All Topics / Legal & Accounting / Is stamp duty tax claimable for IP?

Viewing 19 posts - 1 through 19 (of 19 total)
  • Profile photo of ahfutsen2002ahfutsen2002
    Participant
    @ahfutsen2002
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 1

    I am buying my first IP. I am not sure if the stamp duty i pay for the IP would be tax claimable at the end of financial year. Could anyone give me an advise?

    Profile photo of JPS25JPS25
    Participant
    @jps25
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 121

    Stamp Duty is not deductable at the end of the year it is instead added to your base costs and comes into effect when you sell

    Profile photo of Jamie MooreJamie Moore
    Participant
    @jamie-m
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 5,069

    In Canberra you can claim it in the first year.

    Cheers

    Jamie

    Jamie Moore | Pass Go Home Loans Pty Ltd
    http://www.passgo.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Mortgage Broker assisting clients Australia wide Email: [email protected]

    Profile photo of Scott No MatesScott No Mates
    Participant
    @scott-no-mates
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 3,856

    is that on leasehold or freehold Jamie?

    Profile photo of Jamie MooreJamie Moore
    Participant
    @jamie-m
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 5,069

    It’s all leasehold in the ACT.

    Cheers

    Jamie

    Jamie Moore | Pass Go Home Loans Pty Ltd
    http://www.passgo.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Mortgage Broker assisting clients Australia wide Email: [email protected]

    Profile photo of Rob G.Rob G.
    Participant
    @rob-g.
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 70

    There is no freehold in the ACT.

    Don't even bother to ask why … the whole state is another unhappy political compromise that reads better than a Monty Python script.

    Cheers,

    Rob

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    Why Rob?

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of Scott No MatesScott No Mates
    Participant
    @scott-no-mates
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 3,856

    Go on…… I dare you!

    Profile photo of Jamie MooreJamie Moore
    Participant
    @jamie-m
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 5,069
    Rob G. wrote:

    There is no freehold in the ACT.

    Don't even bother to ask why … the whole state is another unhappy political compromise that reads better than a Monty Python script.

    Cheers,

    Rob

    Haha, I take it you’re not from around these parts Rob. Life’s good in Canberra.

    Cheers

    Jamie

    Jamie Moore | Pass Go Home Loans Pty Ltd
    http://www.passgo.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Mortgage Broker assisting clients Australia wide Email: [email protected]

    Profile photo of amsaini15amsaini15
    Participant
    @amsaini15
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 64

    Can somebody please confirm if Interest on loan taken to pay for stamp duty is tax deductible or not.
    E.g. –  I did a 45K topup on my PPOR to pay 10% deposit (32K) for Ip purchase + Approx 10K stamp duty + other purchasing costs. Can I count Interest charged on this loan portion for negative gearing purpose? Thanks

    Profile photo of DAMPropertyDAMProperty
    Participant
    @damproperty
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 44

    Did you set up the $45k as a separate loan on your PPOR?

    DAMProperty | DAM Accounting Services
    https://www.damaccountingservices.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    And did you take the $45k directly from the home loan to the OSR, or did you move the money to a savings/cheque account first?

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of amsaini15amsaini15
    Participant
    @amsaini15
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 64

    Here is the Sequence of Events (Purchase Price $320K)
    15/06/10 -Paid $800 (.25% of Purchase Price)
    25/06/10 -Paid $15200 (To make intial 5% deposit) from redraw of existing PPOR loan. (Variation completed 4 days late on 29/06)
    29/06/10 – Variation settled with existing lender – New loan account with the increase setted up
    29/07/10 – Transferred remaining 10% ($16000) + Stamp duty $9910 into Savings Account to make cheque and pay for the amount at Settlement

    DAMProperty – Seperate $45K loan was setted up (29/06)

    Terryw
    – Moved to Savings Account first. As you know Solicitor would not tell me cheque amount no earlier than the settlement day. And my lender would not deliver Cheque in my hands same day (being online lender)

    Please advise if $15,200 (intial) + ($16000) + $9910(Stamp Duty) are deductible for negative gearing purpose. I can prove that I kept pushing my lender to settle varition before 5% deposit payment date.

