All Topics / General Property / Rent vs Buy a home

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  • Profile photo of Joel0430Joel0430
    Member
    @joel0430
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 14

    Hi all,

    I’m new to this site and property in general so I have limited practical experience. I’m most of the way through 0 to 130 properties and an interesting concept came to mind that I have never thought of before:

    In a market where most properties would be negatively geared, is it better to rent than buy? I haven’t done the arithmetic but my logic is this… Negative gearing means that rent doesn’t cover costs. So I would be better off renting a place and saving (or investing elsewhere) the difference between the rent and what I would be paying in loan repayments if I bought the same property. Right?

    This is particularly interesting for me because I am currently looking to by my first home, but if its better to rent then ill have to change my game plan. Am I on the right track?

    The next step for me would be to figure out how this applies to an apartment in Sydney’s inner west (any specific advise on this market would also be much appreciated)

    Cheers,
    Joel

    Profile photo of SmartGenYSmartGenY
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    @smartgeny
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 15

    Good to see you are thinking and are definitely on the right track. What you have to do now is a bit of research on house price movements and then speculate.

    If you decide the prices will go up in comparison to your alternative investment then you would buy.
    If you decide the prices will go side ways in and your other investment will go up, then you wouldn’t buy.
    If you decide the prices will go down then you wouldn’t buy.

    Check out MattNZ, Unmester and to a lesser extent my on posts for reasons on not to buy.
    Check out ALF1 and basically the rest of the forum for reasons to buy.

    Have fun speculating :) let us know what you decide.

    Profile photo of angelinsydneyangelinsydney
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    @angelinsydney
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 270

    Hi smartgeny,

    You have the correct premise.   A smart lady once asked me a rhetorical question, "How many negatively geared properties can you afford to hold?"  The answer, she said, is "None."

    I totally agree.

    I'll add another, if the mortgage repayment is exactly or near what you'd have to pay in rent anyway, buy!

    There's no point paying $500 pw rent on someone else's property if it cost the same to "rent" it from yourself.

    Congratulations, you're on your way.

    Take care.

    Angel

    Profile photo of streamlineinvestingstreamlineinvesting
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    @streamlineinvesting
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 171

    There are a lot of benefits for both renting and buying, also a lot of disadvantages, many of them are not always financial. Things like in your own home you can just about whatever you please regarding decorating and internal design, but with renting you have the flexibility to change where you are living relatively easily. And as the rent is generally lower than mortgage repayments, you can find yourself living in a much more expensive place you may be able to afford.

    As for financial reasons, I made a spreadsheet when I was first looking at buying a house to see if it was better for me to continue to rent and save more money to create a larger deposit, or if it was better to get in now with the deposit I had and start investing in a property right away. I can send you the spreadsheet if you want, feel free to drop an email and you can have a look at it and make up your own mind. In the end I chose to buy a place, I think it was actually even for me from a financial point of view, but there were other reasons which made me want to buy a place.

    Profile photo of v8ghiav8ghia
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    @v8ghia
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 871

    HI Joel,

    I'm right with streamline. If you for example wanted to move location at the drop of a hat, don't have kids, and have no interest in gardening, making a house a home, and adding your personal touch to where you live without having to ask renting makes good sense often form a short term monetary point of view.
    But what $ value is 'emotional' side of property ownership? If not, by all means, it is nearly always cheaper to rent – guaranteed.
    I have done both, and much prefer home ownership (in conjunction with the bank!!!!)
    The other thought is that if/when you sell down the track, any capital gain you make is tax free on your own home.
    Age & family status is likely also a factor in the decision and or your needs

    Pros & Cons….no right or wrong though. WHat would you do with the money you save if you rent?

    All the best with what you decide

    Profile photo of Jamie MooreJamie Moore
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    @jamie-m
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 5,069

    I have a preference of owning over renting. With owning – there’s the non-financial benefits of stability and freedom (you don’t need to worry about the landlord selling up or moving in and you can decorate the place however you please).

    Also, as touched on above – it’s an asset that doesn’t trigger CGT once sold. It should also (hopefully) go up in value during the time you’ve owned it (whilst your landlord will be the one benefiting from any capital gains associated with the house you’re renting).

