All Topics / Legal & Accounting / Tax Deductions on Interest

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  • Profile photo of KuadeKuade
    Member
    @kuade
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 84

    Hi,

    I’m trying to clarify the situation with tax deductions. My understanding is, for incomes up to 75K you get back 31.5% of the interest of the loan, and for 75K+ you get 43.5% of the interest back.

    How does it work if the IP is in joint names and 1 individual is on the higher bracket, and the other on the lower?

    Can you claim the same % for things like property management fees, insurance, rates etc? Or am I on completely the wrong track?

    Thanks for any assistance.

    Profile photo of Mortgage HunterMortgage Hunter
    Participant
    @mortgage-hunter
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 3,781

    You have wandered down the wrong track just a little.

    It is simpler than what you have described.

    At the end of the FY the IP will have made a profit or a loss (pos or neg geared).

    You simply add that profit or that loss to your taxable income and pay the tax on the end figure.

    Sometimes the loss may drop you to a lower tax bracket or a profit may lift you to a higher one. In both cases you will pay a proportion of tax at both higher and lower rates.

    If you are two people then you each use 50% of the profit/loss. Assuming 50% is the agreed split of the asset.

    Hope this helps.

    Simon Macks
    Residential and Commercial Finance Broker
    [email protected]
    0425 228 985

    Comments may not be relevant to individual circumstances. If you intend making any investment, financial or taxation decision you should consult a professional adviser.

    Profile photo of KuadeKuade
    Member
    @kuade
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 84

    Thanks Simon,

    So if my income is $75,000 for the year and my wife’s is $30,000 and our investment property was negatively geared, earning $15072 and interest on the loan was $25374, and costs on the IP was $3300; how do I calculate what can we claim back? All the income minus all the costs, then work out the tax paid, and subtract tax owed?

    I’ve spoken to an accountant and am obviously a little confussed. I’m in the process of doing some budgeting for a possible first IP.

    Thanks again.

    Chris

    Profile photo of Bo_D_Bo_D_
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    @bo_d_
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 36

    hey kuade,

    you might be better off having the “negatively geared property” in you name. You’ll be on a much higher tax rate. Means you’ll get to claim a bigger percentage on the deductions. (well thats my understanding of it anyway) and if it was a pos geared investment you’d want it in your wifes name as she’ll pay less tax on the money you make.

    As for the tax calc. You’ve made a loss of $13 602 from the IP. So im guessing that’ll be your deduction mate. But it depends what percentage of the IP you own. Dont forget depreciation as well, its a good interest free loan in a way.

    Profile photo of KuadeKuade
    Member
    @kuade
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 84

    Thanks Bo,

    So does that mean I can claim back 30% of 50% of the $13602 for my wife, and 42% of 50% of $13602? Alternatively 42% if it was entirely in my name and therefore get back $5712.84?

    Sorry for all the questions. I just need to be sure that we can actually afford an IP.

    Profile photo of Bo_D_Bo_D_
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    @bo_d_
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 36

    ive decided to try and be abit more helpful [biggrin]

    providing the IP is split 50/50 with your wife.

    your income is 75000- tax to be paid on 06/07 tax rates is $17,850.
    but the IP will bring down ur taxable income to $68 199 ($13602/2)

    plus depreciation needs to be added into the equation mate.
    and it depends on your tax witheld.

    Profile photo of Bo_D_Bo_D_
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    @bo_d_
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    sorry bud, that last reply i sent without knowing u replied.

    no thats not the case because you didn’t effectively pay 42% tax.

    Profile photo of KuadeKuade
    Member
    @kuade
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 84

    I see. So to work out the tax I’d get back, I need to subtract the new tax on $68 199 ($16,943.58 tax) from the original $75000 ($17,850 tax) and I get $906.42 tax back?

    I used the ATO basic calc and it said that Tax on $75000 would be $19800? Therefore $2856.42 return.

    Thanks for all your help.

