All Topics / Help Needed! / QLD mining regions (Bowen & Surat Basins & Gladstone): Willing to help anyone with questions

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  • Profile photo of Josh AthertonJosh Atherton
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    Hi Keystrategies,

    Thanks for your post its great!

    The Bowen Basin has two major service centres. To the south is Emerald and to the North is Mackay. Although that is not where all of the miners live they are the two areas that provide major infrastructure and servicing for the mining and rich agricultural activities throughout the Bowen Basin. There are towns like Dysart, Moranbah, Blackwater, etc that get a large concentrated number of mines wanting to rent out houses. This is great for investors as you have discovered with the purchase of your duplex, you receive such high ROI in way of rents and potential capital growth.

    Should the mines impose a 100km radius for workers this would actually have the opposite effect on Emerald than you are thinking. A large number of people that work in the mines in the south of the Bowen Basin live in Rockhampton and Yeppon. This would mean that they would have to move. If this is implemented by some mines, it is not an overall mining industry rule, it will be imposed by certain mines and not all. The mines at alpha for instance wouldnt, or should i say couldnt, impose such regulations as this would mean they would all have to live in Alpha which is impossible due to no infrastructure etc.

    As a part of mining recruitment, and as much higher demand appears for skilled employees, many mining companies must offer lifestyle for their workers to encourage longevity. It is common knowledge that the mines do not expect to retain employees on a long term basis when housing them in places with limited infrastructure and lifestyle opportunities.

    There are a number of motels in Emerald, many of which are not that old, the demand comes from a number of fly in fly out workforce, however this is quite often due to the service and contracting industries that are based there. As the regional hub for the south of the Bowen basin it also attracts many business visitors which occupy a large percentage of the accommodation.

    Emerald has significantly more infrastructure than Blackwater and always will. The international coal centre is basically and information and tour centre for visitors to the area. It was placed there as Blackwater is considered to be the coal mining capital of Australia due to the number of mines around it. Despite this being the case over the last decade at least, Emerald has continued to attract more people, more businesses, more mine offices and more infrastructure than Blackwater. In fact the cafe that opened up at the visitor centre had closed down for a while.

    During the last GFC Emerald outshone all of these areas in regards to real estate. Prices did not fall, rents were secure and reasonably steady, and the town continued to prosper during such dire times while other regional centres failed to perform to the level that Emerald did as mines cut funding etc for short periods of time and re-structured. What Emerald positions itself as, is a long term, secure investment which also achieves reasonable rents and good solid capital growth as a large percentage of the population is owner occupiers, hence the lifestyle opportunities and the ability to sustain a family model in this area. If you are looking to hold a property for 10+ years, you would obviously be looking for long term growth and security as a property investor. The likes of Bunnings Warehouse/wesfarmers group, Gerry Harvey, centro, woolworths all seem to be of the same mindset here as they look to secure a presence/and or a larger market share in Emerald. Families move to Emerald for long term employment, education & lifestyle. With a choice of schools, tafes and the Central QLD university positioned in Emerald it provides a family with the ability to raise their children in the region and also provides the infrastructure for the kids to further their education and or employment with a wide array of employment opportunities, not just mining. Many other regional towns cannot offer this so they will continue to be subject to such a transient population. I believe that investing in regional QLD is no just about trying to achieve the highest rent possible, it is the longevity and continued capital growth that many investors also look for.

    In regards to chinchilla area, excuse my ignorance on it, which mega-mines were you referring to? there is the wandoan coal project which has the ability to produce a large amount of export coal, I wasn’t aware of other mines that had this export capacity.

    I am keen to hear your thoughts on all of this.

    Profile photo of shoooshooshoooshoo
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    KeyStrategies wrote:
    Hi Josh and everyone……

    All in all its an interesting part of the country and I will be adding a couple more properties to my portfolio up there over the next few years but I will be proceeding with caution.

    Cheers – keep up the good work

    hi Mate, which megamines are these are you talking about, where are they located, and which company is starting them.

    Thanks.

    Profile photo of shoooshooshoooshoo
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    Yeah that is my question as well Josh, which mines ae these nar chinchilla?

