Its official. According the SMH today we’re a greedy bunch and getting greedier, and what’s more this is a good thing!
You thrifty types better get out there and spend up big over Christmas like all those good people contributing to our economic growth. Forecasts say we’ll spend on average $1650 for every person in Australia. I haven’t spent my $3300 for my wife and I so I better get started.
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/12/09/1102182420352.html
And I thought I was being responsible…
Michael it sounds like you are going to be busy attempting to spend your quota!
I cant believe the spending habits of this country…
I am happy to share my quota with anyone who wants it, in fact I will gladly give away 90% of my spending allocation to some other mug who wants to spend their heart out.
[xmas]
“Forecasters expect retail spending this festive season to hit a record $33 billion – about $1650 for every person”
And people wonder why the gap between rich and poor widen… I think it has something to do with those ‘small, easy monthly payments’ and the lump of plastic….
But hay I just love debt and credit so I won’t complain (and no I won’t spend even 1/20 on Christmas (hay small family
).Rgds.
Lucifer_auOriginally posted by MichaelWhyte:
Its official. According the SMH today we’re a greedy bunch and getting greedier, and what’s more this is a good thing! You thrifty types better get out there and spend up big over Christmas like all those good people contributing to our economic growth. Forecasts say we’ll spend on average $1650 for every person in Australia. I haven’t spent my $3300 for my wife and I so I better get started.
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/12/09/1102182420352.html
And I thought I was being responsible…Hi Michael
Xmas spending spree? Count Niki and I in, mate. Santa Claus is gonna get a hernia carrying that massive chunk of land we’re buying ourselves for a Xmas present!!! Mmmmmm….. Investments for presents… Yummmeeee, don’t you just luv ’em!!
Guess the ham and turkey will have to wait for another Season while we pay off this deal. [blush2] [biggrin] [buz2]
Merry Xmas to all (now where’s that Santa smiley?)
GregGreg, buying chunks of land for your christmas present, tsk tsk. You know what that is gunna do, dont you! It will bump up the national spending average….[wiseguy]
Originally posted by MichaelWhyte:Its official. According the SMH today we’re a greedy bunch and getting greedier, and what’s more this is a good thing!
You thrifty types better get out there and spend up big over Christmas like all those good people contributing to our economic growth. Forecasts say we’ll spend on average $1650 for every person in Australia. I haven’t spent my $3300 for my wife and I so I better get started.
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/12/09/1102182420352.html
And I thought I was being responsible…
Strange comments.
It all comes down to semantics. What is greed?According to the article it is avarice, but it is also ambition, it is having lots of possessions and it is “taking more than our fair share” (whatever that means), and it also means whatever the jurno thinks fit.
Articles in a newspaper have one single solitary purpuse, and it is: sell the paper.
The jurno on $30k a year part time, knows that greed is a magic word that grabs people’s attention, particularly people who go through life looking with eagel eye for yet another excuse to justify their lack lustre performance in life.
Such effort, deserving of a better cause, does not mean much at all, only that words like greed have been overused and its real meaning lost, worn away by misuse, lumped now with new values and distorted meanings to suit yet another jurno looking to place a post.May God prosper you always.[biggrin]
MarcI actually didn’t mind the article, thought it was quite well written, and comment/discussion pieces should be taken with a grain of salt anyway, with the reader left to interpret them as they see fit.
“So even if Australians don’t consider themselves greedy, on some measures we are. Particularly if we define greed as taking more than our fair share. In 1998 the United Nations Development Program estimated a child born in Australia would consume the same as 30-50 children born in developing countries.” – I think it’s pretty clear what angle the writer is coming from there.
What does greed mean to you Marc1? And why are you so dismissive of so many people? Why would journos write articles that weren’t of interest to anyone? Doesn’t make much sense to me.
Cheers
rGreg F,
Merry Christmas! Nice pressie!!
I often wonder how these figures are arrived at though. “Retail Spending” I take it means spending in retail outlets and excludes such things as holidays etc. My wife and I are flying up to Hamilton Island on Saturday (don’t mean to gloat [cap]) for a week sailing around the Whitsundays. Does this count towards our $3300 or not? [biggrin]
Anyway, a lot of money tends to flow this time of year, and most of it not directed towards investments.
Greg, you’re an exception to the rule. Well done!
