All Topics / Help Needed! / My idea (pick it apart – tips please) REALLY REALLY NEED HELP

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  • Profile photo of bullet46bullet46
    Participant
    @bullet46
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 51

    Hey guys,

    My wife and I are 24 yrs old and currently live with her family paying little per week in rent ($100p/wk). We both earn around 55-65k per year as a teacher and a purchasing officer. We have no loans of any descriptions but do have a little nest egg of 125k after the sale of our previous property and savings. Heres the thoughts running through my head…

    Option 1 (perhaps the better optiuon as its her thought): We buy a block of land and then build another house which would end us up with a mortgage of around $250,000. We then investment in an investment property however it would be in Toowoomba so we would be negative gearing by $80-$100 p/wk (as told by our accountant or better yet his spread sheed).

    Option 2 (my idea): We sacrifice living in another brand new home and we buy a place worth around $200,000-$210,000. We take out a loan for the balance ($75000) and run it over two years. We keep a tennant in the property for the first 6 months to help us pay back the loan. After the 6 month period is up we move into the house as we have over stayed our welcome with the inlaws. 2 Years time from now we own our first property and buy an investment property using a principle and interest loan with an offset account. Obviously we place tennants into the IP and then service the short fall on the loan as well as build up a nest egg into the offset account. Give it 12 months and then using equity or cash deposit, buy a second IP and repeat the cycle.

    I would love to hear some constructive critism or perhaps some ideas/thoughts. I do admit that I am a noob when it comes to this stuff some Im presenting my idea to hear from more experienced people such as yourselves.

    Thanks
    James

    Profile photo of Jacqui MiddletonJacqui Middleton
    Participant
    @jacm
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 2,539

    Hi James

    Have either of you benefited from the FHOG (first home owners grant) before?  If not, you'd be wanting to get your hands on that and would therefore need to ensure you comply with the rules about living in the house for the first 6 or 12 months or whatever the ruling is now.

    I'm not understanding why you would want to get yourself a PPOR (primary place of residence) mortgage with a $250k debt and then go and buy a negatively geared investment as well.  I personally think you would be better off focussing on the PPOR only for a year or two and getting that under control, as it is non-deductible debt.  That said, get an interest-only loan with offset account and pull all monies into the offset account; not onto the mortgage.  This will enable you to change your mind about the purpose of the house later on and if desired, convert it to an investment property with deductible debt. 

    Jacqui Middleton | Middleton Buyers Advocates
    http://www.middletonbuyersadvocates.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    VIC Buyers' Agents for investors, home buyers & SMSFs.

    Profile photo of bullet46bullet46
    Participant
    @bullet46
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 51

    Hello JacM

    Thanks for your reply.

    Yes we have received the first home owners grant back when it was $21000 to buy or build a new property. The $21000 assisted us to build our first PPOR.

    Im not wanting to build another house with a 250k debt however my wife likes the idea of a new house. My thinking is to save really hard and own a cheaper house. We would then have more free cash to pour into other properties. I also thought that having a P & I loan we would be able to build equity faster rather than waiting for capital gains with an I/O loan on a negative geared property…?

    James
     
     

    Profile photo of Jacqui MiddletonJacqui Middleton
    Participant
    @jacm
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 2,539

    You will build equity at the same rate regardless of whether you are on a P&I loan or an I/O loan with offset.  So longer as you pour the same amount of money in, it is the same.  eg if you normally pay $700 a month towards a P&I loan, of which $400 is the interest component, then on an I/O loan, you'd pay your $400 interest, and you'd whack the remaining $300 in the offset account.  Thus you are indirectly "paying off" the property at the same rate.  The difference is you didn't hand the $300 over to the mortgage.  It's harder to get that money back once you do so.  You have to re-apply for additional loans and thus pay the application fees. 

    Jacqui Middleton | Middleton Buyers Advocates
    http://www.middletonbuyersadvocates.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    VIC Buyers' Agents for investors, home buyers & SMSFs.

