All Topics / General Property / Australia – On a razors edge.

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  • Profile photo of FreckleFreckle
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    @freckle
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    From MB today a couple of charts that should scare anyone capable of understanding them. It's widely believed by Joe public that Aus has a strong resilient economy seeing as we came through the GFC relatively intact. The truth is we're traveling on a razors edge.

    Resources dominate our exports. Coal is struggling and Iron Ore is completely dependent on the fortunes of China

    It's becoming fairly obvious that our fortunes ride on the back of not only China but WA's ability to export. This in turn makes WA extremely high risk. 

    Exports from Western Australia hit a near record 52% share in January

    Our two biggest export markets individually could seriously jeopardise Australia's economic ability. Japan has serious problems of its own and as it tries to depreciate its currency it's logical to assume Aus export will contract. China has serious financial problems of its own and a stated policy of curtailing property prices is crushing demand. Something our resource companies do not want to hear.

    There are already signs that the AUD may begin trending down on the back of declining Chinese property prices.

    While the AUD may become more competitive that simply means we face higher inflation pressures and in all likely hood a concomitant response from the RBA in the form of upward pressure on interest rates.

    The Indian market is trending down along with a the slow but continuing Japanese down trend. I would not be surprised to see the Japanese market downtrend accelerate over the next few years. Korea has remained relatively stable but it is now starting to face serious economic head winds itself. It looks like Korea is being forced into a currency war with Japan as they fight for market share in the same space. None of this is good for Australia.

    Profile photo of DWolfeDWolfe
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    Ok, I'll bite, I'm real smart like that  ;)

    So, Freckle, are you discounting manufacturing and food?

    I found a website (I too have access to Google) http://www.tradingeconomics.com/australia/exports I won't cut and paste the graph, people can look at it there. According to this site, manufacturing and food exports make up 33% of the total. with coal and oil 18% and 9%. So who's to say that after the horse meat lasagna thing our beef exports don't start heading up? Whose to say that in a few years Australia replaces the falling demand in the mining market with food exportation?

    China is a large market at (once again according to this site) 27% of our export market. So what about the other 73% of countries buying our product?

    Also do you think that tomorrow no one will buy they gold we are digging up? Really?

    D

    DWolfe | www.homestagers.com.au
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    Profile photo of FreckleFreckle
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    DWolfe wrote:

    So, Freckle, are you discounting manufacturing and food?

    I found a website (I too have access to Google) http://www.tradingeconomics.com/australia/exports I won't cut and paste the graph, people can look at it there. According to this site, manufacturing and food exports make up 33% of the total. with coal and oil 18% and 9%. So who's to say that after the horse meat lasagna thing our beef exports don't start heading up? Whose to say that in a few years Australia replaces the falling demand in the mining market with food exportation?

    Definitely not but both those sectors are problematic as well. Manufacturing has been contracting on a steady basis for some time and that trend seems set to continue for some time at least.

    Food will be challenging as we move forward. Right now we're up against the water barrier and right after that is energy and right behind that are fertilisers. Given all our smarts, all our new beaut technology we still haven't managed to push food production up over the last 20 years. In fact we're loosing the battle some would say. Globally we need to double food production by 2050. That's only 40 years away!!

    It's likely we'll have problems just trying to maintain production levels as our own population increases. We currently export something like half our production. Those export levels aren't like to increase.

    Quote:
    China is a large market at (once again according to this site) 27% of our export market. So what about the other 73% of countries buying our product?

    They wouldn't be the ones going broke would they. The price of iron ore alone shifted our Terms of Trade (ToT) from positive negative. That's without anything else

    Quote:
    Also do you think that tomorrow no one will buy they gold we are digging up? Really?

    There's no problems there. Where the problem lies is in the manipulation of the price of PM's to keep them down (long story). What that does is suppress mining and consequently,  jobs, capex, exploration, investment etc

    The problem with resources is they make up such a large portion of our export market. 

    This is how it works; Over the last 20 years the world has gone ballistic on a credit frenzy unparalleled in history. That enabled countries like China to climb of the floor and fairly quickly become the worlds manufacturing center for cheap mass produced goods. That in turn meant increased wealth for the Chinese and consequently a spending spree on infrastructure to bring themselves out of the dark ages so to speak and be able to foot it with the rest of the world. That in turn saw a massive increase in demand for our raw materials. that made us kinda rich. Well so we thought. Trouble is our debt levels after this boom don't look too crash hot either.