Merry Christmas all,
Michael. [xmas]PS. Even though our sailing trip is pure consumption plain and simple, we are still going to investigate the option of buying a yacht through the lease company as a business venture. What’s the yield, what’s the deductibles, what’s the payback etc. Always thinking investment, even when on holiday. [biggrin] Cheers, MW
Originally posted by richmond:“So even if Australians don’t consider themselves greedy, on some measures we are. Particularly if we define greed as taking more than our fair share. In 1998 the United Nations Development Program estimated a child born in Australia would consume the same as 30-50 children born in developing countries.” – I think it’s pretty clear what angle the writer is coming from there.
Bingo! There you go…. the more you have, because you achieved, and therefore consume, the greedier you are…..NOT.
Can you see how this is such a classic anti-value? Oh no! the kids of those rotten Aussie are eating us out of house and home!
What a nonsense. If we consume more it is because we have more to give in exchange, it is not like we are stealing aren’t we?
I tell you what, if the western world would stop consuming the developing countries would starve even more. The world economy is fuelled by offer and demand, the proposing to slow the demand means what exactly?The rational behind this victim mentality statement that are so common to become an irritating nuisance is that wealth is a finite commodity and that if “the Aussie kids” take more than “the developing country kids” then they will starve because we eat too much.
What a load of rubble that is. Wealth is created by the intelligent, the bold, the adventurous the successful and such creation is not done at others expenses but actually to the advantage of others.
If I enlarge the marketplace with a creation of mine, I will benefit from the fruits but so will million of others in an economic chain reaction.Of course this is a very un-popular economic theory, it is much easier to blame the “rich” for “poverty”.
What does greed mean to you Marc1?The difference between greed and ambition is that the greedy accumulates whatever it is, out of fear of the future since he sees this present opportunity to stockpile, as one in a lifetime, since it is not the result of a calculated intelligent plan, but more pot luck and never to be repeated again. Greed comes together with fear, lack of confidence and a conviction of inadequacy.
The ambitious may stock up money, properties, shares or gold bullion but it is as the result of a journey he is confident in and that is bringing in predictable results, easily repeated if everything fails. The ambitious enjoys the ride, gets his kicks from the journey, and the prizes are a consequence of his lifestyle.
To call such person greedy is economically absurd since it dismisses the roll on effect of his spending and the fact that his wealth is his creation and not the result of plunder and robbery taking away from “the poor”.
Why would journos write articles that weren’t of interest to anyone? Doesn’t make much sense to me.Mm where did I say that? I say that journalist who themselves have little to show for all their pretenses of know it all, write whatever they think will be eye catching, sometimes giving the impression they know better when in fact thier very occupation is not necessarily a showcase of success.
It does not need too much research to realise that victim mentality stock phrases are a good eye catcher, so “GREEDY FAT CAT ROBS POOR KID OF HIS CHRISTMAS” would make the first page. 95% of the readers will immediately buy the paper to confirm their view of the world where the rich becomes rich at the expense of the poor.
Of course if you later read the article, the fat cat was a property investor who bought a housing commission place, (what a nerve, can you believe this ba**ard? doesn’t he have enough houses already?) and the poor kid, was a tenant who had to move to another house disrupting his Christmas. Of course the jurno will fail to add to his “justice call” that the selling of the house was a governemt decision, that the taxes the investor produces are enough to subsidise 10 housing department proeprties, and that the tenant’s family has been of welfare for three generations.
One more paper sold!May God prosper you always.[biggrin]
Marcmarc – questions.for you !
1. Are there rich people in the world who arent intelligent, bold and adventurous??? even if there is only one then your arguement falls down. the market and the system is imperfect. eg mobsters, corrupt officials, alan bond, sultan of brunie, boxers.
2. are there poor people in the world who arent lazy, dumb and boring?? if the answer is yes then your arguement falls down. the market and the system is imperfect. mother theresa, comedians, somalia, netballers!
thats why we need to spread the wealth via government intervention, charity etc. thats why we have taxes and welfare. because there will always be haves and have nots…
the fight for a wealthier world where there is less poverty is not one about people getting of there arses and going to work. its about a FAIR and even distribution of our economic resources.
forget the rhetoric and show me a system where your type of politics works!!! heres your chance! no point theorising if what you theorise is both impracticle and unobtainable..
ps – you make rich people, or being wealthy sound almost devine…i wish the rich people i know lived up to that ideal. the most idealistic people i know have wealth fairly low down on there to do list…
Guys,
Seems we’re now off into the “can everyone be rich” discussion, or the relative merits of economic constructs.
