All Topics / Help Needed! / What is the wisest decision?

Viewing 13 posts - 1 through 13 (of 13 total)
  • Profile photo of MavozMavoz
    Member
    @mavoz
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 4

    Hi,
    My wife and I are currently considering a move back to a country town from Melbourne. This naturally presents the need for a new home to live in if we relocate.

    This presents us with a few options…what would you do? What is the wisest decison?

    Current property assets
    Current Home  – Outer Eastern Melbourne suburb – 4Br 2bath value $400,000 – no mortgage. (Could achieve $400 week rent)
    Investment Unit Inner West Melbourne – value $200,000 – $9000 mortgage. Rental return $220 a week.

    Future Home in country town would cost $300,000 – $400,000. (one gets a lot more for your dollar there)

    Option 1:

    Sell our current home for $400,000, keep investment unit, buy new country home outright $330,000.

    Leaves $50,000 after expenses to invest in another "positive cash flow" property somewhere with tax advantage of this being an investment property.

    Option 2:

    Sell unit for $200,000
    Buy country home for $330,000
    Take out mortgage of $130,000.

    Keep current home as rental at $400 per week.

    Option 3:

    Keep both unit and Melbourne home. (perhaps Melbourne is a good place to hold property?)
    Take out mortgage of $330,000 for country home.

    Unit and current home will bring in $620 per week which should nearly cover mortage repayments on new home.

    Other options?

    Thanks for any tips or advice!

    Profile photo of karen.karen.
    Member
    @karen.
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 196

    im no guru – im very very green.  but u did ask "what would you do?"!!!  so u brought this noob opinion onto yourself  :)

    but if i were u i would be going with option 3.  because u owe nothing on that house, that is pure profit u are bringing in.  u arent having to pay interest on that house.  and itll just keep going up and up in value.  so just say u sell the house in 3 years instead, u would have an additional $62k (minus tax, PM fees etc) from rent charged, plus also the extra capital growth on the property.  I dont know about Melbourne real estate, but I assume that would have to be over $100k between the rent and CG for the three years?

    id be using this money to help pay off the new mortgage in the country.

    but i wouldnt be surprised if someone comes back and says that my opinion isnt the best option – as i said, im a noob who is just learning :)

    Profile photo of joshua.moorejoshua.moore
    Member
    @joshua.moore
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 14

    Hi there Mavoz,

    What you do depends ultimately on how long you plan to move for. Personally, if I was considering a move with the above situation, I would choose option four:

    1. Keep both houses.
    2. Rent out your Melbourne house ($400 a week).
    3. Use the income from one/both houses to rent a house in the country.

    If the rent from both of your properties would cover the cost of living, why go through the hassle of selling in a buyers market? Rent instead. This way you can move back also if needed, and you are not taking on anymore debt, while still having your current properties as investments.

    This is actually using your passive income that you have currently created to reduce your living expenses, without having to sell anything.

    Just my two cents, but up to you champ!

    Profile photo of ducksterduckster
    Participant
    @duckster
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 1,674

    Option 3 – Ask yourself where is PPOR exemption going to be on the country house or remain for 6 years on the city house.
    If you move the PPOR to country house you need to get a valuation done on the City house as it is no longer PPOR and you need to establish cost base for future Capital Gains Tax event ie selling .

    Profile photo of MavozMavoz
    Member
    @mavoz
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 4

    Thanks for all the feedback – much appreciated!

    Yes – the idea of keeping the two properties in Melbourne is certainly appealing – Melbourne seems like a market that in the long term will always be in demand…and in the short term it also brings in a steady income stream.

    My only concern is that if we end up with a large mortgage on the new home we purchase and live in we miss out on some of the potential tax savings that can be made if a mortgage is instead on an investment property…

    I don't fully understand this…but I think there are benefits in things like depreciation and being able to claim mortgage expenses as tax deductible items?

    Anyway thanks again for the feedback…a significant amount of money is involved for us so we want to play our cards right!

    Profile photo of crjcrj
    Participant
    @crj
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 618

    What names is your existing PPOR in?  If in joint names, lower income earner sell half share to higher income earner who borrows $200K, interest on this is tax deductible.  Lower income earner puts $200K down on new PPOR, and you borrow $130K tax deductible.

    Or form a discretionary trust which buys existing PPOR and you guarantee the trust's borrowings using your new PPOR.  You will need to consider ongioing costs and other expenses such as land tax.

    You have not considered CGT consequences on sale of investment unit.  But you could do the same therre by one buying the other out.

    Profile photo of carpe_diemcarpe_diem
    Participant
    @carpe_diem
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 76

    I think this may have already been covered but remember if you rent out the Melbourne home and rent out a home in the country you can do this for 6 or maybe it's 7 years and as long as you move back into the Melbourne house you don't pay capital gains tax as the Melbourne home remains the family home .    If you buy a country house to live in then immediately it becomes the family residence and hence the clock starts for capital gains tax liability on the Melbourne house that is being rented and of course there is no such liability for the country home.  You probably don't want to rent a house in the country as it seems you've made your minds up this is where you want to live.  The rent on the Melbourne house is only 5%  and you borrow  for the country house with interest at around 5% then you're making nothing other than some capital growth on the Melbourne house which will be subject to capital gains tax when it is sold.  If you sell the Melbourne house and buy outright your country home and reinvest the leftovers in another investment or you can reduce any debt you have on the unit investment.  Your debt is probably low anyway and you could go for another property but we are certainly living in times when it could be wiser for awhile to eliminate as much debt as we can.