    Profile photo of celesteceleste
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    @celeste
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 169

    Hi Kuade

    Try this:

    You add up all the expenses (interest / rate /managements fees / insurance etc) that relate to your IP and subtract it from the IP’s income (rent) and then add / subtract the final amount from your other income, that then becomes your taxable amount for income tax purposes. ATO web site has a booklet you can down load with all the things you can and cannot claim and when for a rental property

    Following are some examples of how you purchase the IP can effect your tax

    Assumption for both examples:

    your in come 75k per year, wife 25k per year.
    IP makes 10k loss (negative geared)

    At the end of the year your tax return will be as follows:

    example 1 owned 50/50
    you wife

    wages 75k 25k
    IP loss – 5k – 5k



    you pay tax on 70k 20k
    tax 06/07 16350 2100 = 18450

    Example 2 : all in husbands name

    wages 75k 25k
    IP loss -10k nil



    you pay tax on 65k 25k
    tax 06/07 14850 2850 = 17700

    Example 2 is tax saving of 750 over example 1

    Hope this helps

    Celeste

    This is a basic outline and should not be taken as financial advice check with your accountant BEFORE any action.

    Profile photo of KuadeKuade
    Member
    @kuade
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 84

    Thanks Celeste,

    It’s more clear with both your and Bo’s explanation.

    I guess my next question is, how do you incorporate stamp duty and other purchasing costs into the equation. Is there a tax benefit on them for the first year or no benefit at all?

    Profile photo of Bo_D_Bo_D_
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    @bo_d_
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 36

    well borrowing expenses are deductible over the shorter period of either the loan or five years mate. Stamp duty on the transfer however does not fall into this category, it is not tax deductible. However you can add this cost to the cost base of the property.

    I think [biggrin]

    Profile photo of trajiktrajik
    Member
    @trajik
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 102

    Kuade,

    If your employer allows salary packaging, you can salary package the expenses effectively claiming all cash deductions in your name, and then the remaining profit is split 50/50

    [email protected]
    http://www.guardianaccounting.com

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213
    Originally posted by Bo_D_:

    hey kuade,

    you might be better off having the “negatively geared property” in you name. You’ll be on a much higher tax rate. Means you’ll get to claim a bigger percentage on the deductions. (well thats my understanding of it anyway) and if it was a pos geared investment you’d want it in your wifes name as she’ll pay less tax on the money you make.

    As for the tax calc. You’ve made a loss of $13 602 from the IP. So im guessing that’ll be your deduction mate. But it depends what percentage of the IP you own. Dont forget depreciation as well, its a good interest free loan in a way.

    Bo, that may save a few hundred or maybe even thousand of dollars now, but could cost dearly later on.

    I have a mate (just one[blush2]) that is earning $100K pa, while his wife doesn’t earn a cent. He bought a property in Perth 2 years ago, and put it in his name to save tax. He just sold it and has a $150,000 capital gain. But guess what, this all (after the discount) has to go to him. His poor old wife can get nothing, so he has to pay a fortune in extra tax.

    At the time I advised him to look at using a hybrid trust. He didn’t listen! It could have saved him around $46,000 in tax!

    Terryw
    Discover Home Loans
    Parramatta
    [email protected]
    Sign up to my mailing list.
    Just send me a blank email, with “subscribe” in subject line.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of KuadeKuade
    Member
    @kuade
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 84

    Thanks trajik. That makes sense. The only issue with that is the (200%?) FBT I would get reported at the EOFY. I assume that would then increase the impact on my Medicare levy (haven’t got health insurance for myself only my wife at this stage. Though the plan is to do it June next year.)

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213
    Originally posted by Terryw:

    Originally posted by Bo_D_:

    hey kuade,

    you might be better off having the “negatively geared property” in you name. You’ll be on a much higher tax rate. Means you’ll get to claim a bigger percentage on the deductions. (well thats my understanding of it anyway) and if it was a pos geared investment you’d want it in your wifes name as she’ll pay less tax on the money you make.

    As for the tax calc. You’ve made a loss of $13 602 from the IP. So im guessing that’ll be your deduction mate. But it depends what percentage of the IP you own. Dont forget depreciation as well, its a good interest free loan in a way.

    Bo, that may save a few hundred or maybe even thousand of dollars now, but could cost dearly later on.

    I have a mate (just one[blush2]) that is earning $100K pa, while his wife doesn’t earn a cent. He bought a property in Perth 2 years ago, and put it in his name to save tax. He just sold it and has a $150,000 capital gain. But guess what, this all (after the discount) has to go to him. His poor old wife can get nothing, so he has to pay a fortune in extra tax.

    At the time I advised him to look at using a hybrid trust. He didn’t listen! It could have saved him around $46,000 in tax!

