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  • Profile photo of Istvan051Istvan051
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    @istvan051
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 221

    Hang on, if I was able to become appointer, I would be able to distribute income to both myself and my father by instructing the trustee. Additionally If I was the appointer the trust assets would be safe from attack from the new wife with the eventual passing of my father. right?

    Profile photo of Istvan051Istvan051
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    @istvan051
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    Post Count: 221

    Or, alternatively, if I cant get away with that I may be able to convince the family to create dad as the next appointer with me as the next appointer after him. So when dad passes I become the next appointer and ultimately the control of assets are passed to me.

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    If you were appointor you could appoint yourself as trustee and then distribute yourself all of hte trust assets.

    A director is not part of the trust, but part of the company which may be the trustee of the trust.

    Yes I have heard of specal disability trusts. You should look at getting one of these set up under your grandfather's will. Lots of tax and centrelink advantages.

    Having assets in a trust does not stop a wife or exwife from making a claim under the Family Law Act also under the Succession laws she could still make a family provision claim with the trust assets forming part of the estate under a notional estate order – but this will depend on the situation. The further your father is from it the better. but you also have to think about yourself and what if you get married etc.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of Istvan051Istvan051
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    @istvan051
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    "A director is not part of the trust, but part of the company which may be the trustee of the trust"

    I think my grandfathers company is the trustee and my grandfather is the director. The current and future appointers I have no idea. For a while I was thinking that the directors role was to direct the trustee on how to distrubute income. But that would be the appointer, hense why I asked you to contrast the roles to help me understand.

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    The appointor doesn't direct the trustee. They just appoint the trustee. it is up to the trustee to make their own decisions. A director directs the trustee indirectly if their company is the trustee because the directors of the company are the brains behind it.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of Istvan051Istvan051
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    @istvan051
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    Post Count: 221

    But yet the appointer is in control of the assets of the trust and how they are distributed to beneficiaries?
    Complex, how do they do that if they are not able to direct the trustee and only appoint (Give job).

    Profile photo of Istvan051Istvan051
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    @istvan051
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    Okay, so lets pretend im a trustee then my role is to look at a property portfolio and decide how income is to be paid to beneficiaries. Appointer assigns a job to me and could fire me if he/she wanted. if the apointer happens to be one of the beneficiaries then it can assign someone to be a trustee but cannot directly control how beneficiaries are paid.

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Lets use your grandfather as an example. I am only guessing here too.

    Trustee is XYZ Pty Ltd with GF as director and 2 shares held by GF and GM.

    The trust is set up so that Bart Simpson is the Appointor. Bart is the friend and accountant of GF and GM.

    GF and GM die. They leave the shares of the trustee company XYZ Pty Ltd to you Stephen. You think great, I now control the trust and I will get the trust to buy myself a car and holiday home.

    Bart thinks I don't like Stephen so he sacks XYZ Pty Ltd and appoints his wife as trustee. Each year the wife distirbutes all the income to herself and Bart.

    You protest, but cannot do anything legally as the deed states the trustee has discretion on who to distirbute to.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Ps the only thing to prevent Bart's wife from doing that above is if she or Bart were not beneficiaries. But they could get around this by distributing to a company set up so as to be a beneficiary.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    PPSS

    They could also have the deed amended so as to make themselves beneficiaries – this may mean stamp duty and CGT would be payable on the whole estate, but this may be small considering the overall benefits to be gained.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of Istvan051Istvan051
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    @istvan051
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    Post Count: 221

    Thats quite unethical. To start with I dont think you are supposed to be friends with your accountant in order to acheive altererior
    motives like taking control of a trust. Totally unprofessional. But it is the perfect example its not what you know but who!
    Bart is not really supposed to know that GF and GM have died, but just happened to know as they were his friends!

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    It doesn't have to be your accountant. It happens with some families such as brothers and sisters.

    There is one case with a dad and a SMSF. Dad died and the daughter was also a part of the fund. She distributed all the fund to herself and none to her brother as per instructions in the Dad's will. Because super doesn't form part of the will and the fact that she followed the law she got everything.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of Istvan051Istvan051
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    @istvan051
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 221

    Yeh well imagine if as a trustee you were having a secret relationship with your appointer (Also a beneficiary).

    Profile photo of Istvan051Istvan051
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    @istvan051
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 221

    I just had a couple words to my father about the appointer. He wants to know if the appointer could also be refered to as a executor?

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Executor is usually the personal representative of the testator in someone's will.

    I haven't heard about an appointor role being called an executor, but it is possible.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of Istvan051Istvan051
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    @istvan051
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 221

    Thanks for all your help Terryw,

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    I just received an email from http://www.lawcentral.com.au. If you join up with them, free, you can go through the motions of preparing documents with tips given on the way.

    • Update for Bamford

      Do you need to change the Trustee of your Family Trust? Do you need to change the Appointor or the Backup Appointor? Use this Family Trust – Update Rules, Appointor or Trustee kit to make the changes. This also allows you to update your trust to fully comply with recent changes to the law. Family Trust deeds should be updated every 4 years. Every Family Trust needs updating after the High Court handed down the recent Bamford decision this year.

    • Update corporate trustee

      You can nominate a company as the trustee for your family trust. The company holds the trust assets in its name as the legal owner. The Trustee does whatever the Appointor tells them to. This includes distributing profits. You can be both the Appointor and Trustee. Use this Family Trust – Update Rules, Appointor or Trustee kit to make the changes.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of Istvan051Istvan051
    Member
    @istvan051
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 221

    "You can be both the Appointor and Trustee"

    Thats interesting, didnt think that would be possible.

    Profile photo of Istvan051Istvan051
    Member
    @istvan051
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 221

    Considering the price how nessasary do you think the kit really is? I mean cant I just change the trust deed with the permission of my grandfather?

    Also, noticed they have an alternate name for the appointer, principal. I was reading a book on family trusts last night were they refered to it as guardian. Wish they would just make up their mind, lol.

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    Only the trustee can change the deed. But this depends on the wording of the deed.If you get it wrong the costs could be enormous.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

Viewing 20 posts - 41 through 60 (of 146 total)

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