Forums / Property Investing / Overseas Deals / Japan (and its Real-Estate market) Rides Again

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  • Profile photo of Ziv Nakajima-MagenZiv Nakajima-Magen
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    The world's business media channels continues to sing the tune of Japan's property market revival –

    "Bloomberg" video – http://www.bloomberg.com/video/opportunity-seen-in-japanese-real-estate-_xFIuuu0St6VJg0jHlEaIA.html

    Wallstreet Journal – "Urban land prices rise across the country" -http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324412604578512342147922814.html 

    we've experienced a rise of app. 30% in our favourite areas, at least in the lower end of the market – nicely set off by the yen's recent drop (although, if the last week is anything to go by, our Australian and US clients will want to transfer their income back home shortly).

    As mr Bass and his club of "if I build it (the impending disaster) it will come" hedge fund groupies continue their wishful thinking attack, Japan slowly continue to stubbornly defy them by demonstrating that revival and growth, although not easy, are still very much in the cards for the world's third largest economy. 

    Ziv Magen- Manager, Asia-Pacific

    NTI – Global Real Estate – Japanese Property

    http://www.nippontradings.com

    Ziv Nakajima-Magen | Nippon Tradings International (NTI)
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    Ziv Nakajima-Magen - Manager, Asia-Pacific @ NTI - Japan Real-Estate Investment Property

    Profile photo of FreckleFreckle
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    Bloomber – Nic Smith. Hardly convincing. A very superficial rap. The RE he's talking about is market REITs fueled by a rotation out of bonds. WSJ article wouldn't come up.

    BOJ is trying to push investors out of JGB's at a controlled rate (not working) and into stocks and other investments. It's also buying directly into the market especially ETF's. 

    This will be a disaster for Japan. If you don't understand the relationship between JGB's, yield ceilings, currency devaluation and their effects on key sectors of the economy then you need to study this thing a lot harder. BOJ hasn't got control of this and it's lurching from one crises to another as it tries to hold things together.

    This has been done before. It failed then and it'll fail again. Crucial economic indicators are deteriorating not getting better.

    Profile photo of Ziv Nakajima-MagenZiv Nakajima-Magen
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    Yes, we've heard it before, you'll quote the economists who don't agree with the ones I quote and vice versa – the reasons both opinions exist is because no one knows what'll happen (including you, as shocking as this may sound).

     

    Here's the article the economist was quoting – http://ajw.asahi.com/article/economy/business/AJ201305300066

     

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    Ziv Nakajima-Magen - Manager, Asia-Pacific @ NTI - Japan Real-Estate Investment Property

    Profile photo of FreckleFreckle
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    Here's my bet. The current hot money flows into Japan trying to front run the market will in due course (and I expect that to be soon) correct back and beyond where they came from. AU$ saw some pressure from Yen exiting positions here and heading home to speculate on the gold rush spurred by BOJ policy and market actions. AU$ dollar now seems to have stabilised around the US0.96 region.

    The kind of stuff you're seeing on the ground is to be expected. Problem is they are distortions from a normal market and that produces volatility. That volatility is pushing large institutional investors away from bonds and investing in Japan. The VaR isn't worth it. 

    BOJ has started something it may not be able to stop. They want 2% inflation but bonds to stay below 1%. Enough Bond holders are saying bugger that an opting out. That's putting upward pressure on yields and rates forcing the BOJ to support the market. Over 1% and banks face substantial T1 capital impairment. Mainstream banks by 10% and regionals by 20%.

    It's the kind of thing Bass has alluded to. He's also indicated the BOJ planned operations are too small and they will have to massively increase bond buying programs over the long haul. He describes this as the investor paradox. The govt wants 2% inflation but sub 1% interest rates. The normal investor would sell and look for yield somewhere else. With almost one quadrillion yen on the table a Y60T buying program isn't going to satisfy the bond market. That then leads to a currency depreciation as the initial program of doubling the money supply will have to go much further to support the bond market.

    They're caught between a rock and a hard place. Their debt load is, according to current budget forecasts, set to increase by 7% between now and 2014. Their cost to income ratio is already at 46% of revenue and set to deteriorate further.

    Bond rates where around 0.3% when this all started and are now around 0.9%. That's a massive hit to expenses. 

    Local stuff aside for a minute. All this printing is pushing yen out of the country looking for safety and yield. That's screwing with international bond markets and forcing CB's to take stabalising action to buffer their own economies. I can't see them tolerating this for too much longer.

