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  • Profile photo of redwingredwing
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    Interesting Post..
    Legendary Funds Manager Predicts Utter Global Collapse Stemming From
    Bursting of property bubble.



    In a recent interview on CNBC with Ron Insana, one of the “old-timer”
    funds manager, Julian Robertson, predicted “utter global collapse” as
    a consequence of the bursting of the world-wide property bubble.

    Often called “Never Been Wrong Robertson”, the former head of Tiger
    Management (once the largest hedge fund in the world), is extremely
    worried about the speculative bubble in real estate.

    Specifically, he is very worried about a world that is sustained by
    American consumer spending which is in turn 1/4 sustained by a
    property bubble. He predicts that 20 million people could lose their
    homes once the property bubble bursts.

    Even more worrisome, he thinks central banks around the globe out of
    desperation will try to re-inflate the world economy with more
    liquidity that will create an inflationary spiral unseen in the
    economic history of mankind.

    “Where does it end?”, Insana asked Robertson. “Utter global
    collapse,” he answered. But not just economic collapse … collapse
    of epic proportions. Collapse and disintegration of all
    infrastructure, including government. Inflation will run into the
    double and triple digits. “Food production will fall. People will be
    carrying around U.S. dollars in wheelbarrows like Germany,” he said.

    There will be “total collapse of public infrastructure. Total
    collapse of medical care systems. All public pension plans, Social
    Security will collapse. All corporate pension plans will collapse.”

    “The American consumer is effectively now supporting the rest of the
    planet,” he continued. “Consumption rates in all other nations are
    falling, have fallen to the point that the tax revenues to
    governments, that the business and industries those nation states are
    providing is now a net negative number relative to total debt service
    and public cost, that this exists in virtually every nation state on
    the planet now.”

    And for much of this “doom”, interestingly, he blames the Bush-
    Cheney “regime”.

    “They have now consolidated power and money on the planet to the
    maximum extent possible. The planet’s net liquidity, that is its, net
    free cash flow. Is now a negative number. The planet is not simply
    sinking into a sea of red ink; it is already sunk. The people just
    don’t realize it yet,” he said.

    According to Robertson, “the Bush-Cheney regime is preparing the
    nation for transition from democracy into dictatorship because a
    dictatorship will be necessary to control, in 5 years time, food and
    water riots.” He said “the federal government, that part of Patriot
    II Act, the internal exile, that the government is going to have to
    build now huge detention compounds on federal lands, probably in the
    West where the land is available, to potentially house 50 million or
    more citizens that will be in financial ruin.”

    In 10 years time, whoever is left will be effectively starting again,
    he said.

    “More importantly, and I’m trying to think how we imply this or how
    we express this to the people, what extraordinary times we are living
    in and how the destruction of the planet has been engineered by the
    Bushonian Cabal from 1980 to 1992, and then from 2001 to present,
    which has effectively destroyed the economic liquidity of the
    planet,” he said.

    Robertson ended the interview by saying that he hopes he is not alive
    to see this.

    “The lucky ones are the ones who are my age now,” he said.

    “Money is a currency, like electricity and it requires momentum to make it Effective”
    Count The Currency With This Online Positive Cashflow Calculator

    Profile photo of Fast LaneFast Lane
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    That is a great post, I love these types of articles. And also the more negative the better! (seriously). I’m a believer, apparently everybody goes through 2 recessions and a depression in their lives and the baby boomers are yet to have their depression.

    Great article, keep them coming…

    Profile photo of wayneLwayneL
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    It’s a view that’s gaining momentum around the world.

    I have always thought it a strong possibility and have organised my affairs for that contingency.

    Cheers

    wayneL’s Trading Pages

    Profile photo of TechnoTechno
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    Wow …. and I thought Nostradamus was overly pessimistic.

    Bubbles come and bubbles go. Those of us who have lived through them would know they can be harmless if one lives in moderation.

    Example, the tech boom and later tech bust, had no effect on me as I merely ignored it.

    Previous corrections in property cycles and share market bubbles did not bother me much. They merely brought plenty of buying opportunities at bargain prices.

    It is probably the investors with high debt that might be concerned. The more astute investors have nothing to worry about, as is usually the case.

