and.. do u want to tell us the details [:p][:p]
Matt
“If you do what you have always done, you will get what you have always had.”
“Isn’t it time for a change?”
well Matt, the results of stalking myself is that I’ve had to put out a restraining order against me. I turned up in court and argued against myself. Then I followed myself home
)kay henry
So presumably, Kay, you then had to call the cops to report a breach of the restraining order?[:p]
Cheers
MelWe started our involvement with the Investors Club in the first 6 months of their operation some 6/7 years ago when Kevin Young worked from home.
Our involvement was on the other side as a Developer and the Club wishing to sell our properties.
All I can say in the years that we have been involved with the organisation (and they still sell our stock in Brisbane) we have always found them excellent to deal with and we will continue to support them.
With regards to Bec comments about the Journalist from the Courier Mail well all I can say is I was interviewed by both those gentleman and the information we provided on the organisation and another firm similar to the Club was never reported accurately in the Newspapers.
What a suprise !
Cheers Richard
richard at fhog.com.au
http://www.fhog.com.auThere is no such thing as a problem.
Just a solution waiting to be foundRichard Taylor | Australia's leading private lender
Do you mean they do wraps for you?
Bec
NO Bec
We do our own wraps. The Investors Club through their licensed Real Estate agency market and sell our own residential development stock.
Cheers Richard
richard at fhog.com.au
http://www.fhog.com.auThere is no such thing as a problem.
Just a solution waiting to be foundRichard Taylor | Australia's leading private lender
007, and what sort of discount do you sell to them for? Or is there no discount, they just get a commission?
Cheers
MelQld007
Why do you use the investors club and not local real estate agents? Does the investor club get a better return for you?
Cheers
Andrew
Mel & Andrew
All our stock is sold at valuation.
The simply reason we use the Investors CLub is that the Contracts are ready to settle as soon as we have finished the construction or renovation. The Club charge the developer a flat fee of $11,500 + GST for properties upto $300,000 and require no marketing or advertising monies.In Brisbane most REIQ agents dealing with developers stock charge 3% which equates to a similar amount however are also after upfront monies for advertsing and self promotion.
On occassions when we have dual listed the properties the Club has outperformed the local agents every time. Often the local agents target a residential owner occupied market who are keen to see the finished product before proceeding to Contract.
With the Investors CLub our stock is known in Brisbane as high quality and good value for money and investors buy off the plan on past performance.
Cheers Richard
richard at fhog.com.au
http://www.fhog.com.auThere is no such thing as a problem.
Just a solution waiting to be foundRichard Taylor | Australia's leading private lender
So that really proves that the Investors Club have not secured a discount – cos that fee is about what they got out of our purchases – and the units came in at well below that price when being valued.
So much so that the bank I went through decided after that to get all properties valued rather than accept contract price as they had done in the past.
Of course the Investors club will outsell local agents – they have so many people lined up ready, convinced to go, but just waiting for some properties to become available etc. – a captive audience you would say.
thanks 007, that’s confirmed everything for me about the Club.
Cheers
MelMel,
Was the Investors club a part of the two-tiered marketing thing that was happening in Qld when you bought the overvalued place you just mentioned?
kay henry
Some plain English info about the Investors’ Club:
Hi Kay
No, I wouldn’t class the ‘Club’ as part of the two tier marketing – but it’s more that they go on about their ‘bulk buying’ powers gives us discounts blah blah blah, and 007 has just confirmed for me that there is no discount, it’s bought at valuation – although again, I guess it depends which valuer you get on the day.
Herron Todd White valued the ones that we bought at between $10-20K less than what the club was selling them to us for.
As I said, my bank started getting them valued – at about the same time, the ‘Club’ set up its own Home Loan Centre – so they really are a ‘one stop shop’.
With that article, that did stop two of the clubs ‘schemes’ (for want of a better word). One was sort of like landlord protection, except it paid out to you if you just had a vacancy (at some % of the rent), so you still had your normal landlord’s insurance, and this covered extra. Not bad if you needed it, but disallowed by ASIC. I can’t remember the other, but think it was along the same lines.
So it’s not the fundamentals of the club they’re having a go at, and it’s definitely business as usual.
Cheers
MelI have been to a meeting of the investor’s club and don’t agree with their advice of buying 7 properties and borrowing against the increased equity each year. I thought the “advice” was very amateur.
I have read through some of the postings here, but has anyone mentioned how the Investors Club make their money? – They get a commission from the seller / developers on each and every sale – so, my advice – be careful! [V] And check out ASIC – they are interested in them!
THANK YOU for this thread… I was going to attend my first meeting on Wed night & all going well, intended to consider using the Investment Club as a convenient vessel.
Upon reading the ‘threads’, links, articles & some further searches, I have well and truly changed my mind. Thanks melbear, adrianbrown, Qlds007 & all others.
I will be staying home on Wed night… probably reading more informative threads here!
******
…emotion clouds good judgement but is a defining element of character.I too thought about it,
looked at thier site, recieved the mini-stocklist… which just *scared* me with the prices, obviously it’s not the prices that win investors over, so, it must be the Strategy ( how they purchase, move on, purchase etc )decided not to attend, as has been stated it’s a business and they make thier money somehow, to pay advertising etc etc… you can do better yourself with someself education and asking questions here…
[^]REDWING
“Money is a currency, like electricity and it requires momentum to make it Effective”
I guess it really is horses for courses. Personally i at this stage would not use The Investors club. Having said that i have heard they have many satisfied clients. Personally i lean more towards Steve’s way of thinking , it seems much safer to me , but as u all know he has his critics also.
