All Topics / Help Needed! / pay off or interest only????

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  • Profile photo of eilatan28eilatan28
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    @eilatan28
    Join Date: 2010
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    hi all, what a great forum i have stumbled across. so glad to have found it!!

    We have recently moved out of our family home which we are now renting out and are currently renting ourselves in another area, we had the financial plan to put all our extra funds into our mortgage, and try to pay it off or get close to paying off, before selling it within the 6 year time frame of not having to pay capital gains tax on a PPOR. However we were advised by our accountant that this would not be the best option for us as we would not be getting the maximum tax benefits (less interest being charged) She advised us to change mortgage to interest only and open a high interest account to deposit extra funds into. (with the view to purchase another investment property soon using equity in our family home as a deposit )

    Im very new to this and trying to do lots of learning before venturing further – but im confused, would it not be wise to aim to pay off an investment property ( so then all rent received is profit) (Knowing i would still have to pay tax on this) rather than just having it an an interest only loan and relying on CG??? does this all just depend on which investment strategy one chooses to follow?

    if we chose to purchase another IP, and worked to pay one of them off, would the tax benefits of having one property interest only still be maximised if we were making large principle payments on the second??  i know this might be hard to answer without facts and figures, but anyones comments/ suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!!    thanks

    Profile photo of v8ghiav8ghia
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    @v8ghia
    Join Date: 2005
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    Hi eilatan28 – and welcome to the forum.

    May I start by saying this is why accountants worry me (a lot of them) SO many have so little an idea on how to grasp lending and loan basics, and of course their info gets acted on, and you/we pay for the advice!

    Without knowing your full circumstances, and to keep it simple, here you go.
    Firstly, if it IS definitely your goal to sell (and enjoy that lovely capital gain) then go for it. Unless you can use equity (which you have to borrow against and pay interest on anyway) there is no other way to lock in profit (tax free profit in this case) on property other than doing just that – selling it.

    Secondly, if you were keen to hang onto it and or switch your loan to an interest only product as you mentioned, you would make sure the loan had an offset savings account with it – meaning you offset the interest charged on the balance of your home loan, with the balance in your savings account – effectively the net effect of this is like getting whatever interest rate your mortgage is at, from your savings. It is tax free, because no interest is actually paid to you by the bank, rather it is not charged on your homeloan.   If you were to put the savings into a high interest account as you were advised, you will get maybe 5-6 % if you hunt around on an on line style account, and then be taxed on that.

    Hope that general information gives a simple explanation, and helps.

    Cheers

    Profile photo of eilatan28eilatan28
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    @eilatan28
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 44

    thanks v8ghia,

    loan does already have an offset account but accountant thinks i should drop it ( they say that in reducing the amount of interest we get charged monthly it reduces our tax deductible expenses) i read that as we would expect a bigger tax return if we dropped the offset, but not sure i agree with this move. we are not in it for the once a year return – we are thinking and planning for long term finanlcial freedom.

    We have been very happy with our accountant in the past,( who is also a mortgage broker and finance consultant) just not sure if we share the same opinion on this one though.

    Profile photo of Richard TaylorRichard Taylor
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    @qlds007
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    Surely tell me this is not the reason he has suggested you remove the offset account it reduces our tax deductible expenses.

    If so i think i would be finding myself a new Accountant, Mortgage Broker & Finance Consultant and every other hat he wears.

    Next thing he will be suggesting you should look for properties that are negatively geared so you can get some Tax benefit on your loss.

    Richard Taylor | Australia's leading private lender

    Profile photo of v8ghiav8ghia
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    @v8ghia
    Join Date: 2005
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    I think you're worth more than your accountant! I was going to express my surprise at the ill-logic but RIchard has beaten me to it. Tax deductions are great – IF you need them. Can't see why you would want to deliberately give up your hard earned money in order to claim 1/3 of it back as a 'tax deduction'. Phew!

