All Topics / Opinionated! / Are you a baby boomer???

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  • Profile photo of MonopolyMonopoly
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    My turn, my turn…..seems like it is quite “fashionable” to be the voice of ‘doom and gloom’ so heck, why not join the crowd I say!!! [grin] So here’s my little contribution; and one which is particularly close to my heart, as I too am a BB (only just!!) [tongue]

    FOLLOW THE MONEY
    Publication: Australian Financial Review
    Author: David Bassanese
    Date: 13/11/2004

    History suggests markets could take a tumble when retiring baby boomers start selling off their nest eggs.

    The sharemarket is surging and it seems a great time to invest, but there’s a demographic time bomb ticking that is set to ignite in six years. In 2010 the oldest baby boomer will retire, to be followed by a swathe of retirees over the following few decades.

    With that shift, history’s greatest bulge in financial asset buyers, who have underpinned a solid bull market since the early 1980s, will not only stop buying but will start selling. International studies suggest that could
    weigh on asset price returns for the generations following in their wake, making it harder to save for retirement.

    And research by The Australian Financial Review finds that the international linkages between demography and sharemarkets hold quite strongly in Australia.

    Since 1983, the proportion of Australians in the prime saving years of their life those aged 40 to 65 years has increased from 33 per cent to 46 per cent. A similar trend has been apparent in the United States.

    As baby boomers have aged and become big savers, they have underpinned a strong demand for financial assets, not just in Australia but across most of the developed world.

    As the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development noted in its March Financial Market Trends report, “During the 1990s, financial markets in general and equity markets in particular may have benefited from large inflows into pension funds and other institutionalised forms of saving. These inflows reflected to a considerable extent saving for retirement by baby-boom generations. These baby-boom generations are expected to start to move into retirement after 2010.”

    According to demographic projections by the Australian Bureau of Statistics, the share of 40- to 64-year-olds relative to the rest of the population will peak at about 50 per cent over the next decade, after which it will start falling, reaching 45 per cent by 2051.

    If history and international studies are any guide, any downward movement promises to have a dampening effect on local house prices and sharemarkets.

    In a study in its September World Economic Outlook, “How Will Population Aging Affect Financial Markets?” the International Monetary Fund noted that “during the postwar period, real stock prices in the United States have indeed been positively associated with the relative importance of the population in prime saving years.”

    The ratio of 40- to 64-year-olds relative to the rest of the US population increased through much of the first half of the last century, which the IMF argues happened to be associated with the postwar stockmarket boom of the 1950s and ’60s.

    Due to the postwar baby boom, the prime savers’ population share started falling from the late 1940s until the mid-1980s and was associated with more troublesome equity markets in the 1970s and early 1980s.

    But as baby boomers moved into the prime saving group from the mid-1980s, the US stockmarket enjoyed an impressive bull run.

    The United States was not alone. The IMF cites a study of 14 developed economies that reveals similar linkages over time.

    As the world’s biggest economy, America’s stockmarket helps drive stockmarkets around the world. But official US projections have the population aged 40 to 64 years falling from about 50 per cent of the population today to less than 40 per cent by 2050.

    The Australian Financial Review has recreated the IMF long-term analysis using Australian data on share prices and demography. The results are even more sobering. It shows an even closer relationship between long-run sharemarket performance and population ageing in Australia than in the United States.

    For example, between 1901 and 1945, the ratio of 40- to 64-year-olds relative to the rest of the population increased from 22 per cent to almost 40 per cent and was associated with a broad uptrend in real stock prices until the late 1930s (even allowing for the Great Depression).

    But with the increase in the birth rate after World War II, the proportion of prime savers eased over the next few decades, bottoming at about 33 per cent in the early 1980s.

    The period between World War II and the early 1970s has been dubbed the “golden years” of economic growth, and the sharemarket did enjoy its fair share of cyclical booms over this period. But across the broader sweep of time, real share prices still ended up slightly lower in the early 1980s than they were in the late 1930s.

    Then came the great bull market of the last two decades. Australia’s real share prices have tripled over this period. Over this time the prime saver share of the population relative to the rest increased from one-third to almost one-half.

    The good news is that demographic projections suggest the prime saver ratio in Australia and in key countries such as the US will keep increasing over the next six years or so. That should provide good demographic support to the market for those saving furiously for their looming retirement. But for others further down the age scale, they’ll be buying assets while the swelling ranks of retirees are selling.

    Before young investors despair at the thought of building up a decent saving nest egg, however, the IMF holds out some hope.

    For starters, it could all just be a coincidence. The IMF study noted that factors other than demographics could explain stockmarket cycles over recent decades: a post-World War II economic boom and the subsequent depressing effect of oil price shocks during the 1970s. One could also argue that the return to low inflation and the IT revolution helped kick-start the equity boom from the mid-1980s.

    What’s more, the apparently robust international links between stocks and demographics may merely reflect common global shocks, such as the Great Depression and World War II, which affected population and economic performance in many countries at the same time.