    Profile photo of oshenoshen
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    Oh what??? Is the sky falling in again? [glum2]

    Profile photo of markpatrickmarkpatrick
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    Right on catwoman![inlove], it is simply yet another ATTEMPT….. to spread CHAOS…. through the minds of those good people…….. who try to live…. a PEACEFUL life……. without interferring in the rights of others![laughing]

    But seriously, this is just another in a long line of lame predictions of doom from those who have nothing better to do with thier time, I wonder what the writer was hoping to achieve by these predictions?, speaks for itself.[oneeyed][jerry]

    Profile photo of woodsmanwoodsman
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    Robertson ended the interview by saying that he hopes he is not alive to see this.

    Well then…..RIP Julian

    Woodsman

    Profile photo of munjymunjy
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    Originally posted by redwing:

    Even more worrisome, he thinks central banks around the globe out of
    desperation will try to re-inflate the world economy with more
    liquidity that will create an inflationary spiral unseen in the
    economic history of mankind.

    Personally I think that further correction/downturn in the property market is possible, however, the central banks increasing liquidity would have to be a fairly way out idea. This is really the crux of his argument for global collapse, and if this does not happen, the wheeling around wheelbarrows of money won’t happen either.

    Surely these central banks wouldn’t ever be so stupid as to try something like that.

    For those who believe that such a collapse will be as severe as predicted, in what way will you be insulating yourself? Buying gold? Buying a farm?

    Munjy

    Profile photo of markpatrickmarkpatrick
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    Rather than scrambling for as many properties possible, I believe, anyway, that it`s good to aim to have high equity in your properties, cash in the bank and a very big vege patch!.[buz2]

    Profile photo of Andrew_AAndrew_A
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    What garbage.

    I almost stopped reading after the ‘never been wrong’ part of the article. Never been wrong must mean you have done nothing in your life, or you are perfect, and we all know how many perfect people or predictors there are out there.

    It always pays to look at a persons motivation when they have a point of view, especially with money and investing.

    There are a lot of people who hate George Bush and aren’t afraid of saying how the world will soon end because of him and his administration.

    George Soros and Buffett have each dropped serious money (even for them) shorting the USD this year, and why? Well… it wasn’t trading reasons, but political.

    Always take what you read on the net with two grains of salt. Take any position and do some googling to find hundreds of articles and websites to support any quirky point of of view and get a warm and fuzzy feeling that plenty of people agree with you.

    “Write the wrongs that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on marble.” Arab proverb

    Profile photo of foundationfoundation
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    Originally posted by munjy:
    For those who believe that such a collapse will be as severe as predicted, in what way will you be insulating yourself? Buying gold? Buying a farm?

    Gold of course, but also property. Many, many houses, as highly geared as possible. Triple digit inflation would (at least) halve your debt in a year… Yield would not be so important – you could accept food stamps as payment.

    But more seriously, I think this article is fairly over the top. I have no doubt there is pain to come in the form of major global economic readjustments as the US cannot indefinitely accumulate debt – they already have more than they can afford to repay or even maintain. This has been supported largely by Asian nations buying back that debt in exchange for continued favourable export conditions, but a change is in the air. China’s revaluation / partial float of its RMB may be the tipping point where values of all major currencies adjust to more balanced levels, most notably a fall in the $US. Australia’s current account deficit combined with low interest rates* would likely see our dollar plummet also.
    High levels of inflation in goods and services would follow. Wages would not. With our major exports already at or near capacity, the main (only?) mechanism available for Australia to prevent an inflationary spile is interest rates. Given the US federal reserve bank’s recent reiteration of their intention to maintain ‘measured’ increases in their base rate, we would likely be forced to match or better their rate.
    So, in my opinion, are we headed for a major worldwide depression? Doubtful but possible. Higher interest rates? Almost certainly. Home loan defaults and repossessions? Most likely. A dramatic reduction in the standard of living in all first world consumer-culture-economy countries over the next few decades? Guaranteed. In only my personal opinion of course.

