Hi everyone.
Just wanted topost the figures I was quoted from an agent interested in selling my property. Property is in Sydney Estimated at 1.2 mil. Two of the larger agencies want full auction marketing and asking advertising fees of $8500 plus 2.5% commission which eqautes to around $33000 inc GST. Unbelievable!!! HAve read the Jenman site and thank god for that!
One other agent seems more viable but haven't sat down with them yet. He thinks Private treaty and put a price on it which I am more for but will be interested to see what other fees they come up with. I just find it incredible that they can ask for all that advertising and then commission that equals an average years income. Any thoughts.Hi Tara,
I'm a fan of what Jenman has to say. I recently read his book. In case you don't know, you can make contact via the website and they will suggest agents in your state/area.
I would certainly recommend reading the book, Don't Sign Anything', especially as you are selling. It seems a lot of people detest him. I really can't understand that. Must be hitting a raw nerve with some people.
Best of luck!
Mark
DON"T GET ME STARTED!! oops; you did.
I am a Jenman fan also Tarae, have read all his books and read his website info every other day. I have already bought and sold several properties, and was an agent myself for a time.
Not everyone likes Neil; he is outspoken and 'takes no prisoners', but someone needs to be doing it, and he has helped many people save money (including me). He has also been instrumental in rescuing many people from terrible rip-offs at the hands of spruikers, conmen and some agents; even lawyers (usually all colluding to do the rip-off).
Also read "13 Real Estate Mistakes" by Neil, and "Confessions of a Real Estate Agent" Terry Ryder (a lawyer; look up his r/e investing website; HotSpotting.com.au)
With advertising, in most cases it is a waste of YOUR money. If you look at the r/e pages of any major newspaper on the weekends, or visit realestate.com, or go to the agent's websites, there will be an enormous amount of houses of all price ranges and configurations to buy. There will advertising banners for the agencies plastered all over the place. The main benefit of all that advertising is for the agents – not you.
I can promise you; the buyers are already looking on the websites, driving the streets looking for signs in frontyards, walking up and down the main streets looking in the agents' windows (have you noticed how many agencies are grouped together?).
All you need is a few flyers for the front desk of the agency, a picture and description in the window and a picture and description on the internet. max cost: $100 for flyers. The photos will be free. The buyers WILL find your property. The agents will always try to sell you the benefits of spending lots on ads. It's all BS.
Commissions are negotiable, and it is one of my personal gripes that an agent (the agency) can get $12,500 for selling a $500k house, and then do the exact same amount of work (or maybe less) to sell a $1 mill house and earn double the money! This is a disgrace; the average person cannot improve their income at all over a year unless their boss gives them a pay rise, but by virtue of a rising market the agents can become rich. Why should they earn so much more for the sale of the same product with the same amount of work? Offer them 1.5%. And don't be put off by the saying 'you pay peanuts; you get monkeys'. That's BS as well. Agents need ANY listing to make a sale, and if they get an enquiry to buy your house, do you think they won't try because they are only getting $18k instead of $30k? They'll be trying; don't worry.
Maybe structure their payment; 1.5% up to $1 mill, then offer more if you wish if they achieve the desired price (that they quoted you). Anyone can sell a house for less than the asking price. If they want 2.5% make them earn it. You can even offer to pay a fixed amoun to sell the place. Agents don't like this, but as I said; the commission is negotiable and if they don't accept your offer you can change it or ask another agent.
The problem is, most people only sell maybe one or two houses in their lives, so don't know what can be done in the process of hiring an agent and buying/selling houses. Lack of knowledge is expensive.
At this point all the agents reading this will be up in arms and saying " but most agents only earn an average income!"
Well, my answer to that is; it's your chosen profession – the majority of the planet is earning an average wage or worse. If you can't earn a lot of money as an agent and don' like that, then find another job.Hi Tara,
After reading your post, I am of the opinion that this is just another stir up for the Jenman cause and I am probably wasting my breath, but here goes.