    Ziv you need to stop admiring the paint job and pop the bonnet for a deko at the engine. It's a dog.

    Profile photo of FreckleFreckle
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    zmagen wrote:
    Yes, we've heard it before, you'll quote the economists who don't agree with the ones I quote and vice versa

     

    A fair whack of what I quote doesn't come from economists. The underlying data is provided by the BOJ – your guys I believe.

    I'd be interested in some detail, analysis and reasoning to support your position rather than superficial MSM reporting and retrospective descriptions of my position.

    Profile photo of Ziv Nakajima-MagenZiv Nakajima-Magen
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    Quote:
    I'd be interested in some detail, analysis and reasoning to support your position rather than superficial MSM reporting and retrospective descriptions of my position…

    But you keep receiving it, it's just that you don't like it much, because it doesn't sit well with your doom and gloom theories. It's a bit funny that you accuse me of being retrospective in describing your retrospective views – you've made it quite clear, you believe that Japan is bound to crash. I've also made it quite clear that I believe you're speculating – as am I, and anybody else who may have anything to say about these potential futures. What you perceive as "shallow" media items and "a superficial paintjob" is, in my view, the best attempt Japan's made in decades at calculated and responsible growth attempts that, as many assume, will yield better results this time if not withheld prematurely. The reasoning and analysis is all around you, but you whack your hand over your eyes and keep repeating "not true, not true" in the hope that it'll go away, and only your favourite analysis remains, until it becomes reality. Maybe it will, maybe it won't – but I'll keep representing the sane approach, which Abe is actually pulling off rather well, in spite of your attempts to label anything even remotely positive as "shallow", "unconvincing" or any other superlative you may choose to attach to it. Here goes again, just in case anyone's missed it – Step 1 – QE (discussed to death, but here are the immediate results) – http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/11/business/global/pro-inflation-policies-show-signs-of-helping-japan-economy.html

    Quote:
    The most immediate effect of the weaker yen has been the increase in profits of major exporters. This past week, Toyota Motor reported that net income in the last 12 months had jumped threefold, and Sony produced an annual profit for the first time in five years. Both forecast further profit increases largely because of the weaker yen. Perhaps more important, particularly for the citizens of Japan, who have suffered from a long period of falling wages and prices, the yen’s move is expected to kindle inflation in the once moribund economy…the more immediate catalyst for the rate’s crossing of the threshold was signs of strength in the U.S. economy…"

    Re-vitalized US economy + strengthening USD + weakening JPY = more exports (will it be long-term? your GUESS is as good as mine – on an immediate level, at least, seems to be happening)

    Quote:
    The key, economists say, lies in how much exporters will pass on their bigger profits to consumers, by raising wages or hiring new workers. Higher incomes would drive a much-needed recovery in consumption, bringing about a virtuous cycle of rising prices, profits, investment and even higher incomes. Mr. Abe himself has been publicly pressuring corporate executives to increase pay, declaring on television last month that companies needed to “return favorable corporate earnings to their workers,” prompting a string of companies to declare wage increases or extra bonuses in recent months…

    Something that can only happen in Japan, btw, to the best of my knowledge – pre-emptively supporting consumers with raised salaries, to accommodate for the coming rise in prices/inflation… Mid-term – utilization of Japan's untapped workforce of women (currently 70% of which cease working after their first child) – http://tokiotours.wordpress.com/2013/05/30/news-about-japan-abe-is-trying-to-unlock-the-untapped-potential-of-the-japanese-women-workforce/

    Quote:
    The two most important policies in Abenomics’ “third arrow” — structural reform — are increasing labor mobility and keeping more women in the labor force so that they can help raise Japan’s GDP. These two issues are linked at the hip, and the economic potential that could be unlocked is vast…Japan’s female population still remains largely untapped as a source of economic growth. According to a Goldman Sachs study, if Japan could increase its employment rate to match its male employment rate of 80 percent, its workforce could potentially expand by 8.2 million people, boosting GDP by as much as 14 percent…

    Ambitious? Maybe, but still the best attempt made at utilizing an untapped strength that can turn things around, if implemented correctly. And renewables, of course – http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-20/goldman-sachs-eyes-japan-renewable-energy-investments.html