    Profile photo of MarJacMarJac
    Member
    @marjac
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 71

    In QLD you can now get $10,000 QLD Building Boost payment for building or buying a new house. This is separate from FHOG.

    Relatively small amount but may help to tip the balance

    Profile photo of colinnewlandcolinnewland
    Participant
    @colinnewland
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 128

    Forget about a 'new' home; they cost more than an older home to start with. If you dump all your cash into a home, you cannot claim any as a tax deduction either. make sure its placed into a trust so that you can use it as an IP at a later stage.
    Building a new home will also tie you up for at least 12 months with your stress factor going thru the roof with delays, council approvals, rain holds etc etc.
    Make sure any IP you buy is a POSITIVE income property.
    Use as small a depsoit as possible and buy as many as possible.
    Place them ALL into a discretinary trust so you never limit your borrowing capacity.
    Look at doing the buy, reno, rent as an easy start to building your wealth.
    Get them all revalued every 6-12 months then use the additional equity to build futher.
    Sell off any non preforming assets ASAP as they occur and use the released equity to buy in a better area (close to the CBD ~10km's).
    Another good method is the Rent-to Buy/Option method where you take over the sellers mortgage (at say $3,000/mth) and then move it onto a 'buyer' where they do the reno themselves (over say 6-8 weeks) with the bank accepting the added value as their 10% depsoit with you negociating a higher price to start with (say a 10% profit margin). The GREAT advantage of this method is that you can handle 10-12 deals AT THE SAME TIME! making ~$25K on a basis $250K rent/buy option deal; AND you never have to pony up the stamp duty (as you have not purchased/transfered the property to yourself.

    REMEMBER: You are looking to make the most amount of money in the least amount of time and NOT making the most amount of money in every deal.

    Profile photo of Blue Ridge HomesBlue Ridge Homes
    Participant
    @blue-ridge-homes
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 32

    Hi James,
    One size doesn't fit all.   For my two bobs worth…
    You are in a great starting position.
    The buiding boost is only around for contracts signed before the end of January 2012 (construction within 2 years).
    By buying vacant land or off the plan you minimise your stamp duty costs
    Take advantage of the boost, the current great time to build anyone (lot of suppliers and trades keen for work) and build some instant equity thru that.

    As the boost is not limited to being for your PPOR you could consider 2 new properties (you'll get 2 x the boost)
    either – one for yourselves and one as an IP. 
    Or my favoured options if everything is going well with you living with your in laws buying or building 2 new investment properties and delaying getting back into a PPOR for another 12 months…. 

    From what I can see of your numbers you could get approval for say up to $624,000 of property without mortgage insurance (subject to servicability but remember the bank will be able to take into account at least 70% of the rental income).  Plus you'd get the extra $20K from the 2 boosts.

    So lets say you buy 2 new properties at $312K or less each (total outlay $624K)

    Which means a total debt of just under $500K if borrowed to 80% (I'm a fan of avoiding mortgage insurance or extending beyond 80% in any case)

    If you budget on 7% interest rate thats $35K per year for the 2 properties

    If rented out at $285 per week each that would bring you in $30K before taking out management fees

    Additionally you'll have the benefits of depreciation on new property and the immediate capital growth you've created thru new property and you would have taken advantage of the current grant (is not limited to one property).

    I would then consider selling one of the 2 properties you've bought a year after you've bought it (so that you are eligible for the 50% CGT discount) and buying or building your next PPOR then with more equity to begin with.

    Being that they aren't the properties you are going to live in they could be anywhere in Qld not limited to Toowoomba (which by the way I've nothing against – from everything I've seen is a good steady long term market, just that there may be other areas where you might be able to get into more affordably for an investment property with good capital growth prospects).

    All the best with whatever you decide to do.

    Profile photo of xdrewxdrew
    Participant
    @xdrew
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 479

    Hi Bullet46 .. kudos to you for putting your foot forward in the search for new ideas !!

    Personally I dont like either of your current options … and I will endeavour to explain why as we go through.

    bullet46 wrote:
    Option 1 (perhaps the better optiuon as its her thought): We buy a block of land and then build another house which would end us up with a mortgage of around $250,000. We then investment in an investment property however it would be in Toowoomba so we would be negative gearing by $80-$100 p/wk (as told by our accountant or better yet his spread sheed).