    Regards, F.[cowboy2]

    PS – Even if there’s only a 1% chance of this article being 5% correct, a couple of ounces of gold stashed safely under the mattress/ buried under one of the standard iceberg roses is a reassuring insurance policy. 50oz is even better. Oh, and it’s pretty… oh so pretty…. shiny, mmmm…
    [blink][guilty][suave2]

    Profile photo of Nigel KibelNigel Kibel
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    It sounds as though the writer may have had a nervous backdown however the real issues over the next 15 years will be the ageing population and the lack of young people entering the workforce. According to government figures we will have double the number of people over the age of 65 by 2020 and only 5% of people entering the workforce. If the trend does not change then you have to ask what will keep up demand. One awnser is that we should increase immigartion to Australia. In the current world climate where will they come from. It is unlikly that they will come from Europe ae they have a similar problem there. No doubt we will work it out, we normally do. I would like to see the government offering far more incentive for people to save than they are at present.I think the economy locally for the next few years will remain strong. The wealthier baby boomers will also continue to push the market up especially in waterfront areas. This is just my views of course

    Nigel Kibel

    http://www.propertyknowhow.com.au

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    service and seminars

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    Profile photo of foundationfoundation
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    Originally posted by munjy:
    the central banks increasing liquidity would have to be a fairly way out idea.

    With our gross domestic product growing at what, an average of around 4% pa and our broad money measures increasing by 10-14% pa over the last 6 or so years* do you not perhaps think this may already have been occurring? Is this not the likely cause of rampant house price inflation & malinvestment?
    Cheers, F.[cowboy2]

    *Graph

    Profile photo of TechnoTechno
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    Originally posted by foundation:

    Originally posted by munjy:
    the central banks increasing liquidity would have to be a fairly way out idea.

    With our gross domestic product growing at what, an average of around 4% pa and our broad money measures increasing by 10-14% pa over the last 6 or so years* do you not perhaps think this may already have been occurring? Is this not the likely cause of rampant house price inflation & malinvestment?
    Cheers, F.[cowboy2]

    *Graph

    Yes. It has already been happening. There is a new book that has been released that explains the occurrence.

    In financial markets (I have worked in financial markets before), it was called the “carry trade”.

    Alan Greenspan wanted to avoid deflation because he saw what deflation did to the Japanese economy (stagnation over a decade after the last bubble had burst). He kept rates very low for a few years and used the ‘printing press’ to the tune of US$7 trillion (I do not know the accuracy of this figure but from memory this was the figure used in that book).

    The banking industry in Australia borrowed heavily overseas (Australian banks have the highest proportion of foreign debt to assets in the whole world) and used the money to lend to almost whoever wanted to borrow.

    This provided the “fuel” for one of the biggest price rises in Australia’s housing sector in history. Australia went from having one of the cheapest housing cost (measured as average house price divided by average household income) to one of the highest, in the world in a matter of two decades.

    Alan Greenspan’s ability to keep rates so low in America for so long, was only made possible with the help of Asian Central Banks (mainly Japan and China) because these central banks bought the USD bonds and T-bills, to fund America’s printing press. I will post more about this at a later time (over the next few days).

    Profile photo of TechnoTechno
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    How Japan financed global reflation
    FinanceAsia February 2005

    In 2003 and the first quarter of 2004, Japan carried out a remarkable experiment in monetary policy – remarkable in the impact it had on the global economy and equally remarkable in that it went almost entirely unnoticed in the financial press. Over those 15 months, monetary authorities in Japan created Â¥35 trillion. To put that into perspective, Â¥35 trillion is approximately 1% of the world’s annual economic output. It is roughly the size of Japan’s annual tax revenue base or nearly as large as the loan book of UFJ, one of Japan’s four largest banks. Â¥35 trillion amounts to the equivalent of $2,500 for every person in Japan and, in fact, would amount to $50 per person if distributed equally among the entire population of the planet. In short, it was money creation on a scale never before attempted during peacetime.

    Why did this occur? There is no shortage of yen in Japan. The yield on two year JGBs is 10 basis points. Overnight money is free. Japanese banks have far more deposits than there is demand for loans, which forces them to invest up to a quarter of their deposits in low yielding government bonds. So, what motivated the Bank of Japan to print so much more money when the country is already flooded with excess liquidity?

    The Bank of Japan gave the ¥35 trillion to the Japanese Ministry of Finance in exchange for MOF debt with virtually no yield; and the MOF used the money to buy approximately $320 billion from the private sector. The MOF then invested those dollars into US dollar- denominated debt instruments such as government bonds and agency debt in order to earn a return.