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    Did the savings account have an other funds in it before the borrowed money was transferred into it?

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of amsaini15amsaini15
    Participant
    @amsaini15
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 64

    Terry, Yep Saving Account did had around $1K at that time being my main transactional account as well.

    Is there any Ray of Hope for me based on TR 2000/2 (I dont understand them fully):

    First Exception – Borrowed money recouped and repaid

    17. Where money borrowed and applied to a particular use (the 'relevant use') is recouped in whole or in part, in the sense that the amount or some part of it is recovered ( e.g., on the sale of an asset purchased with borrowed funds) that part of the outstanding balance of the mixed purpose line of credit debt which had been applied to the relevant use can no longer be regarded as continuing to be applied to that use. Where borrowed funds recouped are repaid to the mixed purpose sub-account in reduction of the outstanding balance, those funds have ceased to be outstanding funds used for any purpose. The effect of the repayment of the recouped funds to the mixed purpose sub-account is to reduce only that part of the outstanding line of credit debt applied to the previous use of those funds. The use of the balance of borrowed funds still outstanding is unaffected by the recoupment and repayment in these circumstances unless the amount of the sale proceeds paid into the mixed purpose sub-account exceeds the amount drawn down and applied to the relevant use (the 'relevant debt portion'). This would occur, for example, where the asset is sold at a profit and part or all of the recouped borrowed funds and profit are paid into the mixed purpose sub-account. To the extent that the payment exceeds the relevant debt portion, such excess amount (i.e., the profit component) will be taken to have reduced prorata the amounts borrowed and applied to uses other than the relevant use.

    Second Exception – Refinancing mixed purpose debt

    18. A taxpayer may choose to refinance a debt outstanding on a mixed purpose sub-account by borrowing an equivalent amount under two separate accounts or sub-accounts. If the sums borrowed under those two separate accounts are equivalent to the respective income producing and non-income producing parts of the existing outstanding debt, we accept that interest accrued on the debt incurred in refinancing the income producing portion of the mixed purpose debt will be deductible.

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    Technically I don't think the interest would be deductible.

    You have borrowed money and invested them into a savings account. This is not a commercial transaction and you couldn't justify the deduction of interest here.

    Once in the savings account the funds are savings, no longer borrowed.

    You could trace the funds to the savings account and then to the item for which they were used. But you have mixed it with other cash as well (see Domjan's case re this). So even if you could argue this, you would have to apportion the interest. The cash in the savings account was low so it would be a small portion of the account that was for private use.

    However, having written all this, I had a friend who did and does the same thing. He was audited by the ATO and they didn't even pick it up or mention it.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of amsaini15amsaini15
    Participant
    @amsaini15
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 64

    Terry, Thanks. Cant't I argue that there was no way I could produce Cheque from my lender on short notice and transfer into Saving account was only a medium (Which Is confirmed by their short stay parking into my Savings Account)..
    ..
    Do you know what are the penalties if ATO find this arrangement as incorrectly being claimed as deduction?

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    Excuses don't matter. But may lessen any penalties.

    If you get your tax wrong you will have to pay any tax owning plus a penalty. Penalty will vary depending on how serious it is and your actions.

    In this case you interest on $45,000 is approx $3,000 and it you are paying around 30% tax the tax saved would be about $900.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of DAMPropertyDAMProperty
    Participant
    @damproperty
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 44

    I'm a bit late in replying and can see that Terryw has answered your question. 

    DAMProperty | DAM Accounting Services
    https://www.damaccountingservices.com.au

Viewing 19 posts - 1 through 19 (of 19 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic. If you don't have an account, you can register here.