All Topics / Finance / Seeking debt servicing clarification

Viewing 13 posts - 1 through 13 (of 13 total)
  • Profile photo of fxdaemonfxdaemon
    Participant
    @fxdaemon
    Join Date: 2013
    Post Count: 114

    Hi experts

    I have revisited the topic of debt servicing recently doing more readings and speaking to my broker but I am not able to
    get the definitive answer I am looking for.

    From what I’ve read and been told, typical servicing considers 30% of gross PAYG salary and 80% of IP rent income.
    However, I can’t find details on if the two components are being assessed one after another or just prorataly.

    Example:
    John with annual gross income $100K planning to purchase IP of $800K with gross annual income of $29K.
    If the borrowing is 80% ($640K) at interest rate of 5%, annual interest payment is $32K, so resulting in a
    typical negative gearing scenario of -$3K. How does lender assess the overall debt servicing? Is it done as follow:

    – 30% of $100K = $30K
    – 80% of $29K = $14.5K
    – Total income = $44.5K
    – Total income – interest payment = $44.5K – $32K = $12.5K, so all good

    What if the scenario is positively geared and full interest payment is covered by 80% of the rent?
    Will the PAYG salary still be required as part of assessment and more importantly will buying such an IP have
    impact on (ie reduces) future borrowing power although none of the PAYG salary is needed to service the loan interest?

    Thanks,
    FXD

    Profile photo of Richard TaylorRichard Taylor
    Participant
    @qlds007
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 12,024

    Rule of thumb with most lenders:

    Net monthly income + 80% of Gross Rent

    Less

    * Living Expenses assessed (dependent on the size of family. Lenders use a minimum of their own preset scale or your declared amount whichever is higher).
    * 3% of Credit card limit.
    * Existing Personal Loan repayments.
    * Existing loans based on a P & I loan at a rate of say 7.25% (Going to be a lot higher than you might actually be paying on an interest only basis at say 4.5%).

    = net monthly surplus

    Divide by P & I factor at say 7.25%

    This will give you a borrowing amount.

    Cheers

    Yours in Finance

    Richard Taylor | Australia's leading private lender

    Profile photo of Jamie MooreJamie Moore
    Participant
    @jamie-m
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 5,069

    Calculating max borrowing is quite complex in this new post APRA world of lending – especially for those with a few IPs under their belt.

    Best bet is to get a decent broker to look into it for you – Richard above would be a good start.

    Cheers

    Jamie

    Jamie Moore | Pass Go Home Loans Pty Ltd
    http://www.passgo.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Mortgage Broker assisting clients Australia wide Email: [email protected]

    Profile photo of fxdaemonfxdaemon
    Participant
    @fxdaemon
    Join Date: 2013
    Post Count: 114

    Thanks guys.

    I am not good at scoping or phrasing my questions well usually.

    The main question to clarify is assuming I have sufficient equity,
    will continuing buying of cashflow positive properties impact/reduce my
    future borrowing power from the lenders’ perspective since all the
    properties paying for themselves anyway.

    Thanks
    FXD

    Profile photo of Richard TaylorRichard Taylor
    Participant
    @qlds007
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 12,024

    FXD,

    It will reduce your borrowing capacity over time due to the sensitised rate used by most lenders and the fact they discount the gross rent.

    Cheers

    Yours in Finance

    Richard Taylor | Australia's leading private lender

    Profile photo of Ethan TimorEthan Timor
    Participant
    @ethantimor
    Join Date: 2016
    Post Count: 282

    To elaborate on what Richard said, although a property could be positively geared, the banks may treat it as negatively geared by assuming the actual interest rate is higher and/or adding a buffer (20% for example on top of your actual payments) and/or that you are paying P&I although you are only paying IO and/or take only 65-80% of the rent into account as your income.

    Why are they doing all this? To stress test the borrowers ahead of giving them the loan.

    If, however, you jump through all these hoops, adding positively geared properties should increase your borrowing power (although then some lenders bring other factors to the equations, such as wanting more net available income and/or calculating the rents at only 6% yield etc. yeah, lots of fun 😂 Which means to me that having a good broker on your team is probably more important today than ever before).

    Hope this helps?

