All Topics / Help Needed! / Is 10+ Properties Really Possible in 12 months?

Viewing 20 posts - 1 through 20 (of 21 total)
  • Profile photo of Stevie2013Stevie2013
    Participant
    @stevie2013
    Join Date: 2013
    Post Count: 16

    Hey all, have just signed up & very interested in trying to get answers on the magical idea of buying multiple properties in a short time.  I keep seeing on websites, buyers agents reviews “I’ve bought 10+ properties within 12 months” etc. While interest rates are at all time lows & the market rebounding now seems like an ideal time to acquire quality property.

    Some basic background, I’m working overseas & have enough for a 20% deposit ready to go on a purchase in the high 200k range. I have a couple other cash flow neutral properties but serviceability is the issue going forward due to my 50k salary, which is why I’m required to keep the bank at risk ease with a 20% deposit keeping the LVR below 80%. Not to mention the banks have tightened lending for expat purchases. Intention is towards a 10-15 year plan of continually purchasing cash flow properties that have potential of good capital growth. Idea of course being at year 10 to start selling off first property to pay down others etc until over time I’m left with a handful of properties to fund an income.

    My question is how in this market, unless of course you have a million dollars sitting nicely in the bank, which I don’t… can people afford to pay 20% deposit, + upward of 5% buying costs, potentially paying a buyers agent 10k to do the deal (for example 70-75k purchasing costs for a 250k property) Lets then say for example you acquired the property 10-20k under market value or value added with a reno.. which I’m assuming is not enough equity to do much with straight away. So how can you then magically find another 70+k for the next purchase? Then magically do it 10 times within 12 months?? Would I like 10, yes but 2 seems realistically attainable.

    Also hopefully someone can answer, but according to some postings it takes 3 months & upward of 12 months before the bank will re-value a purchased property to include the possible equity which then would of course make it harder to quickly buy again? Any help would be greatly appreciated!

    Profile photo of Colin RiceColin Rice
    Participant
    @fms
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 338

    This would be achieved with considerable equity and high disposable income. 

    Colin Rice | CDR Finance
    http://cdrfinance.com.au/
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Perth Based Mortgage Broker - Investment Property Finance Specialist | E: [email protected]

    Profile photo of FreckleFreckle
    Blocked
    @freckle
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 1,680

    You can if you take someone like Nathan Birch's approach. Buy burnt out or vandalised bangers for sub 10k in regional areas and refurb them for a reasonable equity gain. Wash Rinse Repeat.

    Go and look at his Youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/binvested

    I don't necessarily endorse Nathan's approach. It's not for everyone.

    Profile photo of CatalystCatalyst
    Participant
    @catalyst
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 1,404

    Buying burnt out properties are not Nathan Birch's approach. He has done very few burnt out properties actually in the scheme of his 150 properties. He did a few burnt out and vandalised properties as he was bored I think. He's moved on to bigger and better things. He never did like getting his hands dirty. I love his one that he moved in to and did a video series.

    It is possible but as FMS said you need equity to start (not necessarily a very high income).

    The strategy usually involves buying under market properties and doing a reno (sometimes it may be one paint so low cost). Then get revalued (yes this can be difficult in under 6 months with some banks). So you may not buy 12 in the first year but once you have a couple and they have the equity to withdraw you can ramp up the buying.

    You don't need a massive income if you concentrate on getting good yield./ This doesn't necessarily mean you have to forgo CG. If you buy a property under market and do a reno the yield is higher. If it's neutral CF then the bank won't have a problem with servicability. 

    My plan was to buy one a year but it gets addictive and you just keep buying. As soon as one settled I got pre approval for the next. Even if I didn't want to buy straight away I had it ready just in case something came up.

    I know several people that have bought over 5 properties a year. None are on high incomes. One young couple moved in with their mum to save money. They bought more than 10 in a year.

    If you want a big portfolio just buy one then keep going. You don't need to say "I want to buy 5 this year". It starts snowballing once you find a winning (for you) strategy. Everyone is different. I have friends that say "OH I wouldn't buy a house out there". Now they are asking me how I can afford to retire early. LOL Cashflow is King!