    I'm going to have to go and make another gin & tonic…..
    Cheers

    Profile photo of Graeme FreerGraeme Freer
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    @freerenterprise
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 47

    The beauty of an offset account is that you can minimise the interest payment without reducing the principal. It doesn't make sense to reduce the principal (and associated deductible interest costs) on an investment property . Better to withdraw funds from the offset account for non-deductible purchases, such as deposit on a home.
    Graeme Freer
    Freer Property and Finance

    Graeme Freer | Freer Property and Finance
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    Profile photo of Luke TaylorLuke Taylor
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    @world-changer
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    Hey eiliatan,

    I would say if you have the discipline to use the money for investing purposes only,
    change to interest only loan.
    Unfortunately in the real world many people cant hold back from spending the extra money.
    For this reason sometimes it is wise for people to pay down their loans with some of the money
     aswell as saving some too in an offset acct  for further investments.
    Everybody is dfferent but its not always the wisest "business/financial"  decision that is the best way to go.
    food for thought !

    Luke Taylor | Hope Property Investing
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    Property Support,Strategist and Buyers Agent

    Profile photo of eilatan28eilatan28
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    @eilatan28
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    so let me get this straight – (sorry im still new to this!)
    if loan is i/o my repayments would stay the same ($1840/month) but the amount of interest charged monthly would slowly decrease over time and with the more i had in my offset account. yeah? so although not paying the loan 'off' , my equity in the place would still increase provided market value went up? yeah??

    graeme – thanks for your reply. does it still make sense NOT to pay off the principle if we plan to sell in 6 years time and not have to pay CGT?? wouldnt we make a bigger profit in 6 years time if the total amount we owed on it then was less?? or are we better off servicing another property with our extra cash flow?? thanks

    Profile photo of Jamie MooreJamie Moore
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    eilatan28 wrote:
    so let me get this straight – (sorry im still new to this!)
    if loan is i/o my repayments would stay the same ($1840/month) but the amount of interest charged monthly would slowly decrease over time and with the more i had in my offset account. yeah?

    yes

    so although not paying the loan 'off' , my equity in the place would still increase provided market value went up? yeah??

    yes (if value continues to rise).

    Jamie Moore | Pass Go Home Loans Pty Ltd
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    Mortgage Broker assisting clients Australia wide Email: [email protected]

    Profile photo of Jacqui MiddletonJacqui Middleton
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    Join Date: 2009
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    Why would you pay it off?  Just leave the money in the offset.  You might change your might about your strategy between now and then.  If the money is in the offset, the savings on interest is the same as if you'd paid it off anyway.

    Wow your accountant should be fired.  If you are making a loss, it is a LOSS.  The tax department will not give you a full refund on your loss either.  Just a portion of it.  Why would you deliberately make a loss?

    Jacqui Middleton | Middleton Buyers Advocates
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    VIC Buyers' Agents for investors, home buyers & SMSFs.

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Don't forget loans have no bearing on CGT.

    Hi Graeme – I think I know you from many years ago.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of Greg ReidGreg Reid
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    @greg-reid
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 91

    Eilatan,
    I am not going to defend accountants either but her advice makes little sense, in not paying down debt because it reduces the tax deduction but then investing surplus funds in an interest bearing account? Why not run the numbers and see which gives a better return to you.

    Ultimately wealth is about assets less debts, so increase one while decreasing the other is what the end goal is about. The timing on which you do will depend on your end goals and your timetable. In concept I don't have a problem with reducing debt, however if you plan to build a multiple property portfolio, you need to concentrate on increasing your asset base and you need to have available cash flow and deposit to be able to borrow again. When you have built your portfolio and are comfortable, then concentrate on reducing debt.

    You could use an offset account, even if it is against an investment loan, but if you have the borrowing capacity and wanted to purchase another IP, I would get the initial IP revalued and refinanced to set up a LOC and use that to fund the deposit for the second IP. Continue to channel surplus funds into your offset which is turn can be used effectively for purchases of a private nature.

    In terms of CGT, as Terryw said, it has nothing to do with the loans associated to a property. It is simply the net selling costs less the costs to acquire. That is the profit. The surplus funds available is the net sales price less the loans outstanding. Two different concepts.
    Good luck
    Greg

    Profile photo of Graeme FreerGraeme Freer
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    @freerenterprise
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    Eilatan,
    I agree with Greg that your accountant's advice makes little sense ( not paying down debt because it reduces the tax deduction) Your profit will be calculated by proceeds of asset sale less debts (and CGT).

    CGT, as Terryw and Greg both point out,  is the net selling costs less the costs to acquire (nothing to do with loan).

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    Graeme Freer | Freer Property and Finance
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