All Topics / General Property / Manage my own investment property?

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  • Profile photo of manicmanic
    Member
    @manic
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 10

    Hi,
    I currently have a 3 bed apartment rented out with tenants that I get along with but the place is managed through an agent. It's in a quality inner city location that primarily attracts students.

    I have found that the agent simply acts as a relay and I tend to fix all problems or get tradespeople in myself because my own contacts are better than the agents. I am thinking of cutting out the agent and saving myself $120 per month on agents fees (I know it's deductible).

    Can anyone else who is managing their own property shed some light on how easy/difficult it is? The main value I found with our agent was that when the previous tenants provided notice to vacate they had someone lined up straight away and the place was vacant for a only a week, but I guess I could do this too.

    Thanks in advance.

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    What about putting the rent up?

    When you try they may come to you with a sob story about how their cat needs a heart transplant and they can't afford to pay the rent. Are you tough enough to say stuff the cat, or would you reduce the rent?

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of manicmanic
    Member
    @manic
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 10

    Good point. My agent did proactively suggest a price increase which actually made the last tenants vacate. We did however get new tenants at a higher rate almost immediately. I can always do my own research to counter that.

    When interest rates go up I can give them my sob story about having to pay more interest.

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    As long as you are tough enough.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of maree_bradrossmaree_bradross
    Member
    @maree_bradross
    Join Date: 2007
    Post Count: 401

    Don't do – been there and got burnt!

    If you do go ahead with self managing, only give the tenant your mobile phone number and use a post office box in a suburb over.

    Do you live in the same state as the property? If you need to go to VCAT you have to attend the hearing in the location of the property.

    Profile photo of number 8number 8
    Participant
    @number-8
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 333

    I self manage 10 properties: I cannot and would never use a managing agent. Several reasons include:

    1. Selectivity of tenants. I know better than anyone, the type of person or family that would be suitable for my properties. i.e. I know a large family would not be suitable for a particular property due to the small bathroom etc. This stops the constant change of tenants. I also like to have a chat with the perspective tenants. From this I learn plenty.

    2. Open communication, this is in fact a positive. When my kitchen sink is leaking into the walls, I want to know today not in one week, when the weekend has passed and John is back from sick leave.

    3. The reduced cost can be given to the tenant. You than have the best looked after tenant in the neighbourhood.

    4. While you are not paying for the first two weeks rent on change of tenants etc you have extra money to add towards the property. I call these gifts to the tenant.

    5. Property inspections are completed by me as is required. I find that the tenants I select no longer require a property inspection. It is more of a respect thing that builds up over time. From the tenant’s point of view, they do not want big brother over-seeing. I often find it strange that you can say I trust that you can live in my house, but I have to check up four times a year for the rest of your life. This is an insult to any adult. I am not saying do not inspect. But there comes a point, where you feel comfortable with your tenants.

    6. While you have a good relationship with your tenants it is easier and more efficient to complete repairs. e.g. let’s go with the worst case scenario. I receive a phone call on a Sunday afternoon while I am at a BBQ. The tenant says "Leigh I have a toilet that while not turn off". When you do not have a relationship. An afterhour’s plumber enters the building and fixes the problem at Sunday rates for $400. When you do have a relationship. I ask how much damage is it causing, can they turn of the tap behind the toilet while they are not using. And when is the best time to send a plumber? As they are happy to help me out with dollars they suggest Tuesday around 10:30, I organise and it was a washer and a call out rate of $80.00 = $95 in total. While people tight for $10 extra rent, I just made $305. Further, I often find it something that it completed by the tenant or I can fix in minutes. It all comes down to communication, openness and honesty. What goes around comes around! I once had a complete picket fence built for me by a tenant (Free- They want to live there for life). This relationship is generally not built with managing agents.

    7. Increasing rent is easily resolved; it is a simple letter and can be mirrored with the CPI or like for any uncertainty (This can all be outlined at the start of the agreement).

