All Topics / General Property / JV with land owner – Advice needed!

Viewing 5 posts - 1 through 5 (of 5 total)
  • Profile photo of Naremburn123Naremburn123
    Member
    @naremburn123
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 61

    Hi guys,

    I've found a land owner(in Sydney) who is willing to do a JV with myself and a builder. He provides the land and the builder and I take care of the development. We then pay him at the end. Possibly all in cash, but possibly with stock (a villa) and some cash.

    But the builder says he's seen arrangements like this turn sour in the past, as because we don't own the land, getting finance through out the project can be difficult. This is because when you require extra funds etc, you need the involvement of the land owner. So the builder will only do the project if we own the land outright.

    Now.. if the vendor is willing, is there a way to get around this?? can we buy the land off the vendor at a nominal price ( say $100,000) almost as a deposit, with a contract stipulating that the remainder of the funds will be paid later. This way, we save a heap on interest payments and still maintain control of the land. Of course this is if the vendor is willing.

    My question is – What are the possible problems that can arise with attempting this? 
    How does the taxation department view it?
    Can you actually sell a property that far below market value?
    Will we still be liable for the full amount of stamp duty on the property's " fair market value"
    If we gave the vendor a Villa and cash at the end of the project. Would we pay GST on that villa? as we've created a "new dwelling" in the eyes on the tax man, but not actually sold it?
    Is there another way to do this?? can the vendor sign a form that gives us a virtual power of attorney( or something equivalent) so we don't need to sign a form every time we need more money for the development??

    Sorry to bombard you all! But I'm a bit out of my depth here and would appreciate any advice you can offer.

    Cheers

    Naremburn.

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    Many issues.

    Transfers of land are assets at market value – for both stamp duty (OSR) and CGT (ATO).

    Is the current owner willing to borrow money with you? If so you could transfer a part of the land to yourselves (or your entity). All names would be on title and then you could borrow. But all names would be borrowing.

    Or

    You could transfer the land to a new entity which you all control. More stamp duty but you can play around with the borrowing side a bit more.

    or

    You two could buy the land in total and do it yourself. The owner is likely to want a mortgage on the property though and that ma hurt your ability to finance.

    or

    Get the owner to do it all on his own with you guys providing building works.

    Whatever you do if you are just leaving him a villa and ownership isn't changing then this villa shouldn't have GST on it as it is not changing hands.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of Naremburn123Naremburn123
    Member
    @naremburn123
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 61

    Thanks Terry,
    Some great thoughts there. With the first two options, would the owner have to pay any CGT?. One property(they're side by side) is already his PPR . If we're transfering the properties to a new entity, but he's not selling them, then he can't be liable for CGT? Is that right?

    Also with this option – Get the owner to do it all on his own with you guys providing building works. How does the CGT get calculated? If he knocks down 2 houses and builds six. Sells five and keeps one. Do we just pay GST on the five that are sold then distribute the profit? I'm assuming they'd be no stamp duty at all??

    Profile photo of Naremburn123Naremburn123
    Member
    @naremburn123
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 61

    Thanks Terry,
    Some great thoughts there. With the first two options, would the owner have to pay any CGT?. One property(they're side by side) is already his PPR . If we're transfering the properties to a new entity, but he's not selling them, then he can't be liable for CGT? Is that right?

    Also with this option – Get the owner to do it all on his own with you guys providing building works. How does the CGT get calculated? If he knocks down 2 houses and builds six. Sells five and keeps one. Do we just pay GST on the five that are sold then distribute the profit? I'm assuming they'd be no stamp duty at all??

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    Generally the main residence and 2 hectare surrounding it can be CGT exempt. I think the exemption can apply to land on a separate title if it is next door.

    Transferring ownership to a different name (incl another entity) will be the same as a sale so CGT would apply (unless the main residence exemptions can apply) and stamp duty.

    If he keeps in his name and develops then CGT would apply, but part of it would be exempt. GST would also apply on the sale of the new properties too.

    Actually if the intention is to develop CGT may not apply, it would probably be just straight income tax.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

Viewing 5 posts - 1 through 5 (of 5 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic. If you don't have an account, you can register here.