I posted a response to the thread by that name, here’s the link:
https://www.propertyinvesting.com/forum/topic/14308.html
Aussierogue, you’re on the money when you mention market imperfections and the need for intervention that this creates. I don’t think it fundamentally undermines the merit in capitalism. But I do think it makes a case for Fair trading over Free trading. Free market capitalism is the domain of the far right, and this is typically at the expense of developing nations. This is because the comparative advantage of those nations is via their cheap labour force. So $$ for labour ends up in China and India and SEA. Industrialised countries sell their IP but go off shore for cheap production costs.
Marc’s argument seems to be that this is a good thing in that the flow of capital into these developing countries is a good thing. Unfortunately, there is also negative byproducts for these countries. When capital favours labour it can create an economy based on labour which is difficult to break out of to the more value add products. Also, free markets for labour can reduce the minimum wage costs that countries impose to maintain minimum living standards. This was evidenced even in the US after the FTA with Mexico. This dropped the minimum wage in the US so that these workers could compete with their southern cousins. In Leftist terms this is called the “race to the bottom”.
I’m more left than right, but I do support the concept of capitalism and global trade. But I maintain that it does require certain interventions for equity to be preserved. Rampant free market capitalism does increase global social surplus, but it also increases the gap between the haves and have nots by polarising the roles that certain countries play in the global economy.
Some smarter developing nations have identified this and are now being protectionist in their tarif systems to try and build internal competency and competitiveness with more value add activities. They don’t want to become yet another country of muscle for sale.
IMHO,
Michael.michael – g’day. thanks for that you make good points but sometimes life is simple.
marc wants a flat tax system and doesnt believe in charity omongst other things. they are signs of weakness according to him.
ps – i already have masters in economics – good luck with yours.
Originally posted by MichaelWhyte:
Greg F, Merry Christmas! Nice pressie!! …My wife and I are flying up to Hamilton Island on Saturday (don’t mean to gloat [cap]) for a week sailing around the Whitsundays.[biggrin] Anyway, a lot of money tends to flow this time of year, and most of it not directed towards investments. Greg, you’re an exception to the rule. Well done! Merry Christmas all, Michael. [xmas]G’day Michael
A whole week? Yachting in the Whitsundays? Now you two have got my JEALOUSY GLAND really pumpin’
When are you two driving up our way to check out your own block of land? [biggrin]
BTW, thanks for finding the Santa Claus icon for me [xmas] Merry Xmas [xmas]
Greg
call me simple, but I’d like to see more in the western world be it people or companies doing more to help those in poorer countries. It’s not an achievement to be born where you’re born.
I typed out a much longer response, but lost it. Damn.
Also marc, my remark:
Why would journos write articles that weren’t of interest to anyone? Doesn’t make much sense to me.
Came from your statement of the bleeding obvious:
Articles in a newspaper have one single solitary purpuse, and it is: sell the paper.
Again I ask, why would people write articles that weren’t of interest to anyone? Of course they want to sell the paper.
Anyway, for a bloke who clearly thinks himself enlightened and invokes the name of God at the end of his posts you seem pretty intolerant and close minded from some of the things you write marc. That’s just my interpretation.
Gotta go and write something for the news now. Hope I can manipulate the viewers.
Cheers
rAussierogue,
Thanks for the well wishes with my masters, but its an MBA not a M-Ec. I know, before anyone jumps in, these aren’t worth the paper they’re printed on nowadays. [biggrin] But hey, it let me at least understand the posts on economics so that’s a good thing. I actually enjoyed the Applied Micro-Economics subject a lot (makes me a sick puppy I know), but it sorted of pulled a lot of stuff together for me. Basic demand/supply curves, economies of scale/scope, market interventions, net social gain/surplus etc etc. Really interesting stuff. I’m still a Leftist greenie hippy type tho’…
Greg, Don’t worry. A trip up to your neck of the woods is definately on the cards. My wife’s parents have actually moved to Bundy now so we’ve got another excuse to go check out the block of land. I found out from Kay that its actually at Goondoon Rd Bundgadoo (sp?), and not actually in Bundaberg itself. But hey it was a lifestyle purchase and not part of some grand investment strategy. I trust you and Niki are well? As for the Whitsundays, we’re chartering a 10m Catemaran (Seawind 1000) so we can hop from mooring to mooring. We did this for our honeymoon and in so doing went in to a draw to win a prize. You guessed it, this trip (value $3K) is the prize!