    And the OECD study in March suggested retirees may not be big sellers of financial assets due to “bequest motives and lifetime uncertainty”. But whether a hard-pressed social security system leaves them the right to retain accumulated assets remains to be seen.

    While many will hang onto their investment for a time, slowly but surely some of their nest eggs will find its way back onto the market. And even if the selling is not large, markets will miss the buying spree from history’s greatest group of financial asset buyers.

    As the IMF could not help but conclude, “The empirical and theoretical strands of the literature suggest that stock prices could move against the baby boomers as they retire.”

    But it’s not just a problem for baby boomers; it also affects those who follow.

    Profile photo of FWFW
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    Sounds very similar to some of the ideas Robert Kiyosaki brought up in his book, I think it was called “Prophecy”.

    Keep smiling
    Felicity 8-)

    Profile photo of kay henrykay henry
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    hey Jo :+P

    I think BB’s got lucky because of the RE boom- because certainly, many are unable to rely on super- it came in universally not terribly long ago, and a lot of older people (including many X-gens) won’t be able to reply on super to survive (and certainly not on a pension!)- hence CG and a renewed interest in RE has served many bb’s well.

    That articles is pretty well researched, so it isn’t all just doom and gloom for its own sake, I think- I would see it more as a reality check. Govt’s have to start working out how to fund an ageing generation- particularly in the area of health. Self-funding of retirement (via employers paying super) and self-funding of health (private health schemes) means the govt will be taking less responsibility, but casualisation of employment, contracting, outsourcing etc, mean that it’s still gonna be a struggle for x-gens too.

    A lot of BB’s speculated on exxy RE- late into the boom- relying on notions of ongoing CG, and might be in a lot of trpouble- i guess that will be revealed more as all the OTP’s become finalised. I also think a lot of people are gonna be in trouble with 110% loans, and lines of credit.

    I reckon soon, things will go back to basics- pay down debt (this is already happening with consumer credit/bad debt/bankcards)… and building equity, rather than IO loans.

    Time will tell :)

    kay henry

    Profile photo of foundationfoundation
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    Hi Jo,
    Nope, I’m a baby boomer’s baby!
    Thanks for the post. It seems to have some fairly sound reasoning, but it’s going to take a bit of thinking to get the most out of it, particularly in regards to investments. The impact of large withdrawals of support from shares & property is pretty clear, but all that money will flow back into circulation…[eh] who will benefit most? Hmmm, so much to consider!
    Thanks again,
    F.[cap]

    Profile photo of MonopolyMonopoly
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    Hey all,

    Yes I agree there is much to ponder, and as the article states, the situation (and yes I do agree Kay, it’s not in fact all “doom and gloom” per se) will be an interesting one for baby boomers and the generations that follow. [blush2]

    On the flip side though, I could be mean here and say oh (beep) the next lot let them fend for themselves, come on BB’s let’s party; spend, spend, spend till there ain’t no more!!! [tongue]

    Cheers,

    Jo

    Profile photo of foundationfoundation
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    …which really wouldn’t be the selfish thing to do! Providing you don’t migrate to another country and didn’t solely buy imports, every dollar you spend will help provide jobs for the younger generations, who can then use that same money to go out and buy houses and shares for a discounted price due to the oversupply caused by you and the other BBs cashing up for retirement…
    It’s all swings and roundabouts in a free market.
    Cheers, F.[cap]

    Profile photo of woodsmanwoodsman
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    Actually working backwards, baby boomer investment fuelled investment surge caused by realisation that pensions will be insufficient to sustain lifestyles in retirement. Governments paying less in real terms for pensions because of ageing population, which is caused by fall in fertility rate….So the ultimate blame to rest on people not having enough babies…Maybe Peter Costello was right!

    Reminds me of the mantra from the Curtin Government, populate or perish….Of course we could increase immigration, but it would help if we didn’t lock them all up in camps!!!!!!!!![wink2]

    Profile photo of foundationfoundation
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    Ok ‘Wood’sman,
    We’ve got to balance the 4 million odd babies born between 1946 + 1961 (I think) – First one to 2 million wins!
    Ready… Steady…[blink]

    F.[cap]

    Profile photo of MonopolyMonopoly
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    @monopoly
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    Originally posted by foundation:
    We’ve got to balance the 4 million odd babies born between 1946 + 1961 (I think)

    Oh you are SO close Foundation!!! As a borderline BB myself I can tell you that the cut off is in fact 1964 (the way I remember it is to simply reverse the 46).[biggrin] A few will argue that the cut off is 1961 (probably those who don’t wish to be known as one; and if it were I certainly would escape being classed as one) but alas most references document the BB era as 1946-64.[blush2]

    Cheers,

    Jo

    Profile photo of wezwazwezwaz
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    Why are retirements going to drain the share market? Even in retirement you want your money invested in something other than cash. People don’t just go and cash their Super and park it at the bank.