There are good Butchers and bad Butchers, good Bakers and bad Bakers and good Candlestick makers and bad Candlestick makers just as there are good Agents and bad Agents and good People and bad People. Neil Jenman is just another agent who has learnt to work on peoples natural fear and distrust of any Sales agent and in so doing he tells people what they want to hear in order to tie up the listing just like any other agent. There are as many bad stories as there are good about Neil Jenman, however as it is your property that you are selling, I'll let you learn from your own experience on that issue.
I am however a little surprised that you don't sell it yourself and save the $40,000+ after all according to Marc any mug can sell a property and hey you don't even have to tell people that it is for sale(Advertise). Must remember to put the fridge out on the street to sell. Ohhh! Don't get me started.
Leaving all of the BS alone, I will offer you one piece of advice and you can take it or leave it. The most critical time when selling a property is the first four weeks of marketing. This is the time when the serious Buyers currently in the market place who are educated as to property value will pay the best price for your property. In most instances from this time onwards the sale becomes harder and the price usually drops. The reason for this is perception. Most people believe that if it hasn't sold by now there must be something wrong with it. This perception is the same feeling many people have about Real Estate Agents and guess what – it is a self fulfilling prophecy just like the Secret tells us.
One more piece of advice. Have a look in the paper and around your location and find the agent who has the most signs and best profile and for goodness sake trust him or her to advise you of the best method for your property and you.
Tara, which ever way you choose, I wish you good luch and all the best on the sale of your home, I hope that you have a good experience.
Jon
Hi Tara,
The Jenman system, really is a hindrance when selling ones home. I'm not going to get started on the man, though, just a few facts. Under the 'System', open homes are not done, usually one or 2 pictures are posted on the internet, and very limited advertising. Now with all these 'set ways', how would you intend a agent to sell your property?? especially in such a cut throat market place?????
Ok befor I say anything I would like to say that I actually worked with a Jenman agent so it's up to you to how much you believe what I say but I will do my best to explain my logic.
John was right in saying that there are stories for and against every agent particularly Neil because he exposes many scamers. However saying he is just like any other agent is BS. If you are deciding on Neil's crediability you might want to think why no one questions his research which is a big part of the Jenman system.
I am asuming that you are after the best agent to sell your propety and that is not allways a case of opening the paper and seeing which agent has the most adverts. Just a tip if you want to find the worst look for the sold adverts.
Befor you even go to see an agent as a seller go as a buyer. Ask the questions that no agent should tell a buyer.
. Why are the sellers selling.
. Whats the lowest they will accept.
If they tell you then they will tell the buyer of your home and I would advise you to not use them.As for saying not having open houses is a disadvantage I just cant see the logic. If you want the best price for your home you are looking for the buyer who will pay a fair price for it. The reality is open houses are used to increase the size of the agents database NOT help the seller in any way. Thing about it… why do they take a register of everyone, they only need the serious buyers don't they? The serious buyers are the ones that want to properly discuss the property and if you think they are going to be more forthcoming while other potential buyers are around your dreaming (unless the buyer is stupid) While many people go to open houses many of them are just having a look and I herd many times from people they automatically cross off any properties that have stupid advertising like "Expression of interest" "Price on application" "Auction" and my personal favourite "For Sale By Negociation" < What a joke.
There is less advertising ABSOLUTLY and I will tell you why. Comparing a Jenman agent to a normal agent and their motivations is stupid. Ok why am I saying this…. Jenman agents are payed a salary and i dont mean a retainer I mean a SALARY and a good one at that. Because of this they spend more time actually communicating with their buyers and don't need to get a listing and sell something below its value so they can eat. I saw Million dollar plus homes advertised for 12 hrs and the buyer didnt come from the net or an open house it came from agents communicating with their buyers they know are serious.