    Profile photo of Sure HarvestSure Harvest
    Member
    @sure-harvest
    Join Date: 2013
    Post Count: 15

    Hi Steve,

    You got to have the right team around you to ensure you leverage well and perhaps look to play lenders off each other. Just out of interest which country are you working in at the moment?

    Profile photo of FreckleFreckle
    Blocked
    @freckle
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 1,680
    JacM wrote:
    I work with several clients who, like yourself, are working overseas and therefore do not have access to all the same mortgage products as those residing here in Australia. However it comes down to careful property selection. I ha e not had a problem with consistently finding solid property that yields well, thus allowing my clients to keep buying.

    You're starting to sound like Nigel…. scary!

    Profile photo of TheFinanceShopTheFinanceShop
    Participant
    @thefinanceshop
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 1,271

    Why do you need to buy 10 properties in 1 year or however many years? Focus on quality of product (even cheaper properties) not quantity. 

    TheFinanceShop | Elite Property Finance
    http://www.elitepropertyfinance.com
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Residential and Commercial Brokerage

    Profile photo of wilko1wilko1
    Participant
    @wilko1
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 510

    Multiple properties even of low value (using a buy renovate revalue strategy) lets you produce greater on paper equity (IE house bought at 100k, spend 10k, revalued at 140k but could only potentially be sold for say 130-135k). Which lets you leap frog quicker into more expensive quality houses.

    Profile photo of wilko1wilko1
    Participant
    @wilko1
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 510

    Plus I'm going to say it. That you get ALOT of motivation when you are halfway through the year and you have already bought and renovated 4 houses. It changes what you think is possible.

    Profile photo of Jamie MooreJamie Moore
    Participant
    @jamie-m
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 5,069

    LVR's play a part here too. If there's LMI involved (which it doesn't  like from the OP's post) then lender selection becomes even more important -as you don't want to reach exposure limits with either LMI provider too early.

    All in all, it's possible – but as mentioned above, don't focus on the quantity of properties -the quality of the investment is more important. 

    Cheers

    Jamie

    Jamie Moore | Pass Go Home Loans Pty Ltd
    http://www.passgo.com.au
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    Mortgage Broker assisting clients Australia wide Email: [email protected]

    Profile photo of Stevie2013Stevie2013
    Participant
    @stevie2013
    Join Date: 2013
    Post Count: 16

    Thanks for the replies & responses guys, a guess more of a relief to know that I’m on the right path by steadily buying quality property rather than focusing on quantity, then using savings & unlocking equity when values go up… patience isn’t my best characteristic but I guess I’ll sleep better with the LVR under 80% & properties taking care of themselves than getting in over my head. I know I regretted years ago not buying & just ensuring with the upcoming perfect storm of rising values I don’t get left behind.

    Yep Catalyst I’m trying to find that “winning” strategy, & agree that cash flow with GC potential is king.. doing my best to build that snowball! Sure Harvest I have a good team here in Hong Kong with broker & accountancy & have been great assisting with loans, serviceability due to the stupid high aussie dollar is what’s causing issues. Wish I had of bought here as Hong Kong prices have doubled in 3 years but to get into the market here as an investor requires 50% deposit + gov fees. I feel for the Hong Kong locals here, low wages & no chance of buying into property as the cashed up mainlanders have bought up big pushing prices through the roof, looks like there starting to do the same thing in Sydney. 

    I’d love to be able to buy & renovate from the other side of the world but makes a lot more sense & to utilize a buyers agent for the time being, hard part is going to be the 10k buyers fee each time I purchase.

    Anyway this may be for a future post but maybe you can confirm my plans further… Last year I bought a corner block in Nth st marys on 690sq, original plan was for chasing yield with a granny flat but after researching it seems I’m better off from a GC perspective leaving it as & redirecting funds elsewhere. It’s zoned 2B therefore being possible to put a duplex on which I was thinking would be great in a few years? Or I wonder if the council would ever allow subdividing this size block? The house sits nicely in the front half of the block.

    Cheers all & hope we’re all enjoying your Saturday night!