Some people are just born lucky, the rest of us have to make our own luck and feel blessed when something like this just falls in our laps.
Hey Richmond, I feel your pain. I too have typed the mega-post only to click a smilie and for some reason lose the lot. Or bump the old escape key and lose it all. Smarts don’t it… [biggrin]
Merry Christmas all,
Michael.[santa][santa2][santa3][xmas]
Originally posted by richmond:
Gotta go and write something for the news now. Hope I can manipulate the viewers. Cheers rG’day Richmond
Thought you were being happily ironic,[biggrin] so checked out your Member Profile. Here’s what I found:
Marital Status: married Gender: Male
Occupation: TV producer – Ch 9 News
More about richmond Hobbies: Manipulating and controlling the flow of information to the masses. Latest News: just married, approaching 30… is life over?I love it!! A Ch 9 TV producer whose favourite hobby is manipulating and controlling the flow of information to the masses. Keep up the great work.
Cheers
Greg [biggrin][cap]I should change that profile, I’m 30 now, but the more I read these boards, the more I get confused as to whether I’m virtuous, evil, rich, poor… so many conflicting emotions.
Ah well, it’s 6.12pm, tonight’s bulletin is halfway over now, heads around Melbourne are being screwed with… my work here is done.
Off to celebrate the 1st anniversary with my wife.
Cheers
rOriginally posted by richmond:
I should change that profile, I’m 30 now, but the more I read these boards, the more I get confused as to whether I’m virtuous, evil, rich, poor… so many conflicting emotions. Ah well, it’s 6.12pm, tonight’s bulletin is halfway over now, heads around Melbourne are being screwed with… my work here is done. Off to celebrate the 1st anniversary with my wife. Cheers rG’day R
All jokes aside, mate, congratulations on your 1st of many happy Wedding Anniversaries. [biggrin][biggrin][biggrin]
As a very happily married father of 4 grown up kids with 5 gorgeous grandchildren, I can tell you that this money thing is just a necessary sideline to the “main game”….
….It’s called “Family and Friends”, and the real secret is to make sure you focus all your energies on becoming your partner’s best friend in the whole wide world. This sex thing is like the icing on the cake, and Friendship is the cake itself. You can do without icing for a while (though it’s very, very nice). But you can’t do without the cake, right?
Have a great, family centred Xmas
GregArticles in a newspaper have one single solitary purpuse, and it is: sell the paper.Again I ask, why would people write articles that weren’t of interest to anyone? Of course they want to sell the paper.]
Perhaps I was a bit criptic, let see if I can rephrase.
What is the purpuse of a newspaper or a TV station for that matter?
Answer: make money.
How do they make money?
Answer: selling advertising and papers.
Does it matter what is written in the paper of what shows on TV?
Answer: as long as it helps to sell, no-one cares.So back to our jurno, must he print something that is true? Scientifically proven? undersigned by heads of state? Confirmed by renowned philosophers?
Certainly not, anything that he can bang together with a lot of stock phrases and average bloke mentality stuff will do, the only important bit is that MOST PEOPLE LIKE IT so it helps to sell. It does not matter if it is true or not, it just must sell.Uhuu I hope this time I was clear.
PS
You don’t like my signature?[angry2]
It irritates you? [blink]
I am not pious enough for it?[confused2]
Should I change it for “Have a good one?”[biggrin]The purpose of my signature is not to tell others “I am more Godly than you”, but to say that all prosperity comes from Him, (in my opinion anyway). Since this is a forum allegedly interested in how to prosper, it is a fit reminder that whatever we have we have because He provided it. Simple…[cap]
May God prosper you always.[biggrin]
Marc[inlove][inlove][inlove]
Awww Richmond!!! Congratulations on 1st year!! My other half and I are coming up to our third in January and we are thankful for each other every day. Even those days we are ready to kill each other, a second thought always comes to my head, “He might be pissing me off now, but what would it really be like without him…” My crappy mood would almost always stop… Sigh… Love, you gotta love it…Have a wonderful night and congratulations again.
It’s ok. You can be greedy with love tonight…Steph.[inlove]
Success is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration.
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