    Quote:
    Goldman Sachs Group Inc. (GS) plans to invest as much as 50 billion yen ($487 million) in renewable energy projects in Japan in the next five years, tapping demand for electricity produced from solar and wind-power generators. The Wall Street firm also plans to take as much as 250 billion yen of bank loans and project-financing over the same period to move ahead with projects that would cost a total of 300 billion yen, Hiroko Matsumoto, a Tokyo-based spokeswoman for Goldman, said by telephone… Renewable energy has attracted interest from investors ranging from billionaire Masayoshi Son’s Softbank Corp. and financial-services company Orix Corp. to the country’s biggest banks led by Mizuho Financial Group Inc. Japan will probably become the largest solar market in the world after China this year, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Commercial and utility-scale projects will boost solar installations to a range of 6.1 gigawatts to 9.4 gigawatts in 2013, exceeding an earlier forecast of 3.2 gigawatts to 4 gigawatts, Bloomberg New Energy Finance said in April…

    And last but not least, the further untapped long-term potential of immigration, which we've discussed to death already, and is much further down the road. You don't like these attempts? Too speculative for you? Too dependant on what may or may not happen elsewhere in the world? Tough. That's how plans work. They assume, then re-adapt. As far as I can see, if anything has a chance to pull off this recovery and regrowth, this strategy's a pretty good bet. The mantra of "printing money doesn't create growth" is only half-true. The real way it goes is "printing money and throwing it aimlessly into the economy doesn't create growth". Well structured, flexible and motivating plans do, and Abe's got a pretty good shot at implementing his, as far as I can see. Sure, Japan might crash, the US recovery might turn into another big fall, and Europe may yet burn to the hilt. But maybe they won't. Maybe the people heading them will actually prove to be smarter than you and the rest of us couch-commentators are, and maybe it'll just be dumb luck that'll help matters through – in any case, Abe's plan for growth may eventuate, much in the same way that your predictions of doom may. You haven't got a clue, as annoying as it may sound to you – and neither have I. Spirits (and some very positive signs) are promising, and all I can do is continue to hedge, and support the markets I subscribe to – which is exactly what Japan's doing as well. Sorry if my hopeful analysis isn't to your liking, as I'm sure it won't be – but I think it's at least as good as your speculative attempts to predict the end of the world.

    Ziv Nakajima-Magen | Nippon Tradings International (NTI)
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    Ziv Nakajima-Magen - Manager, Asia-Pacific @ NTI - Japan Real-Estate Investment Property

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    I'm glad I wasn't drinking a wine when I read that. 

    You should go into business consulting. There's heaps of businesses who would like to know how to make a go of it with rising input costs and shrinking income but still be able to borrow to the moon whilst paying the staff more.

    They'll gladly pay a small fortune for that.

    I hear Krugman's looking for an apprentice. You and him would get along like a house on fire.

    Exports rose 3.8 percent yoy to 5.777 trillion yen, marking a second straight month of gains.

    Imports rose 9.4 percent yoy to 6.657 trillion yen, up for a sixth straight month.

    I must be maths challenged. Corporates reporting profits when costs exceed revenues. There must be a new paradigm in corporate accounting that I haven't heard of. Or maybe it's simply revenues from international operations being converted to the newly depreciated yen that look good on the local balance sheet. A pity that income will never see the light of day in Japan

    MOF Japan obviously have it all wrong then if MSM articles trump real data.

    Profile photo of Ziv Nakajima-MagenZiv Nakajima-Magen
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    Krugman, Abe, IMF, BOJ, FED, RBA – idiots, the lot of them, without a cent of wisdom and/or experience between them. Praise the lord for Kyle Bass and the Freckle – there may be hope for the world yet. Get off your high horse, it's getting tired. The data and severity of the global economy situation these past few years, Japan not being exempt, is known and well documented. You want to keep screeching that the sky's falling, I get it, Chicken Little, really. It's just that the rest of us would love to do their best to improve things in the meantime, whether the methods are to your liking or not, and also diversify and hedge and place our bets across the board with a long-term view when things are low here and there. You'll survive, I promise you, even if not everybody thinks you're a genius and the preacher of the one true gospel. So will Japan. And the people investing in it. Not everyone lost their pants when the economic manure hit the fan in the US too – speak to some of the people around here, they've actually been doing quite well, in most parts, and hope to continue and do so LONG TERM, past any temporary malaise. Enjoy your strategy and try to accept that not everybody in the world agrees with you and/or wants to dive into the pool of despair with you, Freck. Bummer, I know, but that's how it goes. And PLEASE try to come up with something new instead of jumping up and down with the same battered old signs every time new information presents itself. It's a bit embarrassing. At least the "superficial, unconvincing, weak" tripe that I post here presents some occasional new data every now and then…

    Ziv Nakajima-Magen | Nippon Tradings International (NTI)
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    Ziv Nakajima-Magen - Manager, Asia-Pacific @ NTI - Japan Real-Estate Investment Property

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    ROFL… jeez Ziv I didn't think melodrama was your forte…

    Never met someone so hell bent on proving Einstein's theory of insanity wrong.