    Cheers

    Jamie

    Jamie Moore | Pass Go Home Loans Pty Ltd
    http://www.passgo.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Mortgage Broker assisting clients Australia wide Email: [email protected]

    Profile photo of Joel0430Joel0430
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    @joel0430
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 14

    Thanks for the comments everyone.

    My original post was made with the idea fresh in my mind! “oh my god its better to rent for sure, no way im going to buy!”.

    But you are right there are a lot of other up sides to owning. Things that, when I actually think about it, I really do want. Such as freedom to make the place my own.

    What would I do with the extra money i’d save by renting? Very good question. In the short/medium term it would probably just go into the bank until i had enough to do anything else with. What you everyone else do with their saving until a point where you had enough to invest in property?

    Profile photo of Jamie MooreJamie Moore
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    @jamie-m
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 5,069

    Hi Joel

    That’s the great thing about the forum – you’ll often receive a range of responses from those with varying opinions and experiences. At the end of the day though – the decision is yours.

    Best of luck with whichever you choose.

    Cheers

    Jamie

    Jamie Moore | Pass Go Home Loans Pty Ltd
    http://www.passgo.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Mortgage Broker assisting clients Australia wide Email: [email protected]

    Profile photo of fWordfWord
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    @fword
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 471
    SmartGenY wrote:
    Check out MattNZ, Unmester and to a lesser extent my on posts for reasons on not to buy. Check out ALF1 and basically the rest of the forum for reasons to buy. Have fun speculating :)

    Well, that pretty much sums it up.

    Profile photo of Dan42Dan42
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    @dan42
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 619

    I'm a bit late, but I agree with Jamie. There are a lot of non-financial reasons to own, and the peace of mind that ownership brings is priceless to me.

    The other thing I hear a lot is, 'I'll rent and invest the difference'. I'm not sure how many people ACTUALLY do this, but you need to have the discipline to put away the extra funds into another investment.

    Profile photo of ummesterummester
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    @ummester
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 510
    Joel0430 wrote:
    What you everyone else do with their saving until a point where you had enough to invest in property?

    Short the $AU. Buy gold. Look at shares (requires research and risk to profit).

    Savings are safe – so long as you are disciplined enough to grow them, as others mention.

    I'm pumping most of mine into a FHSA (until it reaches the 85k maximum) but this means that, so long as I don't flee the country, I have to buy a house with it eventually. I doubt average homes are going to increase by more than 85k in the next 3 tax returns, so I feel it's a safer bet – others may disagree.

    Profile photo of SmartGenYSmartGenY
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    @smartgeny
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 15

    If I had kids and was looking to provide them some stability I would be looking for a house to buy close to good schools and public transport.

    But at the moment I am under30 and looking to travel via working and volunteering as much as possible, and will continue to do this while I can still get temporary work visas with ease. That’s why I like investments that don’t require constant servicing plus my tax isn’t too suffocating.

    I invest most of the difference of renting and a mortgage, not all because whilst I value investing and hard work, I also value my youth and for the time being am enjoying the life of Dorian Gray.

    Profile photo of ummesterummester
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    @ummester
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 510
    SmartGenY wrote:
    If I had kids and was looking to provide them some stability I would be looking for a house to buy close to good schools and public transport. But at the moment I am under30 and looking to travel via working and volunteering as much as possible, and will continue to do this while I can still get temporary work visas with ease. That's why I like investments that don't require constant servicing plus my tax isn't too suffocating. I invest most of the difference of renting and a mortgage, not all because whilst I value investing and hard work, I also value my youth and for the time being am enjoying the life of Dorian Gray.

    In the end, the quality of the life you get to live will be the only investment that matters.

    I travelled a lot before I had kids and don't regret it for a moment – I got to see things most others dont and had experiences that amount to quality for me.

    I think that the recent preoccupation with sub 30s to buy a house is due to the bubble and ear bashing of PI parents. If prices had been rising comparitive to wages for the last 15 years, then sub 30s would have been less inspired to get on board and more insprired to live their lives. Like you mention, worrying about buying a house makes more sense to those who are committed to children or a partner and are ready to lay down plans for the future. Enjoy your youth, you only get one shot at it:)

    Profile photo of KimberlyKimberly
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    @kimberly
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 44

    Well I'm a bit of a novice myself, having only bought my own home (and no current investment properties).

