geography.
Infrastructure
The platform of infrastructure that Mount Morgan presently enjoys is far more superior to its closest rival residential area – Gracemere and includes:
Primary School
High School
Hospital
Day Care Centres
Aged Care Facilities
Community Recreation Facilities including bowls, tennis, swimming and sports grounds
Pristine Recreational Dam that also supplies the town with clean water.
This level of infrastructure not only means that Mount Morgan has more to offer its residents than Gracemere, but also means that it’s potential to adequately handle the growth we are predicting is also superior.?Government Social Infrastructure Projects
Better Regions Program – $176 Million Dollars
The Mount Morgan Promotion and Development Board (MMPAD) have also developed strategic plans to tap into available Government Funding for further infrastructure improvements. The MMPAD has identified Mount Morgan as an ideal candidate for funding from the 176 million dollar Better Regions program, which the Government has created in an effort to deliver on its election promise to provide regional Australia with much needed community facilities and services.
MMPAD will push hard for funding from this program for infrastructure such as;
Revitalisation of town’s main streets
Multi-purpose community and resource centres
Major sport and recreational venues
Community transport infrastructure
As the Government looks to create jobs, and shore up the economy with its Nation Building scheme, where better to improve infrastructure than in a township with as much economic growth potential as Mount Morgan.Economic Opportunity
The township itself has enormous potential for economic growth through the following areas;
Tourism
Mount Morgan enjoys A number of key historic attractions making Mount Morgan a unique destination; Heritage listed gold mine and important palaeontology discoveries. Recognised historic township with many heritage listed buildings and monuments. Caravan Parks can cater for large caravans/motor-homes; Golf Course
Mining
The reopening of the Mount Morgan mine to extract gold, copper and pyrites identified in a 643 ha registered mining lease surrounding the township, will of course mean that the employees of the mine and associated service industries will drive up the demand for housing in the region. This project is scheduled to run 12 years, providing, and especially with the current gold trends, an initial springboard for rapid growth, which, when the project is completed will have opened the doors for sustained growth and service to further CQ industries that the township of Mount Morgan can both drive and benefit from.
Geography
The geographical location and the established social and physical infrastructure of the Rockhampton district make it ideally placed to capitalise on further developments in the following industries as they grow in our region;
Mining
Agricultural
Manufacturing
Utilities
Construction
Transportation
Communications
Service
Tourism
Retail
This potential for growth in the Central Queensland region was recognised by Professor Ross Garnaut in his study “Australia and the North Asian Ascendancy”, as each of the key elements outlined in his economic strategy is present within the Rockhampton Region. As Rockhampton grows, and people search for affordable housing without sacrificing lifestyle, Synergy Mount Morgan, with access to more facilities than is offered at Gracemere will be well placed to capitalise on the growth that the Rockhampton Region will and is enjoying.Lifestyle
Residents can choose from large family home blocks or semi-rural lots as their base to enjoy the small close knit community lifestyle, gatherings at the local recreational dam and regular craft markets, with the security enjoyed by all of the other facilities identified in this document such as the hospital. Not to mention of course, that residents escape the heat that Rockhampton has to offer, being always 4-6 degrees cooler due to its elevation.
All the while Mount Morgan is only 25 minutes away from the hub of Rockhampton for work, an hour from the southern Mining communities or a pleasant 60 minutes drive away from the pristine beaches of the Capricorn Coast for play on the weekends.
Summary
Our meticulous research into the area and common sense dictate that Mount Morgan is the next logical step. It is the next boom town, and the timing with the current economic climate could not be better. Crisis or not, as outlined above, Rockhampton and Mount Morgan will grow, and with that growth will come demand.
Projects and Proposals
Mount Morgan Gold Mine – Redevelopment and re opening mine again. ( Recently acquired by Hong Kong Consortium – Value – TBA
Better Regions Program – $176mill – Government funded initiative to upgrade and improve facilities and services with the area
The Eulogie Project – located 23km South – Located close to the World Class Bulk Tonnage Infrastructure and is a mine similar to the Hawkwood Iron Ore Project
Panorama Ridge – 500 Residential Lots – 500 Lots Adjoining the soon to be expanded Mount Morgan Golf Course – $60mill Gross realisation
Mount Morgan Hospital upgrade – $14mill – Already commenced
Galilee & Bowen Basin – 70,000 Jobs and Mount Morgan will get the flow on effect of these latest projects and expansions.
Pricing & Rental Profi
With a huge under supply of rentals & quality housing the stats are about to be re written and at the time of writing this report only 5 houses were available in the entire town to rent.
The town is screaming out for quality accommodation with the average rental still only $200 – $250 pw but comprising only of cottages and quaint country houses. Mine or industry workers are actively seeking better quality housing so all of the key factors for property growth have emerged and we see some instant equity available here for the investors that jump in early.
The Average house price in 2008 was $306,000 and has seen little shift till this year and we see it 60% undervalued when compared to this nearest neighbour Gracemere. With several key residential estate’s about to be brought on and the re opening of the Gold Mine these past figures will soon be old news.
shoooshoo wrote:hi Jasini dont know the details unfortunatley. but thanks for the information. do you know what the LVR required borrowing amount is in blackwater/dysart?
depends on the lender NAB is 20% for dysart,middlemount not sure of other lenders
simple wrote:luke86 wrote:I think you will find that property repossessions are relatively low compared to other developed nations around the world, and by no means high compared to historical levels in Australia. No need to hit the panic button.Cheers,
LukeAgree, my post reads like a bit of over reaction.
This is probably a result of been frustrated with people out there keep throwing 'property double in value every 7 years' staff
There are many houses for sale now, a lot more than 2 years ago, but not to many sold by banks as pepos.
I think in 3-4 years from now it actually may be a best time to buy, if you got a job and deposit that isI agree and am one of those buying in qeensland nows a great time to buy when everyone is scared
Derek wrote:Know what you are saying – just doing some feasibilitty on a WA mining town for investors with ~17% return. Making sure the fundamentals are all right first.So far looking good.
Hi derek would you mind sending me some more info on these 17% return properties?
Thanks Derek yes size my concern also it’s a service town for several mines
German Creek
Central Colliery
Foxleigh
Southern Colliery
Middlemount Mine
Bundooraas far as the NAB is concerned they will lend there on a 80% emerald looks like a better option however I haven’t found the returns as high as Middlemount Dysart Moranbah.
my main concern is that a lot of the mine workers are housed in camps, and the lease of less then 12 months which says the company can pull out at the end of lease and I’ll be stuck with a huge debt and no renters.
I thought a few people here may work there or own property in the area.
Back To The Drawing Board.
