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  • Profile photo of mortsmorts
    Participant
    @morts
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 9

    Our PPoR is in my wife's name (beacuse I run a buisness) and it is freehold and conservatively valued at $650k.  Our joint credit card limits total $6.5k and my wife earns $60k gross and she has no other debts.  We are (she is) looking to take out a home equity loan so some stuff can get dome around the house and for future opportunities should they arise and I don't want to be providing details on what we plan to do with the $$ (just like in the good old days!)  We also have two high school students at a medium level private school. 

    All other property is in a discretionary trust that I control and has no bearing on the above.

    Who would you recommend and why – We are obviously looking to get the best possible deal all round and do not need a lot of bells and whistles….

    Thanks in advance.

    Profile photo of Richard TaylorRichard Taylor
    Participant
    @qlds007
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 12,024

    HI morts

    Personally i dont like to give specific lender recommendations on line as usually more hard data is required.
     
    Whilst your wife's income will be used to determine how much she can borrow some lenders may still ask for your income details to show you can service your living allowance, dependants, etc.

    There are some excellent products around for such lending without application, valuation fees especially given the low loan to value. Many lenders will still want a reason for the funding but others will be happy for you to do with as you please without charging an arm and a leg for it.

    I would try and split the loan between what you think you need for personal use and what you think you will use for future investment.

    That way you can keep it nice and clean come Tax time.

    Let us know if you need further information.

    Cheers

    Yours in Finance

    Richard Taylor | Australia's leading private lender

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213
    morts wrote:
    Our PPoR is in my wife's name (beacuse I run a buisness)

    This is a good idea, but it doesn't necessarily mean your property is safe if you are sued. Have you contributed to the repayment of the loan on this property or made other non financial contributions?

    Does you wife have a valid will set up with a testamentary discretionary trust in place?

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of mortsmorts
    Participant
    @morts
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 9

    Thanks for the replies.

    Interesting observation Terryw. 

    I have contributed to the repayment of the loan and other non-financial contributions.  I have assumed (dangerous to do I know!) that if I were to be sued prior to the house being in my wife's name that the property would be a target, however that once the property was in my wife's name, and assuming if I were to be sued it would be post transfer, that the asset would be protected as my wife is not a director of the company although she is a shareholder.

    She does have a valid will, however it is not set up with a testamentary trust.  I understand that a testamentary trust commences upon death and is used to deal with an estate or part of an estate until a certain point in time.  In the situation I have outlined what is the purpose of a testamentary trust?

    On the same theme can a person in their will leave a property to another person's smsf as it is an entity or must it be willed to them as a natural person?  And if it cand be done, does it matter if the trustee of the smsf is a natural person or a corporate trustee?

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    It could be claimed that your wife owns your share of the house, ie 50%, as trustee for you. A court could deem, or construe, that a trust is in place even though you may not have a formal arrangement or agreement in place. This would be a constructive trust. Probably won't happen unless you are looking at big claims and there is big equity. There is a case in which a barrister went bankrupt and the ATO got half his house – FCT v Cummins.

    People generally don't lke to consider death, but all you asset protection methods could be thrown out the window if your wife would leave you the property in her will. Imagine your business fails because the wife has an illness and you are looking after her. You are sued and a judgment is entered against you, You are then bankrupted, but soon inherit the house.

    Testamentary trusts also has some amazing tax benefits for kids under 18.

    You could leave an asset to a SMSF as it is just a trust – but there would probably be some adverse taxation consequences. I hadnt considered this before.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of mortsmorts
    Participant
    @morts
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 9

    I think a distinction could be drawn between being negligence and fraud.
    If you were to act fraudulently (sp?) I expect the recourses available would be wider and significantly more severe than if you were to act negligently.  Also, another layer of protection against negligence is PI insurance.  

    That was where I was heading with the PPoR.  We are in the process of considering setting up a smsf with a corporate trustee and aim to add our children to it when they become adults.  If, rather than leaving the PPor to me as a natural person, she were able to leave it to my super fund the asset would not pass back into my name.  I do not know enough about potential 'adverse taxation consequences' but would like to explore what they may be.  eg – would this be considered   a 'contribution' and taxed accordingly? would this be considered a breach the concessional and/or non-concessional cap?  Would I still be able to live in the property?  It would seem to me, on the surface at least, if this situation did arise and it could be transferred into super it could be a very good outcome. 

    Any more or other thoughts out there…….??

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    Morts, not sure where the fraud and negligence came into it.

    With a negligence case you would, if lost, have a judgment awarded against you. This is what we are protecting against – bankruptcy. If you don't pay a judgment debt there are a few things that can happen and all of them involve the seizure of your property. If you don't have enough propety then you would generally be bankrupted. This is where the trustee in bankruptcy can look at past transactions and commence legal action against wife etc who owe you money or hold assets on trust for you.

    Fraud is a criminal act so you could face gaol as well as civil actions to return the money etc. There is also the proceeds of crime legislation which enables police to seize property which was purchased with money made from crimes. So same as above but worse.

    I think it would not be possible to will an asset to a SMSF for a few reasons. SMSFs are there to provide for the retirement of the members – this is the sole reason. So if the member dies who are you providing retirement benefits for – death is teh ultimate retirement. You would be crediting the account of a surviving member – and this would be a contribution. So you would have to meet all the contribution cap rules etc. A residential house would also be against the rules too, but you would be a related party.

    The testamentary trust would work well and may even assist if you were to later remarry and then divorice. But only slightly. If would assist your children more if they were to later marry and divorce (because the assets of the trust would not have been built up by their efforts).

    There is also extra ta benefits- children can receive income from a TT at dult rates meaning approx $16,000 per year each. This becomes $20,542 from next year. That is huge. Imagine if you rented the house out in the future and had 2 kids – your family could receive $40,000 pa in rental income tax free.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of mortsmorts
    Participant
    @morts
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 9

    Thanks Terry – for the thought you have put into the SMSF and TT proposition. 

    I would like to think PI insurance would stand me in good stead in a negligence case should it arise and I don't anticipate having a case of fraudulence to answer to!!

    All the best, Morts

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    Morts

    PI insurance wouldn't help if you had debts you couldn't pay.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

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