    Cheers,
    Ethan

    Ethan Timor | Aligned Finance Pty Ltd
    http://www.alignedfinance.com.au/
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Active Investor & Broker; Based in Northern NSW, servicing Australia wide; Author of '34 Proven Ways to Maximise Your Borrowing Power' (download free from our website)

    Profile photo of fxdaemonfxdaemon
    Participant
    @fxdaemon
    Join Date: 2013
    Post Count: 114

    Thanks guys all your comments help.

    It seems the reliable way is to have lots of money to begin with (:-)) so you can buy multiple properties at low LVR
    and even at 10% interest rate, they are all cashflow positive :-).

    The other challenge that you have mentioned is that with the rental income the lenders will only take 65%-80% but will
    any lender lend based on rental income alone without a PAYG type income or is this where low-doc comes in?

    Seems to me that if I want to go full time investing in property (no development), I need to structure myself such that
    all rental income should go into one company from which I draw a PAYG salary. So when I go to the lenders to organise finance
    for the next purchase, I can “proudly” show my stable & constant PAYG salary plus new property income to make the application
    straight forward?

    Am I thinking along the right direction? What kind of expert or consultant I should speak to? My accountant has no clue
    when it comes to questions related to full time property investing “business” :-)

    Thanks again.

    FXD

    Profile photo of Ethan TimorEthan Timor
    Participant
    @ethantimor
    Join Date: 2016
    Post Count: 282

    Hey FXD,

    Yes, having lots of money always helps 😂

    As a side note, I always calculate gearing on 100% of the costs, regardless of the LVR, because my money could work somewhere else instead (for example, offset another mortgage).

    The lender will look at your salary and at the rental of the existing and new properties. They will take into account 100% of your salary but only part of the rental. This is for prime and for low doc. The more income you show, the better, it’s just that not all of it is recognised (for example, some lenders recognise 100% of commissions, others only 80% etc).

    Buying via a company (so that the company gets the rental money) has its own extra costs AND if your payslips are from a company you own, the lender will want financial reports of that company and will discover that the income is derived from rental. That’s not the way I would go.

    The experts to talk to about such matters are finance/mortgage brokers. Situations like yours are perhaps the main benefit we bring to the table. I would suggest considering a broker that walks the talk, i. e. an investor as well. It helps when they know first hand what you’re talking about, I reckon 😎

    Hope this helps?

    Cheers,
    Ethan

    Ethan Timor | Aligned Finance Pty Ltd
    http://www.alignedfinance.com.au/
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Active Investor & Broker; Based in Northern NSW, servicing Australia wide; Author of '34 Proven Ways to Maximise Your Borrowing Power' (download free from our website)

    Profile photo of fxdaemonfxdaemon
    Participant
    @fxdaemon
    Join Date: 2013
    Post Count: 114
    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    No lender will lend baeed on rental income only where the NCCP applies as it would be a breach of the act.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of fxdaemonfxdaemon
    Participant
    @fxdaemon
    Join Date: 2013
    Post Count: 114

    NCCP

    Thanks Terryw, I assume you mean for resi lending only, right?

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    Actually I am not sure. I think the NCCP may apply to any natural person borrower.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of Ethan TimorEthan Timor
    Participant
    @ethantimor
    Join Date: 2016
    Post Count: 282

    NCCP

    Thanks Terryw, I assume you mean for resi lending only, right?

    Yes.

    “The NCC applies to credit contracts entered into on or after 1 July 2010 where:

    * the lender is in the business of providing credit
    * a charge is made for providing the credit
    * the debtor is a natural person or strata corporation
    * the credit is provided:
    * for personal, domestic or household purposes, or
    * to purchase, renovate or improve residential property for investment purposes, or to refinance credit previously provided for this purpose.

    http://asic.gov.au/regulatory-resources/credit/credit-general-conduct-obligations/national-credit-code/

    Ethan Timor | Aligned Finance Pty Ltd
    http://www.alignedfinance.com.au/
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Active Investor & Broker; Based in Northern NSW, servicing Australia wide; Author of '34 Proven Ways to Maximise Your Borrowing Power' (download free from our website)

Viewing 13 posts - 1 through 13 (of 13 total)

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