    Abe..BOJ… this time is different… we just need moar!!!

    Lets print twice as much money… surely we'll be twice as rich.

    What??? Moar debt will solve our debt problem… well let's go for the doctor then..

    Krugman – debt doesn't matter.    I told my bank that and they laughed at me… but Krugman said so and he has a Nobel Prize thingy.

    Profile photo of Ziv Nakajima-MagenZiv Nakajima-Magen
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    To simplify Japans recovery strategy into "going into more debt" without addressing the specifics or where that money goes is kindergarten rhetoric, freckle. Gimme a break. You don't like the news, don't think much of the strategy, suit yourself, but you can't ignore its existence.  You're the one smacking your head into the wall here, not Abe.

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    Ziv Nakajima-Magen - Manager, Asia-Pacific @ NTI - Japan Real-Estate Investment Property

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    Recovery strategy… ???

    ….more debt, higher expenses and less income. Is that what passes for a recovery strategy these days?

    [image no longer available]
    If that's a recovery strategy I'm a monkeys uncle.

    Japan deflation persists, industrial output falls (30May13)
    http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2013-05-30/japan-deflation-persists-industrial-output-falls

    BOJ Seen Failing to Tame Volatility as Sale Slumps: Japan Credit (29May13)
    By Masaki Kondo, Mariko Ishikawa and Shigeki Nozawa
    http://www.businessweek.com/news/2013-05-28/boj-seen-failing-to-tame-volatility-as-sale-slumps-japan-credit

    On the Road to a Japanese Debt Crisis (29May13)
    By Desmond Lachman (served as director in the International Monetary Fund's Policy Development and Review Department.)
    http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/the-exchange/road-japanese-debt-crisis-164423450.html

    I liked this one;

    Japan Output Gains as Tokyo Prices End Four-Year Slide: Economy
    http://www.businessweek.com/news/2013-05-30/japan-output-exceeds-estimates-in-boost-for-abe-revival-campaign

    I laugh when I read this stuff. They've just managed to smash their currency by 27% and then claim a surge in things like GDP (3.6% annualised) and output. (production +1.7%) That's like having a liquidation sale and saying sales are up but then not disclosing your input costs went ballistic and margins got crushed. 

    But in the pro Abe twilight zone all is well….kinda

    Profile photo of Ziv Nakajima-MagenZiv Nakajima-Magen
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    You seem to laugh a lot, Freckle, good on ya. It's probably because everybody in the worlds so stupid and you're so smart. Then again, it could be a sign of mental frailty, I hear. But those graphs are so pretty and colourful…enjoy your weekend!

    Ziv Nakajima-Magen | Nippon Tradings International (NTI)
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    Profile photo of FreckleFreckle
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    zmagen wrote:
    You seem to laugh a lot, Freckle, good on ya. It's probably because everybody in the worlds so stupid and you're so smart. Then again, it could be a sign of mental frailty, I hear. But those graphs are so pretty and colourful…enjoy your weekend!

    C'mon Ziv your retorts are usually better than that. Melodramatics and hissy fits detract from your credibility.

    Profile photo of Ziv Nakajima-MagenZiv Nakajima-Magen
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    I'm serious, man – it's impossible to debate with someone who cancels out every potential solution to every challenge, every number or statistic that doesn't sit well with his world view as "unconvincing", "shallow", "meaningless in the long run" etc – as smart as these words all sound, they're as meaningless as the point they're trying to make – which is, as much as you try to hide it – "I think a disaster is coming, and no one will convince me otherwise". It's cool, you're entitled to your opinion, enjoy it! ;)

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    Profile photo of Ziv Nakajima-MagenZiv Nakajima-Magen
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    Sorry, freckle, maybe your memory fails. I'll repeat it one more time for your Alzheimer's sake –

    I already answered all of your queries to the best of my ability in past discussions (that's why your relentless posts receive less of a reply each time, because you're not bringing anything new to the table, and neither am I, in my opinion, so its getting to be a tired rehash of the same old debate).