    The MOF bought more dollars through currency intervention then than during the preceding 10 years combined, and yet the yen rose by 11% over that period. Historically, foreign exchange intervention to control the level of a currency has met with mixed success, at best; and past attempts by the MOF to stop the appreciation of the yen have not always succeeded. They were very considerably less expensive, however. It is also interesting, and perhaps important, to note that the MOF stopped intervening in March 2004 just when the yen was peaking; that the yen depreciated immediately after the intervention stopped; and that when the yen began appreciating again in October 2004, the MOF refrained from further intervention.

    So, what happened in 2003 that prompted the Japanese monetary authorities to create so much paper money and hurl it into the foreign exchange markets? Two scenarios will be explored over the following paragraphs.

    In 2002, the United States faced the threat of deflation for the first time since the Great Depression. Growing trade imbalances and a surge in the global money supply had contributed to the credit excesses of the late 1990s and resulted in the New Paradigm technology bubble. That bubble popped in 2000 and was followed by a serious global economic slowdown in 2001. Policy makers in the United States grew increasingly alarmed that deflation, which had taken hold in Japan, China and Taiwan, would soon spread to America.

    Deflation is a central bank’s worst nightmare. When prices begin to fall, interest rates follow them down. Once interest rates fall to zero, as is the case in Japan at present, central banks become powerless to provide any further stimulus to the economy through conventional means and monetary policy becomes powerless. The extent of the US Federal Reserve’s concern over the threat of deflation is demonstrated in Fed staff research papers and the speeches delivered by Fed governors at that time. For example, in June 2002, the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System published a Discussion Paper entitled, “Preventing Deflation: Lessons from Japan’s Experience in the 1990s.” The abstract of that paper concluded “…we draw the general lesson from Japan’s experience that when inflation and interest rates have fallen close to zero, and the risk of deflation is high, stimulus-both monetary and fiscal- should go beyond the levels conventionally implied by baseline forecasts of future inflation and economic activity.”

    From the perspective of mid-2002, the question confronting those in charge of preventing deflation must have been how far beyond the conventional levels implied by the base case could the economic policy response go? The government budget had already swung back into a large deficit and the Federal Funds rate was at a 41 year low. How much additional stimulus could be provided? A further increase in the budget deficit seemed likely to push up market determined interest rates, causing mortgage rates to rise and property prices to fall, which would have reduced aggregate demand that much more. And, with the Federal Funds rate at 1.75% in mid- 2002, there was limited scope left to lower it further. Moreover, given the already very low level of interest rates, there was reason to doubt that a further rate reduction would make any difference anyway.

    In a speech entitled, “Deflation: Making Sure ‘It’ Doesn’t Happen Here”, delivered on November 21, 2002, Federal Reserve Governor Ben Bernanke explained to the world exactly how far beyond conventional levels the policy response could go. Governor Bernanke explained that the Fed would not be “out of ammunition” just because the Federal Funds rate fell to 0% because the Fed could create money and buy bonds of longer maturity in order to drive down yields at the long end of the yield curve as well. Moreover, he said, “In practice, the effectiveness of anti-deflation policy could be significantly enhanced by cooperation between the monetary and fiscal authorities. A broad-based tax cut, for example, accommodated by a program of open-market purchases to alleviate any tendency for interest rates to increase, would almost certainly be an effective stimulant to consumption and hence to prices.”

    He made similar remarks in Japan in May 2003 in a speech entitled, “Some Thoughts on Monetary Policy in Japan”. He said, “My thesis here is that cooperation between the monetary and fiscal authorities in Japan could help solve the problems that each policymaker faces on its own. Consider for example a tax cut for households and businesses that is explicitly coupled with incremental BOJ purchases of government debt-so that the tax cut is in effect financed by money creation.” These speeches attracted tremendous attention and for some time financial markets believed the Fed intended to implement the “unorthodox” or “unconventional” monetary policy options Governor Bernanke had outlined.

    In the end, the Fed did not resort to unorthodox measures. The Fed did not create money to finance a broad-based tax cut in the United States. The Bank of Japan did, however. Three large tax cuts took the US budget from a surplus of $127 billion in 2001 to a deficit of $413 billion in 2004. In the 15 months ended March 2004, the BOJ created ¥35 trillion which the MOF used to buy $320 billion, an amount large enough to fund 77% of the US budget deficit in the fiscal year ending September 30, 2004. It is not certain how much of the $320 billion the MOF did invest into US Treasury bonds, but judging by their past behavior it is fair to assume that it was the vast majority of that amount.