    I am not suggesting this is for everyone, but for those positive, open minded people, it is definitely a very sound concept that I have built my fortune on. You could also throw in this mix Pro-active.

    Oh that's right one further. It may allow you to become a property partnership (a real business)! What another nice little perk!

    Self managing properties are highly recommended by me, although not essential.

    http://www.birchcorp.com.au

    Profile photo of CatalystCatalyst
    Participant
    @catalyst
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 1,404

    I have self managed one IP that came with tenants, with no issues.
     My main concern is about sourcing tenants.

    How do you source your tenants?  Where do you advertise etc?

     How do you get info about rental defaults etc.

    Profile photo of Jamie MooreJamie Moore
    Participant
    @jamie-m
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 5,069

    I prefer self managing and agree with much of what Number8 said above.

    When our properties were being professionally managed, we generally organised the maintenance and had to remind the property managers about inspections, leases expiring, rent increases, etc. Now we're in control – we select the tenants, carry out routine inspections and quickly respond to any problems as they occur. The savings each month is also a bonus.

    Jamie Moore | Pass Go Home Loans Pty Ltd
    http://www.passgo.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Mortgage Broker assisting clients Australia wide Email: [email protected]

    Profile photo of lbluedentolbluedento
    Participant
    @lbluedento
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 98

    We self managed when we lived in the same city but now we live 1000kms away it is easier to have a professional manager. We have properties in 2 states and live in neither state! Also there are certainly some property managers to avoid at all costs and then there are those who are onto everything. We were originally told to go with a manager who doesn’t have too many properties but I no longer agree as ours has heaps (nearly a thousand and it’s in a regional area!). There are a few property managers in the agency and I think their expertise is worth it. Also both my husband and I work full time and have a young family so we don’t have the time at this point to manage our own properties. It all depends on your situation.

    Ruth

    Profile photo of www.forsaleforlease.com.auwww.forsaleforlease.com.au
    Participant
    @www-forsaleforlease-com-au
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 8

    I you are prepared deal with the tenants, maintenance and rent increases. Then the only reason you could not be as successful as your local estate agent will be when it comes to finding a new tenant. If it takes you two more weeks than an agent then the saving will be lost. This is where my business could help you. It is critical to advertise on all the top industry portals to make sure you find the best tenant who will pay the highest price in the quickest time. 

    Profile photo of EsselleEsselle
    Member
    @esselle
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 3

    Manage them yourself particularly if you already have good tenants in place, I have always managed my 3 IP's (bar a 6 month period) and sometimes its a pain but I feel the agents just aren't worth the money. I have had a few dodgy tenants – one became a speed addict and turned on his girlfriend regularly, the other quit his job to deal drugs and messed my house up but we got through and had insurance. Ended up selling that house though cos despite it being nice seemed to attract these kind of people.
    As for having a house vacant between tenants if you are organised  with your advertising it shouldn't be too much of problem. Its better to have a vacant house and wait for the right tenant than get someone in just to get rent. Always check references though and with their employer.

    Profile photo of Naremburn123Naremburn123
    Member
    @naremburn123
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 61

    Hi Manic,

    I think you should at least give it a go. My sister and I have managed 2 IP's for years and never had problems. Ultimately when there's big problems, you have to deal with them anyway even when you have a property manager.

    You can get a residential tenancy kit from most newsagents, which has the lease agreement, property condition form and the bond form. It costs ten dollars and is pretty easy to follow.

    My advice is also do your due diligence. Call peoples references and be thorough. With residential leases, they tend to favour the tenant.

    Oh and one other tip, once a lease lapses, and becomes periodical, you must give 60 days notice to the tenant to vacate. There's little things like that that can catch you out.

    Good luck!

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213
    Dean Potter wrote:
    Oh and one other tip, once a lease lapses, and becomes periodical, you must give 60 days notice to the tenant to vacate. There's little things like that that can catch you out.

    Good luck!