    I bought my home pre-Steve McKnight books and properly educating myself.

    Whilst I have no regrets in buying my own home (yes, there is an emotional sentiment, and it's about making a house a home), something I would do differently is perhaps bought a house that was not as "nice and perfect" (freshly painted walls, downlight, newly rennovated kitchen etc.) and therefore it would've been cheaper for me to own my own home and I could've had more money earlier for investing.
    Also I would've bought my first home with a view towards it being a future investment property.

    The home I have bought we paid an extra premium for b/c it has a lot of land and the area is a "family" area……
    but had I had more of an investment orientated focus…..I would've bought a place to live in but also with a view towards renting it out in the future as I progress on.

    Hope this makes sense Joel.

    Profile photo of Joel0430Joel0430
    Member
    @joel0430
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 14

    Thanks for your comments Kimberly, its good to hear from someone in the position I will be in very shortly. I will keep it in mind, especially the tip not to pay a premium for a “nice” place when I can just add value my self.

    To be specific I’ve got $100k in cash which I was going to use for a deposit on a $400ish apartment in Sydney’s inner west. I am at a point in my life where i do want to own a place, but at the same time i am open to the option of renting or even putting down a slightly lower deposit on a cheaper place in order to save some cash for investing. any tips anyone?

    Profile photo of ksherwellksherwell
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    @ksherwell
    Join Date: 2007
    Post Count: 125

    Consider your budget, the area which you are purchasing (can you live there for 3  to 5 years). Is your job stable?

    Profile photo of TalismansTalismans
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    @talismans
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 23

    I'm a bit crazy actually and my risk acceptance level is high.

    (Assume that I have already got a PPOR somewhere in the 6 years CGT exemption period)

    If I have 150k for a house deposit, I would get a positive cash flow property in an established mining town which has potential capital growth such as Port Hedland, Karratha , Dysart or Moranbah. Then I will use this $25k-$35k cash flow to fund the rents.

    But once you think about the all the benefits of owning a house (i.e. includes all the non-monetary benefits), then buying a house isn't an investment decision anymore. Hence, it can not be justified by returns or potential capital gain etc. You buy it simply because you like it and you want it. And that's what money is for isn't it?

    Profile photo of MikeLewisMikeLewis
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    @mikelewis
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 19

    Nice information. Potential buyers bought into all sorts of rent vs. buy myths to justify buying houses that they could not afford during the boom. Now that the U.S. housing market is in shambles, people are starting to realize that renting may not be a dirty word after all. Contrary to popular belief, buyers do not get back the mortgage interest they paid throughout the year at tax time. I think that the recent preoccupation with sub 30s to buy a house is due to the bubble and ear bashing of PI parents. In the end I chose to buy a place, I think it was actually even for me from a financial point of view, but there were other reasons which made me want to buy a place. Thanks for sharing..

    Profile photo of Invest_wiselyInvest_wisely
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    @invest_wisely
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 1

    Dear all,

    It's so kind of you all to share your knowledge.

    My thoughts- I think rent paid is dead money, because whatever rent you pay you don't have any benefit in future, all the benefits such as Capital gain, Income Tax benefit, peace of mind & security goes to the owner not to the tennant. So highly recommend buying a home if you can afford to pay deposit & have stable job to pay mortgage.

    Simple rule: Money makes money
     
    Cheers!!

    Profile photo of Andrew Lee LawyersAndrew Lee Lawyers
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    @andrew-lee-lawyers
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 37

    AGe old question. I didn't buy my first property until quite recently. I travelled a bit, and enjoyed it.
    Really it is what your circumstances are at the moment. I always admired some youngish early 20s person that had their own property, but later realised a lot of the times it was mum and dad looking for a way to invest and make the most of the 1st home owners grant, hence they would lend the deposit to their son/ daughter and use that to buy the property. Nothing wrong with that, but some of us weren't quite as fortunate.
    Anyway, 100k in savings is a good sum, and good on ya. gotta remember that a 300k loan is over 2k a month, so will this affect your current lifestyle? If so, dont rush in.

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