    Was the BOJ/MOF conducting Governor Bernanke’s Unorthodox Monetary Policy on behalf of the Fed? There is no question that the BOJ created money on a very large scale as the Fed would have been required to do under Bernanke’s scheme. Nor can there be any question that the money created was used to buy an increasing supply of US Treasury bonds being issued to finance the kind of broad-based tax cuts Governor Bernanke had discussed. Moreover, was it merely a coincidence that the really large scale BOJ/MOF intervention began during May 2003, while Governor Bernanke was visiting Japan? Was the BOJ simply serving as a branch of the Fed, as The Federal Reserve Bank of Tokyo, if you will? This is Scenario One.

    If this was globally coordinated monetary policy (unorthodox or otherwise) it worked beautifully. The Bush tax cuts and the BOJ money creation that helped finance them at very low interest rates were the two most important elements driving the strong global economic expansion during 2003 and 2004. Combined, they produced a very powerful global reflation. The process seems to have worked in the following way:

    US tax cuts and low interest rates fuelled consumption in the United States. In turn, growing US consumption shifted Asia’s export-oriented economies into overdrive. China played a very important part in that process. With a trade surplus vis-à-vis the United States of $124 billion, equivalent to 9% of its GDP in 2003 (rising to approximately $160 billion or above 12% of GDP in 2004), China became a regional engine of economic growth in its own right. China used its large trade surpluses with the US to pay for its large trade deficits with most of its Asian neighbors, including Japan. The recycling of China’s US Dollar export earnings explains the incredibly rapid “reflation” that began across Asia in 2003 and that was still underway at the end of 2004. Even Japan’s moribund economy began to reflate.

    Whatever its motivation, Japan was well rewarded for creating money and buying US Treasury bonds with it. Whereas the BOJ had failed to reflate the Japanese economy directly by expanding the domestic money supply, it appears to have succeeded in reflating it indirectly by expanding the global money supply through financing the sharp increase in the MOF’s holdings of US Dollar foreign exchange reserves. There is no question as to if this happened. It did. The only question is was it planned (globally coordinated monetary policy) or did it simply occur by coincidence, driven by other considerations?

    What other considerations could have prompted the BOJ to create Â¥35 trillion over 15 months? A second scenario is that a “run on the dollar” forced the monetary authorities in Japan to intervene on that scale to prevent a balance of payments crisis in the United States. This is Scenario Two.

    During the Strong Dollar Trend of the late 1990s, foreign investors, both private and public, invested heavily in the United States. Those investments put upward pressure on the dollar and on US asset prices, including stocks and bonds. The trend became self-reinforcing. The more capital that entered the US, the more the dollar and dollar denominated assets rose in value. The more those assets appreciated, the more foreign investors wanted to own them. Because of the large sums entering the country, the United States had no difficulty in financing its giant current account deficit, even though that deficit nearly tripled between 1997 and 2001.

    By 2002, however, with the US current account deficit approaching 5% of US GDP, it became increasingly apparent that the Strong Dollar Trend was unsustainable. The magnitude of the current account deficit made a downward adjustment in the value of the dollar unavoidable. At that point, the Strong Dollar Trend gave way and the Weak Dollar Trend began. Foreign investors who had invested in US dollar denominated assets during the late 1990s naturally wanted to take their money back out of the United States once it became clear that a sharp correction of the dollar was underway. Moreover, many US investors, and hedge funds in particular, also began selling dollar- denominated assets and buying non-US dollar-denominated assets to profit from the dollar’s decline.

    The change in the direction of capital flows can be seen very clearly in the breakdown of Japan’s balance of payments.

    The preceding chart shows the balance on Japan’s current account and financial account, the two principle components of Japan’s balance of payments, going back to 1985. Traditionally, Japan runs a large current account surplus and a slightly less large financial account deficit, with the difference between the two resulting in changes (usually additions) to the country’s foreign exchange reserves.