    In essence, your replies to my replies were as follows (correct me if I'm wrong here) –

    1. Exports, which are picking up considerably since the yen dropped, will fail because the rest of the world will not pick up enough to carry them sufficiently

    2. Renewable energy initiatives, which Japan is currently second only to china in, and are attracting a lot of overseas investment, will fail because "you haven't seem them work anywhere else" 

    3. Incorporating women and immigrants into the workforce will fail, because you believe the Japanese people won't support it.

    4. Generally speaking, Abe, Obama, Krugman, and anyone who agrees with anything in their respective financial doctrines will fail, because they're stupid.

    I disagree with you. You disagree with me. Anything else we've been putting forth here are simply our own takes on current data from around the world, and don't change squat in our respective perspectives. You interpret it your way, I interpret it my way. It's getting tired. I propose from now on, you can respond to anything I post here with the slogan "Japan sucks", which sums up your view perfectly – I promise not to retaliate, and you can always have the last word. Maybe you can reach a similar agreement with the US guys too, save us all the tirades?

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    zmagen wrote:
    .

    In essence, your replies to my replies were as follows (correct me if I'm wrong here) –

    1. Exports, which are picking up considerably since the yen dropped, will fail because the rest of the world will not pick up enough to carry them sufficiently

    Fascinated to know how you arived at that conclusion when the MOF's figures show quite categorically that import costs are rising faster than export revenues. 

    Quote:
    2. Renewable energy initiatives, which Japan is currently second only to china in, and are attracting a lot of overseas investment, will fail because "you haven't seem them work anywhere else"

    Never said that. The renewables sector is a heavily subsidised industry that can't stand unsupported in actual market conditions. At this point in time it is a drag on growth. On the IP and development side the kind of revenue generated is fairly small in the scheme of things. On the manufacturing side cost pressures have and are pushing manufacturers to the wall. Even the cheap Chinese manufacturers are going bust.

    The latest head wind for renewables is a loss in confidence due to poor manufacturing techniques which are showing a 10 – 15% component failure rate on a product that is guaranteed for 20 – 25 yrs. US companies are now putting aside huge reserves ($250 million in one case) against future claims. That now suggests uptake could be dampened if the industry doesn't do something to lift quality. It takes around 7 yrs in most cases to recoup your home install investment with subsidies. If a system needs replacing because of quality issues then ROI goes out the window along with subsidies and we're likely to see a pullback or stalling of renewable uptake.

    At the moment subsidies are manageable because renewables are a small percentage of the market and the additional cost and tarrif rates can be smoothed to accomodate the additional cost. As that ratio increases then somewhere along the cost curve the consumer is going to have to shoulder the full cost. As the market approaches that point resistance is likely to increase. I think that will prove difficult to overcome.

    Another problem renewables face is that energy demand is increasing considerably but the bulk of that demand is industrial which renewables are in the main unable to supply. 

    Another point of resistance is large traditional energy suppliers who see renewables as a competitor. 

    Renewables won't fail over the long term but they are not the economic panacea you make them out to be. Renewable technologies are being pursued globally and Japan is just one player among many who has to fight for market share. 

    Quote:
    3. Incorporating women and immigrants into the workforce will fail, because you believe the Japanese people won't support it.

    That's one aspect of it. But how many immigrants does it take to make a difference? What jobs will they do? How would they contribute to improving Japan's economic outlook? How does Japan compete for quality immigrants when the whole world is doing the same thing. Japan needs to change its regulations to give immigrants equal rights with Japanese. It would need to initiate an education and media program to change attitudes both internally and externally.

    Simply stating immigration could unlock economic opportunity without considering the complexity and difficulty in its implementation let alone the time frames it would take to see any economic benefit is fanciful at best. Japan has never been adept at welcoming foreigners. Quite the contrary. There's nothing I see that suggests they have the skill, desire or level of support that would indicate this could be achieved. Until they do something tangible it's just political hot air.

    Quote:
    4. Generally speaking, Abe, Obama, Krugman, and anyone who agrees with anything in their respective financial doctrines will fail, because they're stupid.

    Again putting words in my mouth. Abe has no credibility. He's a once failed PM. So now that he's reborn with an old strategy that failed last time but repackaged as new with a slick marketing name like 3 arrows he's suddenly the messiah. If Abe was a failed property developer you'd be considered an idiot to sign up to his offerings second time round.

    once fooled shame on you…twice fooled shame on me

    Obama – i had high hopes for the guy. What a let down. He'll be remembered for drone strikes and that abomination called Abamacare.

