All Topics / Finance / Need some clarification with my loan structure

Viewing 19 posts - 1 through 19 (of 19 total)
  • Profile photo of kat13kat13
    Participant
    @kat13
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 44

    We have refinanced our own property and with that have created an offset account. Now we have a second loan attached as well which will be interest only for a period of 5 years. I have done the online calculators and there doesn’t seem to be a huge difference with the two so it will be manageable and plus I will be finished uni in 2 years meaning I’ll be back to fulltime work.

    My question is – do I need to refinance when interest only ends to keep it going at interest only, or is the whole strategy – by the time 5 years is up, the rent will have gone up and some capital growth so I can then look at a second IP? (Hope that made sense)

    Profile photo of Jamie MooreJamie Moore
    Participant
    @jamie-m
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 5,069

    Hi Kat

    Generally speaking (and I don't have a clue about what your situation looks like), you'd roll the IO period over for another term of 5 or so years. For some lenders, it's a form you need to complete – for others, it's a new application.

    Cheers

    Jamie

    Jamie Moore | Pass Go Home Loans Pty Ltd
    http://www.passgo.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Mortgage Broker assisting clients Australia wide Email: [email protected]

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    If its an investment loan and you have private non deductible debt then it is more beneficiarial to keep paying down the personal debt first – hence IO on the investment to free up cash.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of kat13kat13
    Participant
    @kat13
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 44

    So pay extra in my current mortgage for my house I am living in and roll over the investment into another period of IO? Makes sense in a way, I was very confused about the benefits of doing IO as it seems the difference is really small between paying IO and P&I so I thought it might be better to pay P&I on the investment, that way by the time I retire it should be paid off and just be straight income.

    Profile photo of RachelaRachela
    Member
    @rachela
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 7

    I am confused about this too and had the same question.

    My accountant has recommended IO to me for my currently property, soon to become my investment. I understand why – but what I don't understand it, how do you ever pay it off then?
    I had planned to pay it off so that when I retire it will be an income stream.

    I have seen advice on here that says have a redraw or offset so that you can pay it off by paying the principle equivalent payments without actually reducing the interest, then presumable if you ever do have enough in the redraw/offset you can just pay it off, getting the same result. Maybe the person that posted this advice (James?) might comment?

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    Don't use a redraw loan as this is totally different to an offset and you will be worse off in the long run.

    IO loans eventually change to PI so if you keep the loan for 30 years it will be paid off. But the main reason not to use PI on an investment loan is that you will be paying down deductible debt. It may be ok once you have paid off your non deductible home loan, but if you are paying PI on an investment this will lead to your wasting money by paying more tax.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of RachelaRachela
    Member
    @rachela
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 7

    Thanks Terry – could you explain why a redraw is different to a offset?

    Both my bank and my accountant have said they have basically the same effect?

    It is because a redraw changes the actual interest charged (that is therefore deductible) whereas an offset doesn't? Or is that completely wrong?

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    eg.

    $100,000 investment loan.
    $1000 cash.

    You could
    1. Park the cash in the loan or
    2. Park the cash in the offset

    Interest result would be exactly the same

    BUT

    When you put money into a loan this is a repayment, and
    When you take money out of a loan this is a new loan

    So with 1, you put $1000 into a loan of $100,000 and the balance becomes $99,000.
    If you take $1000 out of the loan to buy a new ivory back scatcher the loan will now be 99% investment related and 1% personal related.

    Only 99% of the interest will be deductible.

    If you were to do that the next month then the deductible portion will be $99,000 – ($1000 x 99%) = $98,001

    You can imagine that after 10 years or so you could have a $100,000 loan still, assuming IO, but with a deductible balance of maybe $50,000.

    Whereas if you had used an IO loan with a 100% offset then you would have a $100,000 loan with all of it deductible.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of Daneo79Daneo79
    Participant
    @daneo79
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 31

    where can I get a black ivory back scratcher?

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    Mr Burns maybe?

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of RachelaRachela
    Member
    @rachela
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 7

    Terry – very clear – thanks for taking the time to explain. Offset it is!

    Profile photo of jmsracheljmsrachel
    Participant
    @jmsrachel
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 711

    Terry, are you based in Victoria? I would honestly pay top dollar for your advice. You make it really easy to understand, even my dog gets it

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    Your dog is actually a client of mine. Is his name Boris?

    No, I am located in Sydney unfortunately.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of jmsracheljmsrachel
    Participant
    @jmsrachel
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 711

    That's a real shame. You are one of a few people that can actually explain a concept without causing a headache. Looks like i will need to look up to Boris for answers.

    Profile photo of Jamie MooreJamie Moore
    Participant
    @jamie-m
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 5,069

    Are you claiming depreciation on Boris? I remember Terry mentioned that he'd depreciated a dog before ;-)

    Cheers

    Jamie

    Jamie Moore | Pass Go Home Loans Pty Ltd
    http://www.passgo.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Mortgage Broker assisting clients Australia wide Email: [email protected]

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213
    jmsrachel wrote:
    That's a real shame. You are one of a few people that can actually explain a concept without causing a headache. Looks like i will need to look up to Boris for answers.

    Thanks for your comments. I have been explaining these things so long now I know what is easily digestible.

    I must say there are thousands of consumers out there who have it all wrong and will be in serious trouble if audited. Most accountants have no idea. same with the brokers and even the lawyers.

    I know one lawyer that transfers borrowed money to a savings account to pay for investment expenses. He didn't know this could remove the ability to claim the interest. Other lawyer friends have no idea about trusts or asset protection etc. Very few people are set up effectively.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of DerekDerek
    Member
    @derek
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 3,544
    jmsrachel wrote:
    That's a real shame. You are one of a few people that can actually explain a concept without causing a headache. Looks like i will need to look up to Boris for answers.

    Hi Rachel,

    Don't forget the big picture on your journey.

    Do you think Terry's advice is 'worth' more than a Melb – Syd airfare.

    I know people who fly across the country for 'good advice' – might be the best money you ever spend.

    jasonlheath
    Participant
    @jasonlheath
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 12
    kat13 wrote:
    So pay extra in my current mortgage for my house I am living in and roll over the investment into another period of IO? Makes sense in a way, I was very confused about the benefits of doing IO as it seems the difference is really small between paying IO and P&I so I thought it might be better to pay P&I on the investment, that way by the time I retire it should be paid off and just be straight income.

    This is a scenario I am interested in hearing more info about… if you pay off a house you are living in and then want to buy and move to another place (and rent out the existing house), wont you be in the situation of living in a house with a non-deductible debt, and owning an investment property with no debt? Any legal way to refinance to make it more tax efficient?

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213
    jasonlheath wrote:
    kat13 wrote:
    So pay extra in my current mortgage for my house I am living in and roll over the investment into another period of IO? Makes sense in a way, I was very confused about the benefits of doing IO as it seems the difference is really small between paying IO and P&I so I thought it might be better to pay P&I on the investment, that way by the time I retire it should be paid off and just be straight income.

    This is a scenario I am interested in hearing more info about… if you pay off a house you are living in and then want to buy and move to another place (and rent out the existing house), wont you be in the situation of living in a house with a non-deductible debt, and owning an investment property with no debt? Any legal way to refinance to make it more tax efficient?

    Yes that is the case.

    Refinancing involves replacing one loan with another so this isn't possible. There are some strategies which involve selling the interest in the property to an associated person such as spouse or a trust etc.

    In some state a sale to a spouse can be done without stamp duty. So this offers a great opportunity to restructure yourself tax effectively.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

Viewing 19 posts - 1 through 19 (of 19 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic. If you don't have an account, you can register here.