    Beginning in 2003, however, there was a startling change in the direction of the financial account. Instead of large financial outflows from Japan to the rest of the world, there were very large financial inflows. For instance, in May 2003, Japan’s financial account reflected a net inflow of $23 billion into the country. The net inflow in September was $21 billion. These amounts increased considerably during the first quarter of 2004, averaging $37 billion a month.

    The capital inflows into Japan at that time were massive, even relative to Japan’s traditionally large annual current account surpluses. But, why did Japan, which normally exported capital, suddenly experience net capital inflows on a very large scale in the first place? The most likely explanation is that very large amounts of private sector money began fleeing the dollar and seeking refuge in the relative safety of the yen.

    When the Strong Dollar Trend broke, had the BOJ/MOF not bought the dollars that the private sector sold in such large quantities, the United States would have faced a balance of payments crisis, in which, in addition to having to fund a half a trillion dollar a year trade deficit, it would have had to find a way to fund a deficit of several hundred billion on its financial account as well.

    Any other country facing a large shortfall on its balance of payments would have experienced a reduction in its foreign exchange reserves. The United States, however, maintains only a limited amount of such reserves; only $75 billion as at the end of 2003, far too little to fund the private capital outflows occurring at that time.

    Once those reserves had been depleted, market-determined interest rates in the US would have begun to rise, in all probability, popping the US property bubble and throwing the country into recession. Under that scenario, a reduction in consumption in the United States would have undermined global aggregate demand and created a severe world-wide economic slump.

    The US current account deficit more or less finances itself since the central banks of the surplus countries buy the dollars entering their countries to prevent their currencies from appreciating and then recycle those dollars back into US dollar-denominated assets in order to earn interest on them.

    Large scale private sector capital flight out of dollars presented the recipients of that capital with the same choice. The central bank of each country receiving the capital inflow had the choice of either printing their domestic currency and buying the incoming capital or else allowing their currency to appreciate as the private sector swapped out of dollars. The European Central Bank chose to allow the euro to appreciate. The Bank of Japan and the People’s Bank of China chose to print yen and renminbe and accumulate the incoming dollars to prevent their currencies from rising. If some central bank had not stepped in and financed the private sector capital flight out of the dollar, then sharply higher US interest rates most likely would have thrown the world into a severe recession. It is quite likely that this consideration also played a role in influencing the actions of the Japanese monetary authorities during this episode.

    The BOJ/MOF stopped intervening in March 2004. By that time, the Fed had indicated that it planned to begin tightening interest rates. That put a stop to the private sector capital flight out of the dollar. Therefore no more intervention was required. At the same time, by the end of the first quarter of 2004, it was becoming clear that strong economic growth in the US was creating higher than anticipated tax revenues. That meant a smaller than expected budget deficit. In July, the President’s Office of Management and Budget revised down its estimate of the budget deficit from $521 billion to $445 billion. The actual deficit turned out to be $413 billion. Thus less funding was required than initially anticipated.

    So, what did motivate the monetary authorities in Japan to create the equivalent of 1% of global GDP and lend it to the United States? Was it simply, straightforward self interest to prevent a very sharp surge in the value of the yen? Was it globally coordinated monetary policy designed to pull the world out of the 2001 slump and prevent deflation in the United States? Or, was it necessary to stave off a US balance of payments crisis that would have produced a global economic crisis?

    Perhaps it was only straightforward foreign exchange intervention to prevent a crippling rise in the value of the yen. Intentionally or otherwise, however, by creating and lending the equivalent of $320 billion to the United States, the Bank of Japan and the Japanese Ministry of Finance counteracted a private sector run on the dollar and, at the same time, financed the US tax cuts that reflated the global economy, all this while holding US long bond yields down near historically low levels.

    In 2004, the global economy grew at the fastest rate in 30 years. Money creation by the Bank of Japan on an unprecedented scale was perhaps the most important factor responsible for that growth. In fact, ¥35 trillion could have made the difference between global reflation and global deflation. How odd that it went unnoticed.

    Profile photo of kerwynkerwyn
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    AHHHH, I wonder when all this gloom and doom will eventuate? 20 million people losing their homes, where are they going to sleep?
    Gee the US government better start making a lot of park benches. There you go, a safe industry to ride out the total disintegration of the world economy: better start sharpening my saw.

    Kerwyn.

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