    Krugman – a guy who is widely considered to be very good in his specialist field of economics but an absolute muppet in theoretical macro economics. In the last few years he's been taken to the cleaners by some of his noted peers. He's become a bought and paid for mouthpiece of the NYT. That's a peer assessment not mine. In the front lines of economic activity he's not taken seriously by the big successful fund mangers who are widely regarded as astute intelligent players based on their performance not what they say.

    Quote:
    I disagree with you. You disagree with me. Anything else we've been putting forth here are simply our own takes on current data from around the world, and don't change squat in our respective perspectives. You interpret it your way, I interpret it my way. It's getting tired. I propose from now on, you can respond to anything I post here with the slogan "Japan sucks", which sums up your view perfectly – I promise not to retaliate, and you can always have the last word. Maybe you can reach a similar agreement with the US guys too, save us all the tirades?

    Sooking again…

    Profile photo of Ziv Nakajima-MagenZiv Nakajima-Magen
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    You're confusing "sook" with "tired of re-typing the same arguments six months consecutively".

    Its all in here – https://www.propertyinvesting.com/forums/overseas-deals/4346966

    enough.

    Ziv Nakajima-Magen | Nippon Tradings International (NTI)
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    Ziv Nakajima-Magen - Manager, Asia-Pacific @ NTI - Japan Real-Estate Investment Property

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    Certainly is.

    A quote from forumite BMW with relatives on the ground there from that thread:

    Doesn’t seem like a rosy future ahead.

    My FIL has a small engineering shop in outer Tokyo but is almost being  forced to retire due to lack of work coming in.

    At the moment they are buying other currencies as their accountant has warned of a massive devaluation of the Yen to be coming soon.

    My worry is that so many people believe that the government will be able to provide for them in retirement as they have paid the super tax during their working lives, but it just doesn’t seem sustainable with an ageing population and massive government debt.

    …and another one from Shahin Afarin

    Very interesting thread – I had 2 Japanese investors purchasing here and both mentioned that they 'escaped' Japan as they believe the economy is terrible and they have no confidence and things are going to get any better anytime soon. No real concrete evidence or numbers but just the word from the people living in the country.

    …..and another. I don't often agree with Alistair but in this case..

    What this article is saying is that Japan has a policy of defaulting on their debt by proxy by reducing the value of the currency in which the debt is denominated. It then goes on to say this is good because it will help exporters, but what about bond holders and people in Japan with savings, they are the victims.

    In short, the Government has spent above its means and is now going to tax those who have supported it and those who have been responsible and not spent above their means, by inflating away the value of their Yen.

    ...and I couldn't go without including this one from PrimePropertyIn

    Been looking at this conversation for a while, I think you have a very good point Freckle.

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    And S Korea has had enough..

    South Korea Demands "International Action" Against "Negative Impact" Of Abenomics

    Implicitly, the G-8/20 also thinks everyone else in the world is an idiot. But all this will be irrelevant if one more major export powerhouse joins alongside South Korea in formally lodging complaints. Someone like Germany. Because if Merkel also says that the 200 or so boost to the S&P is more than enough to offset marginal losses in German exports, then Abenomics may very well be on its way out.

    The next round is about to begin

    Profile photo of FreckleFreckle
    Blocked
    @freckle
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 1,681
    zmagen wrote:
    "I think a disaster is coming, and no one will convince me otherwise". It's cool, you're entitled to your opinion, enjoy it! ;)

    A disaster isn't coming it's already here for millions upon millions.

    Iceland

    Ireland

    Portugal

    Spain

    Greece

    France

    Slovenia

    Netherlands

    Libya

    Egypt

    Cyprus

    Italy

    Syria

    Argentina

    Venezuela

    ..and the list above doesn't even consider the millions in 1st world countries like the US who lost most of their wealth to the GFC. 

    Abe's a joke. A failed PM with no economic credibility whatsoever who's simply repeating past attempts that failed but some how moar is better and it's different this time. The 3 arrows thing is a catchy gimmick to sell the public but it's more like a 3 legged tripod. One leg fails it all falls over.

    It's time you stopped sooking like a schoolgirl every time you get smacked around the ears with some basic data and simple logic. If you want to be taken seriously then support your argument with something substantive. For example;  saying immigration is a solution without providing a strategy, timeline or how it would be implemented is just waffling in the wind.

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