    Now the problems is that the global economy is running off a cliff so what happens to China. It slows down we slow down. To date its been pumping massive amounts of stimulus into its economy to stop it from tanking. That's led them to a debt situation as bad as the US and a few others. In fact it's probably worse. 

    Resources only have to pull back 10% and we're in trouble.

    Profile photo of tlm1987tlm1987
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    @tlm1987
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    I do enjoy reading your posts Freckle.

    On the flipside, are you suggesting we invest in a large acreage in the middle of no where in order to set up a farm to cash in on the low food production in 40 years times? 

    Profile photo of Gazza21Gazza21
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    China’s balance sheet is ok?
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2013/01/28/is-china-next-to-suffer-a-debt-crisis/

    They’ve actually had to take steps to slow property prices down?
    http://m.brisbanetimes.com.au/business/china-moves-to-stall-housing-boom-20130305-2fjfk.html

    I like to hope that the Chinese aren’t stupid and are capable of managing their finances a bit better than the yanks and Greeks for eg?

    Do people like those at Perth airport do any kind of research before they invest $120m on a new terminal to service fifo demand or have they just built that on a whim?

    And if global demand for food is set to increase/double faster than supply can keep up what effect will that have on prices?

    Profile photo of Gazza21Gazza21
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    Profile photo of FreckleFreckle
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    tlm1987 wrote:

    I do enjoy reading your posts Freckle.

    On the flipside, are you suggesting we invest in a large acreage in the middle of no where in order to set up a farm to cash in on the low food production in 40 years times? 

    Don't need to. When  I was a lad, late 50's early 60's, we lived on the proverbial 1/4 acres section except ours was 1/3 of an acre. The old man had the whole thing planted in vege's initially. Later on it slowly reduced in size and some parts became chicken coups and sheds while others where reserved for larger animals like a sheep with lamb, white ducks (5 breeding pair) a bobby calf for a while until it went to a rural paddock and a couple of weaner pigs. It was a real McDonalds farm there during my formative years. Later on fruit trees and bushes like various berry bushes went in etc. There wasn't much he didn't grow. Old Ma spent many an afternoon bottling fruit, making james and preserving stuff. That place kept us feed, half the street and various relatives and friends. 

    Old man's 80 now and still maintains a garden and glass houses. Still grows more than he needs by a long shot and still makes jams and other condiments. 

    The generation that lived like that are all but gone. It'll be interesting if those skills and the effort required re-emerge if things get tough. I suspect they will to some degree. Necessity being the mother of all invention.

    I believe guerilla gardening is becoming fashionable.

    Profile photo of FreckleFreckle
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    WA will face some challenges come 2014 as resource investment literally drops off a cliff.

    • On the basis of past engineering construction

      commencements, there are reasons to believe that

      there is a risk of a decline in 2014 big enough to take

      2% points off GDP growth in that year unless another

      “mega” project starts soon.

    Implications

    What is interesting about this analysis is the potential for mining

    investment to decline precipitously once existing projects have

    been completed. This “mining cliff” could appear as early as the

    first quarter of 2014. The commencement of new mega projects

    could delay the cliff for 18 months or longer. On the other hand, a

    decline in commencements in response to declining commodity

    prices and rising costs is unlikely to affect mining investment until

    well into 2015 in view of the typical gestation period for projects.

    Any sharp decline in mining investment in 2014 would be highly

    detrimental to growth without an offset. Some of that will come

    from increased mining exports as new projects continue to come

    on stream. However, employment is likely to struggle unless  

    non-mining investment fills the breach.

    Comment from MB (HnH)

    There are only two mega-projects left on the books, Browse and Arrow LNG. Shell has already said it is delaying both. I believe Browse is still a chance to go ahead but not as a terrestrial project. The Browse partners clearly want to use floating LNG, which will actually mean an investment in Korea not Australia (because it supplies the floating behemoth that does the mining). Arrow is less likely again.

    Profile photo of FreckleFreckle
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    Most I think understand how important China's resource imports are to AU. Most don't realise that AU imports mainly consist of resources (majority), tourism and education. In 20 years this dynamic has barely changed. If anything we've only managed to add tourism (by default) and education (again by default).

    Few are probably aware of how precarious China's position is.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-09/chinas-economy-weakest-start-2009

    For what it’s worth, there has been plenty of open criticism of the GDP at-all-costs model and some frank recognition of the scale of the malinvestment already in place. For example, NDRC chairman Zhang Ping candidly admitted that ‘a rising number’ of heavy industries were making losses and ‘lamented’ the overcapacity in steel, aluminium, cement, glass making and coking coal.