The best thing I can say is DONT PAY FOR ADVERTS because good agents dont need them. Like wise for auctions
yay extra money for my first home……. oh wait because they wont release land i will just give it back in land tax
I bough an IP from a "jenman real estate agent" a while back…. they wouldn't let me
'put my lowest offer in & negotiate"… I had to offer my best price & sign a stat. dec. declaring the offer was
my best figure….. I have a fair amount of experience with real estate (unlike many people fortunately) so signed the stat dec.
but still put in my starting offer…. I was not going to be bullied.the vendor then i believe had the unenviable position of an offer being presented to them with a stat. dec. declaring
this was my best offer…. not good for getting the "best price for the vendor" ….pressure is now on the vendor.the same agent then came back to me anyway then trying to get my offer "up"…. I said to him but i have just signed a legal document stating i cannot, as i have already presented my best offer.
a bit dodgey I thought… & told the agent so…
anyhow i did raise my price by a very small amount & was hapy to purchase at that figure…. poor vendors…
I would happily have paid up to $10k more…
I agree with Jon with his post, Jenman does some very good things but he (or his agents) seem to work from an angle of instilling fear in people… (as the agent infrequent flyers were nearly all "beware" type commentaries… & we are the only people that will look after your needs fairly & trustlworthily)… etc etc..
i would have more appeal for Jenman if his agents worked more from an "educational " type angle than fear.this is an isolated story, i know, but does mean that they haven't got it all right i believe…. they are not the real estate Saviours they seem to profess to be.
since then i have nurtured a relationship of trust witha local agent (not Jenman) & have contracted him to sell property & even recommended friends & family to use him… he's honest & that's all i need.
Michael
Michael, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU.
I was beginning to believe that Neil Jenman was the Messiah and I had missed something. Your post reminded me of several stories that I have been told by people who have experienced the other side of the Jenman Conspiracy Theory. What do they say, if it's too good to be true. it probably is.
Jon
Thanks everyone for your comments. I contacted Jenmans and will probably interview one of their agents as well as the others I have in mind. I will remember about the stat dec, that doesn't sound like a good way to negotiate the best price. I am really becoming turned off by the major network real estates though. They constantly ring. One that I have let see the home a couple of times during renovations as I thought it couldn't hurt to get some free advice. During that period she offered to call tradesmen for different jobs to get quotes for me. I thought OK can't hurt and I haven't actually signed anything. I never used any of them but have come to realise this is a tactic to make me feel some obligation for all her "help".
I still won't be ready for sale for another 2 to 3 weeks but she is now calling me to organise "paperwork" and talk about "timing". I have a process that I want to go through:1. Independent valuation ( although I have a good idea of the price through months of research and have watched the market for the past year, also sales reports, and benn to a few open homes in the area that are similiar to mine)
2. Building and pest inspection
3. Interview agents. Have my terms and conditions clear.
4. Choose agent
I want the valuation done as part of my preparation to choosing an agent.
I want the building and pest inspection so I know as much as the buyers who might like to talk the price down on any points.I am not the most assertive person but I need to become that way pretty quick, especially in dealing with RE agents and also TRadespeople ( another story!). This is the first time I have sold a property. Even when I bought My PPOR it was a private sale with a neighbour. I have made some mistakes with the reno (first time project manager) but just don't want to make too big a mistake with RE agent.
All in all has been an intersting journey and have learn't along the way. Experience and mistakes make for greater knowledge.
Soon though I will be doing it all again. I will be buying and building a new place.CAn any one tell me how they negoitated some successful agreements with RE agents? EG commision, term of agreement, advertising costs etc.
Will keep you posted.
Tara
Hi Tarae,
That is alot of commission but certainly NOT unusual (in Vic).
Most commission can be negotiated. Ask for full invoice disclosure on the adverts they are placing on your behalf.