    Profile photo of shoooshooshoooshoo
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    Key Strategies…are you referring to the proposed expansion of the Cameby Downs mine:

    http://www.derm.qld.gov.au/environmental_management/impact_assessment/eis-processes/cameby_downs_expansion_project.html

    also…

    http://www.deedi.qld.gov.au/cg/resources/major-projects/presentations/mpc-09-erik-schafer-darian-hielscher.pdf

    according to the governement website, it is currently under Environmental impact study EIS, not sure when this will be completed. it is supposed to expand the workforce from 100 to 600

    Profile photo of KeyStrategiesKeyStrategies
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    Hi everyone

    The major mines I was referring to are closer to Miles – Wandoan by Xstrata yet to commence and Cameby Downs as you have noted

    For Information on the Surat Basin see below (courtesy of http://www.greenakersestate.com.au/)  David Sweetapple is the local Agent and a Land Developer in Miles

    The Surat Basin region is a rich resources and energy province stretching across the Western Downs, Maranoa and Toowoomba regions.  It is reported to be the fourth largest gas producing region in the world with proposed capital expenditure currently at around $140 billion. 

    Because of its large resources of open-cut thermal coal and coal seam gas, it’s set to be one of the boom economies in Australia.

    Population growth in the Western Downs region alone is predicted to jump from 30,000 to 75,000 over the next few years and the State Government has allocated $24 million dollars of funding to the region’s development.

     Planned and committed projects include:

    Wandoan Coal project (Xstrata Coal Queensland Pty Ltd)

    Wandoan Power Project

    Surat Basin Rail (Wandoan link to Banana/Gladstone)

    Condamine Power Station (QGC)

    LGN gas pipelines to Gladstone (Arrow Energy; BG-QGC; Origin Energy)

    Surat Gas Project (Arrow Energy)

    MetroCoal drilling program

    UCG fertilizer and UCG Power station (Carbon Energy)

    Wind Farm (AGL)

    Coal Mine: Guluguba/Wandoan (Cockatoo Coal)

    Kogan Creek Power Station (CS Energy)

    Ergon Energy Infrastructure

    CSG Power Station Braemer (ERM Power)

    UCG gas to liquid plant (Linc Energy)

    Substation (Powerlink)

    Cameby Downs Coal Mine (Syntech)

    Moonie Oilfields (Santos)

    Nathan Dam to Dalby water pipeline (SunWater)

    Warra and Glen Wilga Coal mines (Tarong Energy)

    Tarong to Wandoan powerline (Powerlink)

    Wandoan Gas and carbon project (GE Energy)

     

    Read more about the booming Surat Basin Region:

    Qld Govt funds SUrat Basin Projects March 2010

    Surat Basin to become one of the nation's boom economies

    Surat Basin receives $23.65 million in State Government funding March 2010

    Trust that this info assists you in making a decision and taking action to invest in property

    As my JV Partner keeps telling me – Property Investment is NOT Rocket Science you just need to have the commitment (Balls) to back your judgement and actually do something

    Cheers

    Profile photo of KeyStrategiesKeyStrategies
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    Portfolio PI wrote:
    Hi Keystrategies, Thanks for your post its great! The Bowen Basin has two major service centres. …………….. I am keen to hear your thoughts on all of this.

    Hi Josh Thank you for your comprehensive answer – lots to consider and you have some very valid points – Emerald is quite a large and established centre that should provide stability in the longer term but then towns like Moranbah are growing also.

    I think it comes back to the strategy an investor wishes to pursue and how they wish to allocate their portfolio and spread risk. I like some of the smaller towns up in the region with high rent returns which I balance out with IP's In Sydney which has more perceived security and capital growth prospects.

    On the other Hand I have a colleague  who is heavily invested in Dysart – a bit too risky for me – (but that's just how I see it) he is quite comfortable with it and has had great capital growth and increases in rental returns.

    I think you summed it up quite well in saying that "What Emerald positions itself as, is a long term, secure investment which also achieves reasonable rents and good solid capital growth as a large percentage of the population is owner occupiers, hence the lifestyle opportunities and the ability to sustain a family model in this area. If you are looking to hold a property for 10+ years, you would obviously be looking for long term growth and security as a property investor. "

    Emerald may be a place that I might consider to invest at some point in the future but I feel there are some better options for me around at present in the smaller surrounding towns as I am looking for cashflow rather than long term growth – just my strategy for where I am in my property investment cycle.

    I also believe that investing in property is not just about trying to achieve the highest rent possible, it is the longevity and continued capital growth that I and other investors also look for – but sometimes you can achieve cashflow in one area and capital growth in another.