    Plants in these sectors, he said, were running at just 70-75% of capacity, while the once booming solar industry was at just 60%. To address their ‘huge difficulties’, Zhang said he was pushing to increase the pace of mergers in these sectors, but also confessed that such an approach has had ‘little success’ in recent years.

    The financial flip side to this was made plain by Li Yining, professor at Beijing University, who warned a CPPCC press conference of nothing less than ‘a possible financial collapse caused by overinvestment amid the country’s new urbanization wave.’ ? you know, the same ’wave’ on which all the CCP’s hopes are being pinned for the coming years?

    In the midst of this, we were treated to the release of the Chinese trade numbers for February which, for reasons of LNY calendar variability, are best combined with those for January when we attempt to gauge the state of play. Intriguingly, imports— not the least imports for number of key commodities, such as copper, iron ore, and oil—were relatively subdued and hence, in keeping with anemic showing of neighboring Korea and Taiwan. But, despite this, exports took a major jump, rising by almost a quarter on the same two months of 2012.

    How did that happen? Has China suddenly and dramatically reduced the contribution of foreign inputs to its output? Was this a staggered liquidation of product built up in QIV’s hot-housed burst of activity? Or was it perhaps an exercise in good, old fashioned, tax and subsidy arbitrage and/or chicanery aimed at evading the current account restrictions?

    We ask this because, although they, too, rose in absolute terms, exports bound for the United States—after all, the fastest growing of all the large, net-deficit  economies—fell to a modern-era record low share while those to Hong Kong soared 60% to a new outright and relative share high. At the same time, the country saw record foreign exchange inflows of more than $100 billion— a marked contrast to last year’s hefty drain of hot money. Not coincidentally, this was a period in which the traditional speculative vehicles, the markets for stock and property, both, were on a violent upward tear.

    Were exports—possibly over invoiced—again being used to wash funds through the somewhat porous capital account barrier, picking up tax rebates, with notional ownership about to change to something ostensibly foreign?owned and based in a foreign tax haven when and if they are subsequently re?imported in the coming months?

    Was this a means to exploit the yen’s twice-in-a-lifetime rate of decline by clandestinely borrowing some of that excess valuation in Abe-san’s fast depreciating currency?

    We have no way of knowing, of course, but we remain duly suspicious.

    For over two years now I've been saying the Chinese gravy train is on a one way trip off a cliff and that our growing dependency would be a disaster in the making. I've never believed the 8%GDP growth story and less in the last two years.

    Jun last year I made the comment "Did China just crash?", when for no apparent reason electricity production just plummeted. It was a lone outlyer that suggested production had simply crashed. Later it was shown that inventories where going through the roof, China was producing but orders had been slowing for months.

    I've always believed growth was closer to a 3-5% range than the hyped and manufactured figures we see pumped throughout the MSM. 

    China still has considerably more capacity for malinvestment. The question is will it continue or will the new leadership reign it in and if yes how much and how fast? Whatever way they choose we have little choice but to bite the bullet. We can only hope its a slow orderly correction that enables our economy to adjust progressively. My gut tells me they'll run for a while yet. This isn't going to get fixed in 5 minutes that's for sure.

    Profile photo of casanovawacasanovawa
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    Problem is that while we are reasonably competitive in the area of cereals and grains for export because of the scale of our industry, for many other products like horticulture and dairy etc we are a very high cost producer and we simply don't have the scale or the capital inputs to make them competitive with many other producers around the world, specially here in WA and so many other producers in South America and Africa and Russia etc are more likely to win markets because of this horse meat issue…   In many agriculture and food markets we are actually small producers aiming at niche markets…  We also can't export many sheep to Middle Eastern markets until they can prove they have the capacity to slaughter the sheep humanely which is self imposed regulation etc…

    We also don't have the same market access to some countries that competitors will because they have better Free Trade Agreements…

    The food and agriculture global markets have always been some of the most corrupted and protected and subsidised you could hope to find and unfortunately while we often do produce often very good products we can't just rely on that to make us globally successful, not in the current environment anyway…

    manufacturing i would also have thought we will always struggle in, what sort of competitive advantage do we have in that area???

    Education is something we should be pushing a lot more, i think we do tourism pretty terribly, i was listening to a presentation the other day and i think someone said that our hotels that we rate as 5 star are often 3 star by other countries comparisons and we charge like they are 7 star…   Whenever i think about holidaying at home or going overseas, overseas always wins…  We have such a lot of work to do…

    I wouldn't mind if mining did go off the boil a bit, i have similarly heard bad news about the future with lack of investment and it might stop Perth's property market from getting even more ridiculous than it is already currently heading…

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