    This may vary from State to State.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of manicmanic
    Member
    @manic
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 10

    Wow….thanks for the time and effort put in to provide great responses all.

    I'm going to give it a go. It will save me up to $1,440 a year which is a fair whack and I have a decent network of tradespeople having lived in Melbourne my whole life. Plus I'm fairly hands on for small repairs myself. I have been making all the major decisions and responding to tenants questions myself anyway.

    I may go through an agent to source me a tenant however as they would have easier access to advertising tools, a list of potential tenants, background screening, etc.

    I'll check out that residential tenancy kit and read up on my/tenants rights.

    Thanks again all.

    Profile photo of manicmanic
    Member
    @manic
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 10

    I've had a chat to the tenant and they are OK to cut out the agent and sign a new lease. The good news is they are looking to stay at least until the end of next year. So far steps I think I need to take are:
    1. Obtained the standard Tenancy agreement from here:
    http://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/CA256902000FE154/Lookup/CAV_Forms_Residential_Tenancy/$file/TenancyAgreement.pdf

    2. Organise bond transfer with agent and send to RTBA

    3. Agree cutover date with agent

    4. Perform condition report

    5. Provide tenant with 'Renting a Home' booklet.

    Is there anything else you can think of that I've missed?

    Profile photo of number 8number 8
    Participant
    @number-8
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 333

    It is not about the $1440 in saving. It is about the respect and relationship that is built with your tenant. While they are looking after your investment ($500k property returns $50k p.a. on historical records). You should not worry about the small expense. My reasons for self managing is not dollars, they are for the listed reasons:  flexibility, peace of mind, confidence and the ability to ensure my tenants are provided with the care and attention they deserve.

    I am concerned when I read comments as shown below…… 

    "If you are prepared to deal with the tenants, maintenance and rent increases. Then the only reason you could not be as successful as your local estate agent will be when it comes to finding a new tenant. If it takes you two more weeks than an agent then the saving will be lost. This is where my business could help you. It is critical to advertise on all the top industry portals to make sure you find the best tenant who will pay the highest price in the quickest time"

    Given this is a plug for the industry portals as mentioned, this comment has value, but if your margins are only two weeks and you require the highest price than purchasing an investment property may not be the right decision for you. Becoming a Property investor is a mindset that is developed over many years. It is not about screwing the tenant for a dollar, or positive gearing, or receiving the most rent etc. It is simply doing the math and applying common sense to your strategy, allowing for expenses such as vacancy, being selective and being the best landlord in town. 

    Further, I am never tight on cash when it comes to my tenants (read the numbers for what they are – refer below). My tenants are and always will be looked after in at great lengths. I always look at costs of my rental properties in the following way:

    Investment Property value : $500K     growth in 10yrs  and new value : $1M (assumptions past performance since 1926 is similar to future performances) – Profit  = $50K p.a.

    Buy the tenant new fly screens for windows and a letter box- Do not pay from your wallet: Borrow this and your cost is only 7% x $550 = 74c per week less tax deduction at the Marginal tax rate of 31.5% (includes medicare levy) Total Cost = 51c per week . In fact, if you buy items that have depreciation allowance in the first year (i.e. As a small business I receive 100% depreciation allowance for items under $1000) than you will receive $173.25 back in your pocket. This will cover your $550 for six and half years, not that, 51c a week is much to worry about. Note: I do not have a problem spending $2-4K p.a. on gifts for my tenants. $50k- $4k = $46k. Not bad for a years work (well several hours per week anyway). I call this not being greedy or giving some of your $50k back to the people who make you wealthy.

    I appreciate there are other costs, but when you look at the numbers and you look at this property game as a business I would say it is not a bad result?  Outlay an extra 51c to help provide a stable $50k p.a. income.

    When doing property investments the margins are not that fine, yet as most investors are Mums and Dads they fail to see the real DOLLARS and SENSE. Think like a business. Look after your tenants…………

    http://www.birchcorp.com.au

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