    With regard to the Surat Basin (Miles and Chinchilla) I have replied on a separate post.

    Thanks

    Profile photo of shoooshooshoooshoo
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    Having a look at REIQ.com.au suburb/town profile, Emerald's property prices have been flat since 2007, after great gains between 04-07.  The flat period concerns me abit. 

    Profile photo of Josh AthertonJosh Atherton
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    shoooshoo wrote:
    Having a look at REIQ.com.au suburb/town profile, Emerald's property prices have been flat since 2007, after great gains between 04-07.  The flat period concerns me abit. 

    Yes it was a little bit lower than the previous years, none the less still some growth. Each town fluctuated in its own right during the GFC. the 10% growth so far this year has been great!

    Also the investment that happened in the last mining boom is negligible compared to the next 4 years. And look what happened to Emerald than!

    Profile photo of Josh AthertonJosh Atherton
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    KeyStrategies wrote:
    Portfolio PI wrote:
    Hi Keystrategies, just my strategy for where I am in my property investment cycle.

    I also believe that investing in property is not just about trying to achieve the highest rent possible, it is the longevity and continued capital growth that I and other investors also look for – but sometimes you can achieve cashflow in one area and capital growth in another.

    With regard to the Surat Basin (Miles and Chinchilla) I have replied on a separate post.

    Thanks

    Hi,

    Thanks for all of those links, I’ll be sure to have a look at them all. One of the great things I like about investing in regional QLD is the diverse opportunities that present itself with each town. I am not anti or even pro any particular town although I do have my favourites for personal investing, I think each region/town are all great investments on their own merits. Each person must do what is right for there own strategy and its great that you have found that also.

    With your property in Moranbah, will you rent it out furnished or unfurnished?
    Cheers,

    Profile photo of KeyStrategiesKeyStrategies
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    Hello Josh

    I will be renting out the duplex unfurnished – Just about to appoint agents and have been advised that the rental market has moved up again. I can now expect rents of $1900 to $2000 per unit per week – Moranbah is on fire.

    Time to remember this quote by Warren Buffet

    "Be fearful when others are greedy and be greedy only when others are fearful”.

    This famous quote by the genius and hugely successful stockbroker and Investor, Warren Buffett sums up the right way of looking at any investment market and applies to the property market. In short, he’s saying to buy low and sell high, this may sound simple but as it’s human nature to get caught up in the excitement of a rising property market and to walk away in fear from great opportunities when it pulls back a little, it’s easier said than done.

    Looks like its time to reassess my property investment strategies again

    Cheers

    Profile photo of JT7JT7
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    Hi Josh,

    I know your bullish on Emerald and would be interested in your opinion, and anyone else with experience in this market, your preferred product ie. unit or house considering future developments in the area and having made a selection whether new or established?

    Jack

    Profile photo of KeyStrategiesKeyStrategies
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    KeyStrategies wrote:
    Hello Josh

    Time to remember this quote by Warren Buffet

    "Be fearful when others are greedy and be greedy only when others are fearful”.

    Here is an article that makes interesting reading and should make smart property investors wary
    http://www.dailymercury.com.au/story/2011/07/21/bidders-queue-to-buy-homes-moranbah-investment/
    the front page of the paper was about a house that Sold for $840k a new record High

    I think this is a great sign for the surrounding areas based on concentric investment theory
    cheers

    Profile photo of shoooshooshoooshoo
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    Hey guys,

    have you considered Blackwater? i’m trying to search for the next Moronbah/Dysart, do you think this could be it?

    Profile photo of Josh AthertonJosh Atherton
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    shoooshoo wrote:
    Hey guys,

    have you considered Blackwater? i’m trying to search for the next Moronbah/Dysart, do you think this could be it?

    Personally I don’t think so, Emerald is 75km away, just to close to make it like Dysart or Moranbah where Mackay is at least 200km away. Although blackwater has some great returns and growth also. it has taken off a lot already over the last 12 months but not to the extent of Moranbah or Blackwater. If you really want a gamble, Wandoan, or even Alpha itself. Remember, the Alpha mines still need a small amount of accommodation there, and considering the town is tiny it will really impact it.

    Profile photo of KeyStrategiesKeyStrategies
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    shoooshoo wrote:
    Hey guys, have you considered Blackwater? i'm trying to search for the next Moronbah/Dysart, do you think this could be it?