    This is very much the old classic .. buy a house with land .. build on the back .. and we'll all make money approach. Nice .. cheap and affordable. But building a house takes time and money and involves dealing with 'reputable' builders. Expect at least a year or two before you see anything happen on a deal like this.

    bullet46 wrote:
    Option 2 (my idea): We sacrifice living in another brand new home and we buy a place worth around $200,000-$210,000. We take out a loan for the balance ($75000) and run it over two years. We keep a tennant in the property for the first 6 months to help us pay back the loan. After the 6 month period is up we move into the house as we have over stayed our welcome with the inlaws. 2 Years time from now we own our first property and buy an investment property using a principle and interest loan with an offset account. Obviously we place tennants into the IP and then service the short fall on the loan as well as build up a nest egg into the offset account. Give it 12 months and then using equity or cash deposit, buy a second IP and repeat the cycle.

    I do understand the satisfaction from a mental perspective of owning your home outright. However at your age there really is no need to get either excited or chase that prospect. At your age you should be chasing a wealth building strategy which leads you to getting a better house and a better lifestyle.

    Now for my complaint on your current strategies. Both are what you would call SLOW COOKED solutions. They'll come good .. and both of them will. But you are relying on two major components .. a steady increment .. and both your jobs being consistant. Slow Cooked property solutions DO work over time .. but they are time wasting and they sap all your financial freedom in the meantime while you service the loans.

    Since you seem to have the parents on your backs already .. I would suggest dividing your base into an existing IP and a house. You'll be putting more into the deal initially, but long term you'll have the money you borrow on the house as PPOR capital .. the tax deductions from the IP property to offset against your income (people forget how handy that is) the rents from the IP to be added to your income assessment for your next loan and two separate bundles of equity to borrow against for any new investment strategies. You want to build at the back? Buy a house with a land component as your PPOR. Do it later .. with the money you'll keep from your new IP.

    The only difference between my suggestion and yours is the time factor. With mine you get the house .. and an IP working for you from day one. With Option 1 you gotta build a house at the back to make anything (9 months to a year before you see ANYTHING) The other option … Option 2 gives you a property you've paid off … and the real question is .. WHY? You make money from other people's money stretching your capabilities .. and why not get that whole deal working HARD for you?

    Need to explore tax deductions on an Investment property? Go talk to a good tax accountant .. he'll know what you can and cant claim. Why pay more to the taxman than you need to?

    Thats my current assessment of your situation. The other thing that works for you is time. And at 24 you've still got lots of it. But dont waste it on poor strategies and incoherant solutions.

    Profile photo of WomeninPropMelbWomeninPropMelb
    Member
    @womeninpropmelb
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 234

    Yes, Xdrew is right- Explore tax options and deductibles. I attended a seminar yesterday which said Toowoomba is a GREAT investment area as there is plenty of growth in Qld- QBB attests to that. Its a “fly in – fly out” are for mining they said.

    Profile photo of Blue Ridge HomesBlue Ridge Homes
    Participant
    @blue-ridge-homes
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 32

    Agree – nothing wrong with Toowoomba – was just pointing out that choices don't need to be limited to there and a great idea to diversify if already in the Twmba market

    Profile photo of Richard TaylorRichard Taylor
    Participant
    @qlds007
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 12,024

    Hi James

    Wouldn't have an issue with either option however structure is more important to ensure you maximise your Tax deductions as well as increasing your cash flow and net wealth.

    Personally i would go IO with 100% offset and if you have any question as to whether the property will be an IP in the future (even if it starts out as a PPOR) would look to maximise your borrowings and incur LMI if necessary.

    Certainly from some of the valuations we are getting back from the Toowoomba market for other clients it seems to have improved a lot from earlier in the year and prices are certainly starting to creep up again. 

    Cheers

    Yours in Finance

    Richard Taylor | Australia's leading private lender

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