    Explain why there will be a wave of selling.

    Wes.

    Profile photo of woodsmanwoodsman
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    Even in retirement you want your money invested in something other than cash. People don’t just go and cash their Super and park it at the bank.

    I agree in principle that there will be no wave/tsunami of selling by baby boomers. Monies will be invested, I suspect the argument might arise as to where it might be placed or switched to/from.

    Consider the argument for I/O loans, which reduces payments, whilst still be able to secure the asset, allowing additional cashflow for additional IP’s. Even with CG, most people will have to sell at least part of their portfolio, if they want to eliminate debt, say at retirement.

    Profile photo of 1Winner1Winner
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    Originally posted by wezwaz:

    Why are retirements going to drain the share market? Even in retirement you want your money invested in something other than cash. People don’t just go and cash their Super and park it at the bank.

    Explain why there will be a wave of selling.

    Wes.

    Precisely. I cannot see myself selling all my income producing assets in 20 years time to do what? Give it to the bank for 5% interest?
    Go on a shopping spree around the world? I think that baby boomers have demonstrated beyond reasonable doubt that they are not the type to squander what they have accumulated, nor to fire sell in a flat market. Plus, it is well known that baby boomers will not retire in the way the previous generation have done and will remain in business in a way or another.
    Market trends are important to know, panic is counterproductive.

    May God prosper you always.[biggrin]
    Marc

    Profile photo of foundationfoundation
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    Originally posted by wezwaz:

    Why are retirements going to drain the share market?

    I don’t forsee a sudden wave of selling, but it is reasonable to expect that retirees will continue to choose more conservative investment options. During their income producing years growth is key, therefore they will tolerate the higher risk and volatility of shares. In retirement they require a reasonably secure income stream as well as some degree of capital protection.

    Cheers, F.[cowboy2]

    Profile photo of NobleoneNobleone
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    Hi All,

    Slightly [offtopic] but related to retirement, I got this story e-mailed to me…

    About two years ago my wife and I were on a cruise through the western Mediterranean aboard a Princess liner. At dinner we noticed an elderly lady sitting alone along the rail of the grand stairway in the main dining room.

    I noticed that all the staff, ship officers, waiters, busboys, etc. all seemed very familiar with this lady. I asked our waiter who the lady was, expecting to be told she owned the line, but he said he only knew that she had been on board for the last four cruises, back to back. As we left the dining room one evening, I caught her eye and stopped to say hello. We chatted and I said, “I understand you’ve been on this ship for the last four cruises.” She replied, “Yes, that’s true.” I stated, “I don’t understand” and she replied without a pause, “It’s cheaper than a nursing home.”

    So, there will be no nursing home in my future. When I get old and feeble, I am going to get on a Princess cruise ship. The average cost for a nursing home is $200 a day. I have checked on reservations at Princess and I can get a long term discount and senior discount price of $115 per day. That leaves $85 a day for:

    1. Gratuities which will only be $10 per day.

    2. I will have as many as 10 meals a day if I can waddle to the restaurant or I can have room service (which means I can have breakfast in bed every day of the week.)

    3. Princess has as many as three swimming pools, a workout room, free washers and dryers and shows every night.

    4. They have free toothpaste, razors, soap and shampoo.

    5. They will even treat you like a customer, not a patient. An extra $5 worth of tips will have the entire staff scrambling to help you.

    6. I will get to meet new people every 7 to 14 days.

    7. TV broken? Light bulb need changing? Need to have the mattress replaced? No problem! They will fix everything and apologize for your inconvenience.

    8. Clean sheets and towels every day and you don’t even have to ask for them.

    9. If you fall in the nursing home and break a hip, you are on Medicare. If you fall and break a hip on the Princess ship, they will upgrade you to a suite for the rest of your life.

    Now hold on for the best! Do you want to see South America, the Panama Canal, Tahiti, Australia, New Zealand, Asia or name where you want to go? Princess will have a ship ready to go. So don’t look for me in a nursing home, just call shore to ship.

    PS And don’t forget, when you die, they just dump you over the side at no additional charge!

    Interesting concept.

    Cheers, Nobleone. [biggrin]

    “Making mistakes is just another another tool for learning.”

    Profile photo of wayneLwayneL
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    Originally posted by wezwaz:

    Why are retirements going to drain the share market? Even in retirement you want your money invested in something other than cash. People don’t just go and cash their Super and park it at the bank.

    Explain why there will be a wave of selling.

    Wes.

    I suppose the theory is this:

    Not many people actually have enough invested to be able to live off of the dividends…remembering that dividends are a tad more miserly in the US.

    So lots of folks will need to cash in chunks of shares to fund the shortfall in living expenses.

    The outlaws are in the process of doing this right now…and they ain’t poor by any stretch!

    As the boomers retire a bit of selling momentum may build up, causing others to cash in on the back of negative sentiment.

    That’s the scenario. Whether it happens like that….??????????

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