    Hi SHOOOO, Josh and everyone

    I agree with Josh – While I like Blackwater I don't feel it will be another Dysart or Moranbah. From my research and experience these are my thoughts – Emerald is a large inland centre that has good potential now that there are new mines opening in Alpha and there are other mine expansions happening to its north add to that the fact that Moranbah and Dysart have just had a price explosion and you have to ask yourself are these good positive signs for future growth and expansion for Emerald.
    Moranbah is a growing town and will come into its own down the track – they are trying to be the next Emerald and could do it over time IF there is more land released for development. Dysart is in a unique position and is pretty well land locked. Plus both these towns are currently in a hot market I am taking WB's advise and being cautious right now.

    Blackwater has potential but will be overshadowed by Emerald due to its proximity to Emerald.  But I think it has some good potential cashflow positive property where Emerald may have better potential for capital growth long term. Capella and Clermont are interesting towns but I am not sure about them – Clermont is west of Moranbah and Capella is north of and close to Emerald and smaller than Blackwater.

    I haven't been to Alpha so I won't comment on it – I think Wandoan could be a smaller version of Dysart but Xstrata has to get the mine operational and since that is some time away. its a bit of a punt – right now it is a small town – I would prefer Miles if I was investing in the that part of the Surat Basin.

    Back to the Bowen Basin – Middlemount is interesting but for some reason doesn't appeal to me (at this time) and then there is NEBO which I think has been overlooked and has some potential – there is still some cheap land available its 100 km from Mackay and 100 km to Moranbah and on the Junction to Dysart and Middlemount. AND there is a new railway maintenance depot about to be built at NEBO and its one big shed which will be able to house a full length coal train under one roof – that's about 2 kms in length.

    See attached links http://www.dailymercury.com.au/story/2011/06/01/coal-rail-project-delivers-jobs/

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/06/01/3232793.htm?site=capricornia

    http://www.railwayobserver.com/index.php/freight/oceania/426-pacific-national-to-invest-aud-150-milliuon-in-four-new-train-facilities

    http://www.ndy.com/projects/nebo-rail-maintenance-facility

    Josh – you are the regional expert – I know that Emerald is your favorite town – However I would like the hear what your thoughts are on the potential of Nebo as a place to invest?

    Profile photo of Josh AthertonJosh Atherton
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    JT7 wrote:
    Hi Josh,

    I know your bullish on Emerald and would be interested in your opinion, and anyone else with experience in this market, your preferred product ie. unit or house considering future developments in the area and having made a selection whether new or established?

    Jack

    Hi Jack,

    late reply here… I am quite bullish on emerald more for the fact of its security rather than rental yields. I never chase properties for cash flow as I just don’t need to whereas some people do to even out there portfolio with losses made elsewhere. I always go new, mainly due to my relationships with builders, deprecation, and I really don’t like buying other peoples mistakes basically. Also as i really don’t want to spend my days calling tradies to get things fixed. This is okay to do if you only have one or two properties in your portfolio but if you have more it can be quite a hassle.

    In Emerald units or houses are both fairly sought after. 2 bed units are popular, however i always build three bed as there are more buyers in the market for 3 bed units. In saying that, I have a developer doing 2 bedroom units in Emerald, I would furnish these if it was me buying one. These units are good as they are around the $300k mark with good rent so its a great lower entry point.

    A new, quality, 4 bedroom house will always rent the best in my experience. not the lower level typical investment that some builders pump out all in a row, but a nice, 4 bedroom home with 2 good living areas in a good, semi quite street with quality neighbours rents the best. In a mining town you get people doing shift work, so the positioning of the house and the rooms within it can be quite important I believe.

    the houses and duplex units only need 2 bathrooms, you will most likely attract a young couple or a family in Emerald. So furnishing and having extra bathrooms like some other towns wont pay off. This will see less wear and tear on your property also.

    If you have Facebook have a look at our page, I pasted an article there today about the Alpha mines. People overlook Emerald, which to me is great for now while I am quite bullish on it and holding more and more properties there. In three years time people will be wishing they got in now, that’s my belief anyway.

    Profile photo of Josh AthertonJosh Atherton
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    KeyStrategies wrote:
    Josh – you are the regional expert – I know that Emerald is your favorite town – However I would like the hear what your thoughts are on the potential of Nebo as a place to invest?

