All Topics / Legal & Accounting / Capitalising Refinance Costs

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  • Profile photo of gabsmangabsman
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    @gabsman
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 12

    Hi,

    This is an investment loan.

    I'm in the process of refinancing, and the financier is stating that they will increase the borrowing limit, so that they can pay out the existing finance including any expenses. So basically, what are the tax implications of capitalising these costs, and also what happens with the remaining amount?

    For instance, say it costs only about $700 to pay for administrative and legal costs to refinance the existing loan (which is what they are telling me) then the new financier lends me say an extra $3000, and pays me back the $2300 into my bank account, then what are the legal ramifications?

    Do I have to pay that $2300 back into the loan to keep it tax deductible? Can I pay that $2300 back into the loan or would the loan then be mixed purpose?

    Can refinancing costs like that be capitalised, so the interest on the existing loan amount + refinancing costs be tax deductible?

    This appears to be a bit of a black spot from reading the ATO website. Any advice welcome, as I'm a bit confused.

    cheers,

    gabs

    Profile photo of PLCPLC
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    @plc
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 400

    Hi gabsman,

    An accountant can probably confirm, but this is my take on it.

    The purpose of the loan determines it tax deductibilty. With this extra $3,000, $700 of it is allocated for admin and legal cost costs, which since it is an IP can be proven it is for investment purposes, so the interest on this portion is tax deductible.

    However the extra $2,300 is extra cash that isn't being used for investment purposes, its being put into a bank account with other personal funds meaning non deductibility on that part of the loan.

    PLC | Phoenix Loan Consulting
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    Tom is correct and it could result in the main loan becoming a mixed purpose loan which will also cause problems.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of PLCPLC
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    @plc
    Join Date: 2012
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    Terry, with your comment above, are you saying that because some of the loan is lets say tainted for want of a better word, then the complete loan would be non-deductible?

    I thought that even though it was a mixed purpose loan with no sub accounts, it was as simple as working out the percentage of investment to non-investment and working with that?

    PLC | Phoenix Loan Consulting
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    Melbourne based Mortgage Broker | Making Finance Simple

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Hi Tom

    Yes, a percentage of the loan would be deductible but the problems arise when a person tries to pay down the non deductibe portion. If it is a mixed loan then any repayment to the loan will need to come off the deductible and non deductible parts in proportion to the loan mix. This is a mathematical nightmare and not tax effective as you would be reducing your deductible interest with each repayment.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of PLCPLC
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    @plc
    Join Date: 2012
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    Thanks Terry, basically as I thought. You can't clam that you are paying off the non-deductible portion of the loan first, has to be done in proportion.

    PLC | Phoenix Loan Consulting
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    Melbourne based Mortgage Broker | Making Finance Simple

    Profile photo of DerekDerek
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    @derek
    Join Date: 2004
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    Leave the $2300 undrawn in the loan. 

    Keep it to replace the hot water system, new carpets at the IP etc.

    No interest incurred while the money remains in your loan and retains tax deductibility of interest.

    Speak to the bank and explain why you want the funds undrawn. Believe it or not some bank officers are now starting to understand the tax benefits/penalties of certain actions.

    Profile photo of Richard TaylorRichard Taylor
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    @qlds007
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 12,024

    Derek

    Things must have changed in the West because in the rest of the Country some of the information we see clients provided with by their Bank or Banker still leave a lot to be desired.

    Classic case this morning on a SMSF deal here in Qld where the Bank told the client to sign the purchase contract with 3 names as he yet formed the Security Trustee Company:

    1) Personal Names

    2) SMSF Name

    3) And or Nominee.

    Unfortunately non of these are correct and insertion of any of these names would incurred double Stamp Duty in Qld which would cost the client around $18,000. Thankfully we are doing the doing the deal thru another lender although the initial Bank cant see what all the fuss is about.

    Simple story don't take Tax or Legal advice from anyone who is not licensed to give it.

    Cheers

    Yours in Finance

    Richard Taylor | Australia's leading private lender

    Profile photo of DerekDerek
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    @derek
    Join Date: 2004
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    Hi Richard,

    I certainly wouldn't be getting advice from a bank rather my point was to explain that sometimes you can redirect funds in a manner that suits your needs than simply following what the bank 'normally does'

    Something we have managed to do. Keeps things clean for tax purposes.

    Profile photo of niyiawniyiaw
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    @niyiaw
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 9

    As a slight variation to the above, I refinanced and ended up with approx $14k undrawn in the new IO loan. Each month the interest is reducing the $14k available ie I'm not putting money in to paying off the loan, but it's coming out of the amount undrawn. So if I'm capitalising the interest, I take it I can't claim tax deductions on the interest while I'm not paying anything into the loan. But once I start paying the loan again, I can start claiming tax deductions? Not sure if it makes a difference but currently there is an offset attached to this loan where all my savings is currently sitting.

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    Even though you are not paying the interest it would still be charged to your loan and would normally be deductible.

    But whether what you are doing is ok or not is another matter. The ATO has issued a ruling saying that they can deny a deduction on capitalised interest if the purpose is to pay off the non deductible home loan sooner.

    What is your reason for doing this?

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of niyiawniyiaw
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    @niyiaw
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 9

    Backstory is I bought IP1 about 12months prior to refinancing. When I refinanced to get a better rate, the better rate was only for borrowings of at least 200k. So the lender at the time put down 186k to pay off the old loan and 14k for "renovations". I set up an offset to attach to the loan to reduce interest payable. Currently I have no other debt (living with parents). At the moment I am buying IP2 and the money I have in my offset is providing the deposit. So to free up cash I just let the interest of IP1 eat up the 14k. Though by capitalising the interest, I'm not sure whether I'm digging myself a hole because I would be creating interest of interest?

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Sounds like you have a good argument for it. The ATO has also issued another ruling that interest on interest is deductible if the underlying interest is deductible.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of niyiawniyiaw
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    @niyiaw
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 9

    Which ruling is this? Do you have a link to it by any chance? My only what if scenario, is if I decide to move into IP2 at some stage and make it a PPOR. Then technically the interest on interest I created at some point helped fund a PPOR which makes it non deductible.

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    TD 2008/27

    http://law.ato.gov.au/atolaw/view.htm?docid=TXD/TD200827/NAT/ATO/00001

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

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