All Topics / Help Needed! / What would you do?

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  • Profile photo of stevo81stevo81
    Member
    @stevo81
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 16

    I am currently looking at buying my first property, my intention is to TREAT my first PPOR as an investment.

    I am 29 and have saved ~80K + 7K FHBG. Our comined income is ~140k, and we have no kids. I am happy to continue saving at the moment, as i can pocket around 2k a month in net savings.

    I am very cautious about the housing bubble, and the economy in general. We hear that property doubles every 10yrs. This isnt the case in the US or Euro. Regardless, i am a big believer in timing, and feel some great opportunities will present themselves IF the market crashes.

    I know i cant hold off forever. My options are to either buy a house in the Hills district (~25km from city) for ~530k or a unit within 10km from sydney for ~450. I feel i can generate far more equity a lot quicker with the unit over the house. Athough, i hear the saying land appreciates and buildings depreciate as a factor i need to consider.

    With Sydneys population growing i feel as an investment, being closer to the city would have more of an advantage. Do property investers have a general rule of thumb where they only use a certain % of the net income to put against a mortageg (say 25%). I've always been curious on what formulas of budgeting rules they comply with. I see so many people maxing out their borrowing power and becoming a debt mule their entire life. I see that if i buy something a lot cheaper than i can afford, the quicker i can build up my porfolio and generate higher compound growth, which is what im after.

    I can generate 90-100k in equity within 2-3 yrs with the unit + capital growth which i see as stagnating, compared to ~40K with the house. This i feel is limiting my opportunity with the house?

    I was also hoping that if i bought a unit and built up the equity, i could keep the unit as an investment and use the equity for a house that we desire to live in a few yrs down the track.  I saw a broker and he said that this cant be done? there is some law stopping investors to use their exsisting PPOR and turning into an investment property, apparently you cant claim all the tax benefits, which i found strange. I am not sure if i have explained this scenario correctly but if someone understands what im trying to say, some feeback would be great.

    Whats the general consenus with property investors and our market? are most people optimistic with capital growth over the next 2-3 yrs. I dont believe there is much opportunity over the next couple of yrs. I feel like I would be buying at the peak of a cycle, which is what im worried about.

    I have painted a picture of how im thinking. If you have taken the time to read my question and willing to share some feedback and opinions, i would be most grateful

    Cheers,

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    Dont take tax advice from a broker! Lucky you know he is wrong, but I wonder how many other people have been scared off by him!!

    I feel the same about the market. It seems overheated – but Sydney will always be growing in poplulation over the short term at least.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of number 8number 8
    Participant
    @number-8
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 333

    Question,

    You will never be able to predict the future- I hear you say correct!

    So if you buy a property today whereby you are not spending beyond your means (i.e. if property crashes you will still be in a position to afford another). Then you do not have to lose sleep over the peak or bottom of the market. Another question, what is the market you are referring? Do you have 8 years or a life time. If the later is your response than I am happy to go on record stating you will not be buying at the bottom of the property market for your life. Property is a long term vehicle that has some good and bad periods. The winners will prepare for a downturn and ride out the bad periods….This is where you want to be!

    If the market happens to trend forward, even with inflation, can you keep up the pace? e.g. If you have a portfolio over $3M and your property trends with inflation (you return $90k p.a. @3%). Can you save this much after tax? Remember this figured will compound and the future growth will be larger (not to mention rent).

    I do not suggest making a bad decision for the sake of investing, but I do not encourage sitting on the sideline. I also live in the Hills and I am happy to discuss investing further, at your discretion.

    http://www.birchcorp.com

    Profile photo of LHLH
    Participant
    @lh
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 97

    You can definitely turn your PPOR into an IP, perhaps you need a new broker!

    I like a house over a unit (as long as you are not too far from CBD) as the land content is higher. Not sure why you think you'd get a higher capital gain from the unit…

    Profile photo of stevo81stevo81
    Member
    @stevo81
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 16

    What would you define as being far from the cbd? I see potential on a unit as I think they will hold there value better than a house over the next 2 years. I can also create more equity this way. I would much prefer a house but am purely trying to capitalise on my equity in the shortterm. My goal is to get the most I can within a 3 yr period. I feel there is a greater level of risk with expectations Around capital growth. In 3 yrs I would plan to have the unit positively geared and use equity to purchase new ppor and still keep the original ppor but have it now listed as an investment.

    Profile photo of LHLH
    Participant
    @lh
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 97

    In Melbourne I'd say 2-10km (I say 2km as I don't go into high density in the CBD) – and I do have a bias here as that's where I;m based…
    Sydney a little further at 2-15km and CBD if water-side (high density is better if you have views). Apartments are generally ok as long as your views can't be built around or impeded. There is also a little more diversity within those inner city areas, but further than 15km might see lower capital growth. Depending on your budget and affordability, you might like to look at the inner north-west and even an apartment as long as you keep to less than 15 in the block (and get some land content).
    No doubt there will be contrasting opinions and if you can find that apartment that can get you a better result, then go for it!

    Profile photo of CatalystCatalyst
    Participant
    @catalyst
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 1,404

    Maybe your broker was assuming (by increasing equity)  that you meant you would pay down the loan. If you did that THEN withdrew that money for a PPOR THEN you certainly would NOT be able to claim tax benefits.

    If the money was placed in an offset account then withdrawn, that's another matter.

    Get it right with this or you can lose thousands.

    Sounds like you are not quite ready (waiting for the RIGHT time). There are bargains in ANY market. I'm buying in Sydney and will again. Not as many bargains as in 2008 but they are still there.

    Profile photo of Jamie MooreJamie Moore
    Participant
    @jamie-m
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 5,069
    LH wrote:
    perhaps you need a new broker!

    Agreed. It's advice like this that can send people down the wrong path. Time to get a knowledgable IP savvy broker.

    Jamie

    Jamie Moore | Pass Go Home Loans Pty Ltd
    http://www.passgo.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Mortgage Broker assisting clients Australia wide Email: [email protected]

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