    Profile photo of Jacqui MiddletonJacqui Middleton
    Participant
    @jacm
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 2,539

    I work with several clients who, like yourself, are working overseas and therefore do not have access to all the same mortgage products as those residing here in Australia. However it comes down to careful property selection. I have not had a problem with consistently finding solid property that yields well, thus allowing my clients to keep buying.

    Jacqui Middleton | Middleton Buyers Advocates
    http://www.middletonbuyersadvocates.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    VIC Buyers' Agents for investors, home buyers & SMSFs.

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    I would say that for the average person 10 properties in 12 months is NOT possible. One, two or a few maybe possible if the person has substantial equity. The most that I have seen, recently post GFC, is 6 over 2 years.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of JpcashflowJpcashflow
    Participant
    @jpcashflow
    Join Date: 2007
    Post Count: 575

    Hi Steve,

    Hope you are well?

    Anything is possible but it all depends on the following, how much equity you have, cash and investing experience.

    For the time being, ask you self this why do you need to buy 10 in one year? Why not start with one or two and then build from there.

    Investing takes allot of hard work, patience and precession.  

    For me personally I have a small property portfolio that is doing quite well for me and over the last two years my goals have changed, My PPOR is almost paid off and my other IP has a very small loan of 130K and the house has been valued at 400K.

    Some would suggest access equity any buy more property, but for now I would rather have a low loan to value ratio.

    There are allot of ways to invest, so have a look at all the possible ways and choose a strategy that fits you.

    Also looking at your numbers this is why I am not buying property at the moment, Most people talk about high yields but to me if your rent does not cover your repayments and property cost why would you invest your money in a assets that just breaks even or makes a loss?

    Jpcashflow | JP Financial Group
    http://www.jpfinancialgroup.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Your first port of call in finance :)

    Profile photo of Mick CMick C
    Participant
    @shape
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 1,099
    TheFinanceShop wrote:
    Why do you need to buy 10 properties in 1 year or however many years? Focus on quality of product (even cheaper properties) not quantity. 

    ^ Sage advice. Quality over quantity – it's not a race lol.

    Regarding buying x number of properties in a short period of time, it's only possible with a massive amount of equity built up over a number of years with a good foundation property- the only way to consistently bring forward even a 10% deposit for each purchase is via equity only – cash is simply not sustainable. Having an high income is important but really secondary as it can be made up over time with increasing rent and also buying at the right yield.

    Positive cash flow tends too be the favor of the year; but don't forget a mixture of at least one good capital growth investment or PPOR is equally as important for a balanced portfolio as this CG property is normally the one that determine how many properties you can afford too buy moving forward as it should be your foundation property for "Equity"  ( not saying CF have no CG…but limited and usually slower CG)

    I settled on my 4th property purchase for this year on the 30th of September, and in the process of waiting for settlement on 3 more ( Mid and end of oct – Nov) – so yes buying x number of properties in a short period is possible…but i was only able to achieve this because i have 2 properties that i  bought in 2007 and 2004, both have gone up in value -considerably ( equity). Note till this year, i haven't bought a property since 2007 ( because of serviceability issues/ new business) – so it's really not a race all about timing based on your current position and strategy.

    Personally i prefer too buy in an increasing market ( CF properties) – as it converts too quick equity after purchase; even if im buying 5-10% more then compared too 6-12 month ago and for an depressed market i focus on CG properties. 

    Mick C | Shape Home Loans
    http://www.shapehomeloans.com.au/
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    Same Banks. Better Rates. Served With a Passion.

    Profile photo of Stevie2013Stevie2013
    Participant
    @stevie2013
    Join Date: 2013
    Post Count: 16

    Thanks Michael & Johann, Definitely agree staying comfortable within the LVR is important.. & who knows what financial disaster is around the corner! I generally take the conservative low risk taking approach but the thought of 10+ CF properties sparked a light of retiring early :)

    Anyway just so we can get an idea why i was asking about multiple properties is because likely I'll only be in this secure working position for the next 18-24 months before returning to Aus & starting fresh.. of course then the bank wont loan me a dollar until I'm settled with work. It was my ambition to get 2-3 CF with CG potential within the next 12 months as a great financial stepping stone .. likely to lock in my interest rates (80% fixed with 20% variable linking excess funds to the offset) for 3 years by years end & then I'll at least it will make budgeting secure. My first purchase was in 2007 & then 2010, 2012 with all sitting neutral to CF+ve .. So hoping we can ride the current market increase & have enough equity to utilise for the next couple purchases next year. Thanks again!

