All Topics / Legal & Accounting / Trust V Company

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  • Profile photo of Naremburn123Naremburn123
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    @naremburn123
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 61

    Hi guys,

    I own a few properties in my own name. I'm now looking to start some small developments with the aim being to keep at least one site at the end with no or minimul debt.

    Would I better off to buy the land etc under a company or trust structure. It's my understanding (which is very basic) that a company pays a flat rate of 30% tax. while a trust pays no tax. But once the company pays that 30% tax, do I as an individual pay any further tax on the money that is left? How Do I actually get access to that money for discretionary spending? Or does it stay in the company?
     
    I understand with a trust, the money must be dispersed to beneficiaries, who pay income tax on that income just like they would from a job.  

    So is there any benefit of a trust vs company structure depending on the nature of the deals? ie – Short term renovations vs developments where one site will held debt free to produce rental income long term?

    As I said my understanding is basic, and I'm just going off my own assumptions so I'm happy to be corrected by those with more knowledge.

    Thanks in advance.

    Naremburn123

    Profile photo of Mr5o1Mr5o1
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    @mr5o1
    Join Date: 2010
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    The primary benefit of a company is limited liability (if anything goes wrong, litigators can not pursue you personally). And the primary benefit of the trust is the ability to disperse income to a range of beneficiaries (ie: children). The two can operate in tandem, with a company as trustee for a trust.

    The company itself pays a flat rate of tax @ 30%, but any income you 'draw out' (via dividends, or salary) will be taxed at marginal rates.

    eg: the company makes $50k (profit before salaries) for 2 years, each year you draw a salary as director of $30k, and in the second year take a $40k dividend. In the first year, the companies profit is $20k, so it pays $6k in tax. Your personal income (if you have none from other sources) is $30k, so at marginal rates thats $2550. In the following year, on the company's $20k profit it will pay another 6k in tax, and then distribute you a dividend of $40k, of course, there's actually only $28k to distribute, so you'll get a franked dividend of $28k + franking credits of $12k = $40k. so your salary + dividend = taxable income of $70k. The tax payable on that at marginal rates is $15,600 but you've got $12k in credits, so the bill would only be $3600.

    So in the second year, between yourself and the company you pay exactly the same amount of tax, as you would if the $70k was just personal income. The only advantage tax-wise is that you can use the company as a 'buffer' that is, only distribute the income to yourself in years when your in a 30% tax bracket.

    There are considerable disadvantages to these structures which you need to be wary of. A company does not have access to the 50% discount for CGT. (A trust does) And neither entity can distribute a loss – that is, you wont be able to claim any losses against your other personal income.

    Profile photo of Naremburn123Naremburn123
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    @naremburn123
    Join Date: 2008
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    Thanks MR501,

    I really appreciate you taking the time to write back.

    Cheers

    Profile photo of Scott No MatesScott No Mates
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    @scott-no-mates
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 3,856

    Check out one of my recent blogs – Invest-for-Success

    I am not an accountant but the information has come from a recent edition of National Institute of Accountants Magazine and will give you a little more of a heads up about it. It also references the article so you could contact the NIA or the Author.

    Profile photo of Mick CMick C
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    @shape
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 1,099

    Excellent post MR501!! Spot on!

    Naremburn123 – If your solo purpose is to renovated and sell within a short period of time …if that time frame is less then 12 month; financially speaking depending on which tax bracket your on; a trust structure can be more beneficially because of the 50% reduction in CGT ( after 12month)

    Also company is a lot more complex and slightly expensive to run annually. Note- your details is available to the public as it’s regulated by ASIC. A trust does not have this problem…it’s private.

    But at the end of the day you will still need to speak to your accountant; and they will be able to advise you on a personal level.

    Regards
    Michael

    Mick C | Shape Home Loans
    http://www.shapehomeloans.com.au/
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Same Banks. Better Rates. Served With a Passion.

    Profile photo of Mick CMick C
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    @shape
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    Note: A discretionary trust is far more superior then a unit trust in regards to tax minimisationand capital gain tax- as it provides better control and flexibility..

    End of the day you can really make a company ABC pty ltd..and it’s owned by a trust ABC….
    Our firm dealt with a case where the couple had a company that was owned by other company..and that 2nd company was owned by a trust who it self was a beneficiary of a different trust 0.o

    Cheers
    Michael

    Mick C | Shape Home Loans
    http://www.shapehomeloans.com.au/
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Same Banks. Better Rates. Served With a Passion.

    Profile photo of NHGNHG
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    @nhg
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 198

    Hey All,
    Hope you are well!

    In a somewhat related note.

    I recently had a conversation with my parents who are concerned purchasing more property will affect their pension. (Pension payments are greater than income of another rental property, and having more rental properties will allegedly reduce the pension they receive).

    As not investing in general sounds like a wasted opportunity, is there a way a trust/company would allow them to continue investing without affecting their pensions?

    Would anybody be able to recommend a good accountant in Sydney who specialises in property (trusts/companies)?

    Regards

    NHG.

    Profile photo of Naremburn123Naremburn123
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    @naremburn123
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 61

    Thanks a lot guys!

    That was very helpful.

    One last question to clarify trusts.

    Say I'm using a family trust. The trust buys a property, I develop it and make $100,000 profit. Does this profit sit in the trust? Untaxed? Until it is dispersed? and then it's taxed at marginal rates?

    So In theory you could do many deals and leave the profit in the trust and then use it to buy your family home, and you wouldn't pay tax on the profit that was held in the trust?

    Cheers

    Naremburn123.

    Profile photo of Scott No MatesScott No Mates
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    @scott-no-mates
    Join Date: 2005
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    As far as I know, the trust does not pay tax but must distribute the income to the beneficiaries who pay tax. The trust can’t sit on the profits.

    Profile photo of Mr5o1Mr5o1
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    @mr5o1
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 107

    I agree with scott..

    remember that cash doesn't need to be distributed but profit does, so if the trust makes a profit of $100k, the cash it's earned can sit in the trust's bank account, but that $100k profit is distributed in the tax form to the beneficiaries.

    Profile photo of Naremburn123Naremburn123
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    @naremburn123
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 61

    Ok great. Thanks guys!

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
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    There are also considerable asset protection advantages of using a discretionary trust.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

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