    Profile photo of js2js2
    Member
    @js2
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 758

    Personally I would invest in three or four and or more creative positive cashflow investments. Tripling the cash flow then buy a own home in the Country. And good choice going to the Country.

    Basically my approach would be to draw out the least amount of equity in one property at a time borrowing and structuring with 20% deposit down on each investment. As a criteria i would set a min of 10% – 20% Cash on Cash Return for each one. Repeat process. Especially out Country town.

    Would not sell existing holds only because they are not in mortgage dept and will be better off to catch the next rise (even though that is years off). Otherwise i would not be considering buy & hold for capital gains.

    I would be positioning yourself with land that can be developed in the future as building with be the silence momentum that is the underlining driver of the next upswing when it upswings slowly. Perhaps it's a corner block with a large deep block or something that can be developed later on similar. In average to median priced reasonable streets.

    Or take out an offset account on the first, then second etc. Seems you should have good cash-flows and be able to build them up higher from that position.

    At the end of the day go with your gut feel and what seems right for you. No one can tell clearly from in a short forum and or no matter how proffesional they think they are. There are to many variables and only your close intimate knowledge of your circustances can tell and make the best desicion. Period!

    It does not matter how high up on the pedastals they sit and talk crap they can not tell about individual situations.

    Profile photo of carpe_diemcarpe_diem
    Participant
    @carpe_diem
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 76

    Mavoz
    Despite what fairy stuff is said in the last post, remember that the essence of true debate is to seek out all manner of views. Then the real decision can be applied to your individual circumstances.  The purpose of this forum is precisely this otherwise we wouldn't be all on it.  People are not talking crap to you and standing on pedestals ….they are simply making an effort to provide you with a different view or a point to consider.
    Carpe

    Profile photo of MavozMavoz
    Member
    @mavoz
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 4

    Well thanks again for all the posts…it actually is great to get a lot of different opinions…

    I guess 3 factors come into the equation as well for us:

    *Our first child is on the way…country town offers easier lifestyle with family nearby , cheaper living costs and travel needs etc….our own home (that we can setup as a base) is preferable to renting.
    * If we move back to Melbourne it is unlikely we would return to our current home.
    * We want to free up some "working" time to focus on other purposes.

    However at this point I'm thinking:

    * Try to keep both homes in Melbourne….it is a valuable resource that can bring in around $1220 a fortnight income.
    * Save furiosuly until end of year when decision needs to be made…(at present we've got 2 incomes)
    * Get the smallest mortgage possible when the time comes to make the move…while still finding a comfortable/practical home…which is actually a strong argument for the country – a new 4 bed 2 bath home can be had for around $300G

    Thanks again for all the replies…love the food for thought!!

    Profile photo of Steven5000Steven5000
    Member
    @steven5000
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 1

    I currently have a 1 bedroom unit which i purchased back in August 2003. For the 1st year i lived in it but then it has been rented out ever since. If I was to sell it after August 2009 (when 6 years had passed) will CGT Apply?

    Profile photo of moana_fusionmoana_fusion
    Member
    @moana_fusion
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 35

    Hi Mavoz, In your situation I have seen so many people’s accountants advise them quite differently in these scenarios – so if they don’t give you the answer you want, just ask somewhere else. A couple of years ago I dealt with a youngish couple who were moving back to Ballarat to raise their kids in 8-12 months time. They knew that they would lose one income when they moved, and the other one would be reduced by around 30%. So it was important for them to get the new property in Ballarat before they moved and had their income reduced. Their accountant told them to buy their new house in Ballarat as an investment initially and rent it out until they moved there in 10 months time. The purpose of the loan was to buy a new investment property, and he then claimed the interest on it was tax deductible. As their existing house in Melbourne was worth slightly more then the one in Ballarat, when they moved to Ballarat they transferred (ported) the debt on that to their old Melbourne property without having to provide any updated income details – like for like security. Again this is the advice that they were given, and it might not be applicable to your situation. Warm regards,Mike

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    What about considering option 4.

    Keep the 2 existing and rent in the country. You could use the Main residence exemption from CGT on the family home for 6 more years while it is rented. A country property is probably not going to increase in value as much as a city one so this may be more profitable.

    Maybe you could look at buying the new one in a trust and renting it.

    Otherwise I would probaly go for the selling the existing house option and paying cash for the new one.

    However, all this would depend on your long term goals and you would have to work out the rough costs to sell the existing house v the tax savings. You could also just sell the existing one to a trust and keep it.

    You also have plenty of equity so maybe a few more could be purchased too.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

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