     

    Profile photo of JpcashflowJpcashflow
    Participant
    @jpcashflow
    Join Date: 2007
    Post Count: 575

    Hi Stevie,

    Thanks for the reply, it great to see you are doing allot of research and reading.

    Some people will agree and some will disagree with the following comment, For the last 15 to 20 years the property market went gang busters and investment growth was compounding at a crazy rate.

    Some may say that the market has slowed down but in fact the market has some what decreased to normal levels.

    So if you plan effectively there is no reason why you cant reach your goal and believe it not more wealth is generated in falling markets.

    When people paint a doom and gloom picture I see it as an oppurunity to increase my wealth.

    Jpcashflow | JP Financial Group
    http://www.jpfinancialgroup.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Your first port of call in finance :)

    Profile photo of JpcashflowJpcashflow
    Participant
    @jpcashflow
    Join Date: 2007
    Post Count: 575

    Hi Stevie,

    Thanks for the reply, it great to see you are doing allot of research and reading.

    Some people will agree and some will disagree with the following comment, For the last 15 to 20 years the property market went gang busters and investment growth was compounding at a crazy rate.

    Some may say that the market has slowed down but in fact the market has some what decreased to normal levels.

    So if you plan effectively there is no reason why you cant reach your goal and believe it not more wealth is generated in falling markets.

    When people paint a doom and gloom picture I see it as an oppurunity to increase my wealth.

    Jpcashflow | JP Financial Group
    http://www.jpfinancialgroup.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Your first port of call in finance :)

    Profile photo of Modernity InvestingModernity Investing
    Participant
    @mark-coburn
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 181

    There is a saying my mother used to use about wanting too much, too soon in real estate: 

    "Chickens lay eggs, Pigs get slaughtered for bacon" and she would know, she had a habit of getting caught, being both a pig as well as a chicken!

    That said I would not recommend this strategy to my clients and would not do this myself unless I was a cash buyer.

    Here goes; in a rising market you can buy 10 properties in 12 months if you are careful with the method and manage your risks. The method I would suggest would be to buy a number of off-the-plan apartments in high growth areas using 10% cash deposits. Spreading the purchases between a few locations (5)and spreading the expected completion dates between 6-18 months. 

    Risks being your ability to on-sell the required number (5), settle on the contracts you need to(5), the market heading south, your ability to borrow being reduced because of internal or external factors. 

    To make is easier you would need to start with at least 25% of the total contract values as cash in the bank that you plan to use to fund this exercise. Add to that maintain excellent serviceability. 

    I have used a very flexible definition of "Buy"  and "12 Months"

     

    Modernity Investing
    Email Me

    Profile photo of Adrian CahillAdrian Cahill
    Participant
    @adriannqld
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 128

    Hi guys. What are your thoughts here.

    Stevie, have you heard about Vendor Finance? One of my best mates does it. Instead of properties being rented out, there sold on Vendor Finance.

    Basic strategy I would use. Source average properties in regional areas like Townsville or Albury, Only buy what you can get 5% under value, do minimal cosmetics, resell on Vendor Finance 5% over value. VF isn't super easy, however CF is better then just renting them out. Buyers deposit could give you half your deposit back (flexible) and the bank (particularly if u just gave buyers a Lease Option) would see the higher yield on the property so your serviceability should higher as well supporting your next buy better.

    PS. I prefer setting up Cashflow from Australia and living in cities like Shanghai, Chiang Mai, KL. Cost of living and partying is lower than Australia and a small AU+CF is plenty.

    Adrian Cahill | AdrianCahill.com Personal Development Expert
    http://adriancahill.com/from-investor-to-coach/
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Here since 2002, however things have evolved over the years.

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