    Hi,

    At a glance, Nebo’s population declined between 2001 and 2006 by 51%! poor lifestyle opportunities maybe? its median sales price is rising however this is mainly due to a small amount of sales (only three recorded so far this year). I Dont think the rail project will cause the place to “boom” however it could make for good returns with rent.Out of all the companies in regional QLD, the rail companies have always looked for the cheaper accommodation. This isn’t always the case, however there budgets are a lot tighter than the mining companies. It is fairly close to Mackay, I know where I would live if I was only 1hr away from Mackay. I don’t see overflow going from Moranbah to Nebo but I could be wrong.

    The population decline worries me, it takes a long time and careful government and citizen planning for regional cities to get to the level of attracting people and businesses long term. for every 1 job directly created within a coal/mining company, approximately 2 indirect jobs are created. If they dont get created in the same area/region than you loose out on the long term compounding population growth effect.

    Profile photo of Josh AthertonJosh Atherton
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    katmat wrote:
    Thanks for the response and spending time providing me with some clarity on what your company can offer. In essence you are a 1 stop shop for investors from start to finish which I like being a first time potential investor. I’ve done some of my own research and although I like what Emerald and Mackay has to offer, I still feel like there may be some short to medium term investment opportunities there in Gladstone considering it seems to be on the top of most investor searches. Let me know what you might be able to offer there if indeed you have anything available (ie house and land packages under 470K that can deliver high growth and yield?
    Katmat

    Hi Katmat,

    Gladstone should provide some good growth for people there is no doubt about that, just watch the market carefully as you invest there. In regards to packages that we are putting together in Gladstone, there are some large 3 bed units that would come under the $500k mark, I am also negotiating with a number of land developers at present in regards to land that will be released over the next twelve months or so. I am hoping to have some released by the end of December, however this is taking time for the developer to confirm. In regards to build prices, I will be able to have costs hopefully under the $1300 per square metre mark.

    I have two blocks available which will be released in February/March 2012 which are only 300m2 (small but cost effective). you will still fit a small 4 bedroom house on this and have a package for under $400,000. If you furnished it you will still achieve a similar rent as a 4 bedroom house on a 700m2 block. (approx $800 – $ 1000 per week) The peak workforce will be starting by the end of next year, just in time to ride the premium rents.

    Profile photo of JT7JT7
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    Portfolio PI wrote:
    JT7 wrote:
    Hi Josh,

    I know your bullish on Emerald and would be interested in your opinion, and anyone else with experience in this market, your preferred product ie. unit or house considering future developments in the area and having made a selection whether new or established?

    Jack

    Hi Jack,

    late reply here… I am quite bullish on emerald more for the fact of its security rather than rental yields. I never chase properties for cash flow as I just don’t need to whereas some people do to even out there portfolio with losses made elsewhere. I always go new, mainly due to my relationships with builders, deprecation, and I really don’t like buying other peoples mistakes basically. Also as i really don’t want to spend my days calling tradies to get things fixed. This is okay to do if you only have one or two properties in your portfolio but if you have more it can be quite a hassle.

    In Emerald units or houses are both fairly sought after. 2 bed units are popular, however i always build three bed as there are more buyers in the market for 3 bed units. In saying that, I have a developer doing 2 bedroom units in Emerald, I would furnish these if it was me buying one. These units are good as they are around the $300k mark with good rent so its a great lower entry point.

    A new, quality, 4 bedroom house will always rent the best in my experience. not the lower level typical investment that some builders pump out all in a row, but a nice, 4 bedroom home with 2 good living areas in a good, semi quite street with quality neighbours rents the best. In a mining town you get people doing shift work, so the positioning of the house and the rooms within it can be quite important I believe.

    the houses and duplex units only need 2 bathrooms, you will most likely attract a young couple or a family in Emerald. So furnishing and having extra bathrooms like some other towns wont pay off. This will see less wear and tear on your property also.

    If you have Facebook have a look at our page, I pasted an article there today about the Alpha mines. People overlook Emerald, which to me is great for now while I am quite bullish on it and holding more and more properties there. In three years time people will be wishing they got in now, that’s my belief anyway.

    Thanks Josh that was a very informative reply and I appreciate it. I’ll jump on Facebook and have a look at Alpha.

    Keep up the great work it’s very interesting reading.

    Jack

    Profile photo of shoooshooshoooshoo
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    according to SQMresearch, there are 122 properties that have been on the market for sale for more than 2months in Emerald. there are some that have been on since 31st of March 2009!!! what is going on?

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