    Terryw
    Discover Home Loans
    Parramatta
    [email protected]
    Sign up to my mailing list.
    Just send me a blank email, with “subscribe” in subject line.

    And I should add, to make it even better, with a hybrid trust, my mate still could have claimed all the interest against his own income.

    Terryw
    Discover Home Loans
    Parramatta
    [email protected]
    Sign up to my mailing list.
    Just send me a blank email, with “subscribe” in subject line.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of trajiktrajik
    Member
    @trajik
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 102

    Kuade,

    There is no FBT, because the salary package is “otherwise deductible”. So no effect on anything except your tax, and it may also help with avoiding the medicare surcharge if you don’t have health insurance.

    [email protected]
    http://www.guardianaccounting.com

    Profile photo of Bo_D_Bo_D_
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    @bo_d_
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 36
    Originally posted by Terryw:

    Bo, that may save a few hundred or maybe even thousand of dollars now, but could cost dearly later on.

    i should have thought of that lol. Thanks Terry [thumbsupanim]

    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
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    @l.a-aussie
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 1,488
    Originally posted by Kuade:

    Thanks Bo,

    So does that mean I can claim back 30% of 50% of the $13602 for my wife, and 42% of 50% of $13602? Alternatively 42% if it was entirely in my name and therefore get back $5712.84?

    Sorry for all the questions. I just need to be sure that we can actually afford an IP.

    Here’s a very simple guide to calculate if you can afford the property or not. I call it my one minute cashflow formula. It will give you a ball park figure on how negative (or maybe positive) your cashflow will be, before the tax returns are considered. If you are factoring in the tax return as part of your overall return then you are probably trying to buy the wrong property. The tax return is the icing on the cake as far as I’m concerned. Assume the property will be cashflow negative, but this formula will give you the degree of negative and you can decide if you can carry that drain on your funds each week/month.
    Calculate per annum-
    1. purchase price + 5-6% for purchase costs = total purchase price.
    2. total interest on loan + 1/2% more for ‘surprises’. If you are using a p&i loan this figure will be higher. I work on interest only. % of finance for purchase will affect the figure also.
    3. total amount of rent.
    4. deduct 20% of rent for all outgoings such as repairs, management, rates insurance, vacancy. etc.
    5. deduct total interest on loan from rent.
    You are left with a net cashflow figure. For example:
    $100k property purchase price.
    + 6% costs = $106k (will work in most areas of Aus).
    interest on 100% finance of $106k = 6.5 % (+ .5%) = 7%.
    total interest on loan = $7,420 p.a
    total rent @ $120 p/w = $6,240 p.a
    less 20% for outgoings = $1248 p.a
    less interest on loan.
    figure is:
    rent: $6,240
    – interest 7,420
    – outgoings 1,248
    nett cashflow = -$2,428 p.a ($46 per week)
    These figures over-estimate the expenses, and don’t take into account depreciation.
    Are you willing to shoulder a negative of $46 per week before tax return? This assumes 100% finance on purchase.
    If you pay a 20% cash deposit, the nett figure is -$1028 p.a ($19 per week).
    Even a conservative ball-park estimate of tax return of $1,040 ($20 per week) would assume this property is now cashflow positive with a 20% cash deposit. My guess is the tax return would be considerably higher.

    Cheers,
    Marc.
    [email protected]

    Profile photo of dare_to_dreamdare_to_dream
    Member
    @dare_to_dream
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 88

    Hi Marc,

    Just a quick question:

    When you allow 20% of rent for outgoings does this include everything – i.e. property management, land rates, electricity, water etc. that have to be paid.

    Also, in a residential IP does the tenant pay electricity and/or water rates?

    Cheers
    Paul[suave2]

    Profile photo of elkamelkam
    Member
    @elkam
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 722

    Hello Paul

    On browsing through some of the back threads/posts I found yours unanswered. Even though I am not Marc I will give it a shot. [smiling]

    Yes the 20% Marc uses will include all expenses except the interest on the loan.

    In a residential IP the tenant pays electricity and water usage.
    The other charges on your water bill are charged to the owner.

    The exception to this is if you have 2 different tenants on your property (e.g house with Granny accommodation rented seperately) and there is only one water meter. In this case the owner has the pleasure of paying the usage bill as well.

    Hope this helps
    Elka

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