Good agents are hard to find and don't forget that the is a reason that these commissions are on a percentage basis is to protect both parties from wasting their time.
if you are not happy, perhaps ask for a sliding scale of commission.
ie;
1.8% up to 1m
2.2% to 1.1m – 1.2m
2.5% to 1.3m+ etc..hi Tara,
personally I wouldn't waste money on geting a building & pest done…as the purchasers will want their own independent one done probably anyway… if there's a problem when you get to this stage.. maybe get one then…the agent you spoke about has been prospecting you… sure… but maybe that also shows she's active & willing to help.
interviewing agents is good & i would probably do that at another home open as a prospective buyer… i have met an agent at a home open previously & the first thing he said virtually was "they're getting divorced… could get a bargain here". not an agent i would employ myself.
be careful with your pricing too as you need to know what properties actually sold for … not what they're listed at…also a figure a valuer will give you may be the replacement value of your home but may not be the "street market value"…. they're often different…
I find that a good agent will probably not negotiate too much prior to listing… but during the negotiating stage if the deal get's really close you can offer the agent to dip into the commission a bit to get the deal together… when they can see the light (commission) at the end of the tunnel they may just help out… 90% of something is better than 100% of nothing if you catch my drift….
good luck…
Michael
personally i think a written independent valuation involves more than the 'replacement value of your home'. Rather it is based on comparable sales and therefore should alert you to an agent who habitually 'overestimates' the sale value of your home by 20%. Nothing is worse than this as you will usually refuse good offers, and soon fall outside the golden 4 week period. OTOH in a rapidly rising market, the valuation may actually be conservative as prices are rising so rapidly….
good luck with the sale.
i am unsure of the rest of Aus, but in queensland now, when an agent appraises the value of a property he must also submit 3 examples of comparative sales in the area to support his appraisal value… if the property is listed at an inflated rate now it is usually the "vendors price" from my experience… we all think our homes are worth more than maybe they are…sometimes we're right (or snag a good price)… the "you never know price…??"
Whatever you do just DONT USE AUCTIONS or pay for advertising you dont need even if they charge for open houses or big articles. negociate with them on all costs if you are using an agent that charges for advertising, if they dont negociate then chances are they cant do it. And that is not something you want.
WHy do you say dont use auctions? I have been to many an auction where either ego or emotion has resulted in massive over pricing….
I have been to many an auction where either ego or emotion has resulted in massive over pricing….
Agreed, but on the other hand the Jenman crowd will have you believe that you just don't bid and subsequently buy a bargin.
It just depends on which side of reality you want to live on.
Jon
Jenman agents… dont start – one of the posts above claimed that normal agents were interested in building their databases more than selling houses… I challenge you to call a Jenman agent. Last time I called one, from a landline phone, before I was even able to talk to an agent, the secretary bugged me for my details 'just in case we get cut off'… So I told her I was calling from a landline, she persisted, and eventually I got through… who's interested in building their database did we say?!
And I know the original post was a while ago, but on a $1.2m property, asking for an investment of under $10k is cheap. If you change your mentality, and have some input with your agent that you feel comfortable with, then as a team you're guaranteed to make that $8500 in marketing back in no time – all it takes is one other buyer and you could make 10s of thousands pretty easily on such a property. I know because I've done it recently on one worth less than $1m. Seems like cutting corners may cost you more than $8500 in the end; but hey, it's your house!
My point of view as a potential buyer. …
In this day and age by far the easiest way to compare many properties is by internet.
When I was looking for my last investment property I scrolled through many, and I can say you did notice the agents who appeared to take more time and effort, if only measured by how many photos they took. I think it's very important if you can see many photos of--inside/outside
-features
– backyard ectNot only how many photos, but also they way they're taken lighting ect can help
from here I could compare many properties without even leaving my house.
I noticed any property with Jenman only had 1 mealsy photo of the exterior , hardly doing the property justice. I know anyone working for Jenman would work very hard and sorry if this is an insult, but to me it looks like a lack of effort.
With properties turning over so quick around my area (greenslopes) I simply "clicked next property" , as I did not have the time to leave my house just to inspect 1 property when I could potentially inspect 100's without hoping off my chair.
On the flipside you could apply the same if you were selling, and I would not mind paying the extra to have a agent take the extra bit of effort to take lots of good quality photos – as the old saying goes "1st impressions count"
I know there are many more factors when selling , but this is 1 example of poor marketking, where a potenial buyer was lost just due to the "perception" the agent did not put in the effort.
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