Regards Bear
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DONT MISS OUT!!!!!Hi all,
An interesting thread – and as often is the case there are some divergent thoughts being posted – makes for an interesting world. Apologies in advance for the long post but I am trying to cover a fair bit of territory here.
Please note – I am a Support Member with The Investors Club so disclaimers apply and I have no intention of ‘advertising’ the Club but rather to clarify/correct some of the comments made by various people.
The ‘negative press’ referred to largely took place 12-18 months ago and coincided with the time that The Courier Mail uncovered the operations of Stamford Lyon and some other unusual practices in Queensland real estate, some of which involved some of the big banks. The Club also got caught up in this ‘news storm’ and was on the receiving end of a series of negative articles – but not related to the bank issue, nor Stamford Lyon.
The Ministry of Fair Trading (Queensland) got itself involved about the same time the publicity was at its peak. MOFT ‘investigations’ (to quote news article of the time) revealed no untoward action by the Club. ASIC were involved too and their ‘targets’ were a joint venture operation (which didn’t comply with the Managed Investment Act) and a program that provided subscribing members with a rental subsidy – this program had previously been approved by APRA. Discussions are currently underway to reinstate the rental program – this time ASIC approval.
In 9 years The Club has grown from very rudimentary beginnings to what it is today – a business but with the buying members as its priority – not perfect but with good intentions. Yes – it does earn a fee from each sale and as a Support Member I am quite comfortable indicating to members what it is – as it varies from property to property. At our local meetings we are also up front in explaining the fee structure to people so that there are no surprises.
The Club does share the broker’s commission and these funds go into maintaining the operations of the Club – I ensure that this is explained to members when discussing general finance options with them. As SMs are not licensed brokers and therefore we cannot discuss specific finance details – that is left to the experts.
The Club does not earn any ‘kickbacks’ from QS, property managers, solicitors or building inspectors etc. These are truly independent business – their relationship exists because of the bulk buying power the Club has and the discounts for members often obtained. Nothing more.
Do not forget that there are a number of full time employees who ensure the day to day operations of the Club function as effectively as possible, including such services as leasing coordinators to minimise rental vacancies and pre-settlement building inspections. These people also need to earn an income to support themselves and their families.
I can assure Adrian that there is no requirement to meet ‘sales targets’ but there is an expectation that the members interests be looked after at all times. It is possible this was the real reason your BM left the Club – being a BM (my wife would say an SM too) is almost a 24/7 job – it isn’t something that can be effectively done ‘part time’.
Working closely with my local Branch Manager I can assure you that there are a number of BMs and SMs who take this responsibility very seriously. By way of example one of people I work with had a similar experience to yours with delay in finance. As a consequence the vendor actioned the ‘finance clause’ and onsold the property outside the Club at a higher price. He too had paid for a trip to view – which I unconditionally reimbursed.
And before the cynics think I’m making so much I can afford it – my ‘profit’ over nearly 18 months is less than $1500. I have made considerably more from my properties.
Just as individuals have here been able to give examples of properties that ‘didn’t grow’ or where valuations were an issue. This needs to be balanced with the knowledge there are as many instances when The Club has sold properties cheaper (up to $60000 in one extreme case), or with higher specification levels, than local REA – and where good growth rates have been experienced.
Be aware the Club has a growth orientated investment philosophy and focusses in metropolitan areas where median prices are around Brisbane $350K and Perth $235K. In addition the ‘cheaper’ properties tend to get taken overnight – recently 8 $200K properties went overnight with 23 would be purchasers seeking to buy one of the units.
Don’t overlook the fact that valuations are not as reliable and consistent as some investors think. I have seen valuations differing by over 20% on the same property – this is not a unique occurrence.
As with any property purchase it is essential that individuals undertake their own research – for this reason would be purchasers can analyse any prospective purchase in the comfort of their own home. I can assure the readers of this forum that prospective purchasers are not placed under any pressure whatsoever to buy – and the SMs I associate with go to great pains to ensure that members are fully comfortable and informed with what they are doing.
In closing – do your own research and be comfortable in what you are doing – and there are many ways to skin the ‘property cat’. May we each enjoy successful investments.
Derek
[email protected]Derek
Maybe you can give a quick outline of the clubs purchasing strategy then.. maybe as looked at from a fictional investor purchasing for the first time and moving onward..
Just interested in other strategies, that’s all [^]
REDWING“Money is a currency, like electricity and it requires momentum to make it Effective”
Hi Redwing,
The process I use is to get ’em in and sign the dotted line and bugger the fine print.
But in all seriousness – it must be said from the outset (while wearing my suit of armour) the Club advocates a long term, growth based approach, which is the antithesis of Steve’s cashflow approach. But hey each to their own.
I spend a great deal of time sitting down with would be purchasers (or by email/phone if they live away from me) and discuss the broad outline of the Club approach, find out what they want to achieve, whether and/or how I can assist, what they need to do (include being firm in their aspirations), determining their borrowing/buying capacity, what ‘no go areas’ (price, locality, cashflow, building type etc) they may have, and so on.
This phase of discussions can be very elongated, in a couple of cases over 200+ emails, and can amount to nought – for a whole variety of reasons.
The Club process isn’t complex – buy in growth areas using available equity to finance the purchase without the need for a deposit, as we once knew it. As the property/ies grow in value then continue to milk the growing equity to control other properties, and eventually your retirement.
When the Club first started in 1995 the aim was to ‘buy’ 7 properties (median prices were much lower then) – this has now been up-dated and the new target is property to the value of $1m.
That’s it in a nutshell.
Derek
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