All Topics / Legal & Accounting / Turning my family home into an investment property

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  • Profile photo of SamsonsSamsons
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    @samsons
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 4

    Hi all,

    I am just wanting some advice. I live in a house worth approx $470K and the balance of my loan is around 60K. Last year I bought an investment property for 600K. I have decided to move into my investment property as it is better for the family. How can I change my current family home into being my investment property? How can I maximise my tax returns? One accountant is telling me I can change my equity from one to the other and another accountant says it can't be done. I rang the bank and they say is it very common.

    Has anyone in the forum done it this way? What do you suggest?

    Thank you.
    Sam

    Profile photo of sonyasalsonyasal
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    @sonyasal
    Join Date: 2008
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    From my understanding, you will only be able to claim the outstanding 60k loan not the loan amount from the IP. This loan cannot be transferred to your PPoR. I am sure Richard will be able to answer this question much better than me

    Sonya

    Profile photo of Mr5o1Mr5o1
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    Hi Samsons,

    Whilst you can transfer the security for the loans from one property to the other (which is what the bank is talking about), you can not change the principal purpose of the loans, which effects tax deductibility.

    To put it another way, if you move into your investment property, then the funds you borrowed to purchase that property will become personal, and the interest you pay on those funds will not be tax deductible, you can not change the purpose for which you originally borrowed the money.

    This page at the ATO explains this situation somewhat:
    http://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/content.asp?doc=/content/00113233.htm
    (check out the zac and lucy example)

    Whilst its not an elegant solution, and possibly more effort than its worth.. you could sell the 470k property, pay out the $60k owing, purchase another rental/investment property at an LVR of 80% or 90%, and use the remainder of the proceeds of sale to reduce the current loan on the investment property you moved into. This would allow you to claim the majority of the interest your paying against your new rental property.

    Hope this helps!

    Profile photo of SamsonsSamsons
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    @samsons
    Join Date: 2010
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    Hi Everyone,

    It makes sense now. Thank you for all your comments.

    Samsons

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
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    Sam

    You can gradually improve your tax position by borrowing to pay your investment loan interest. This will help build deductions while paying off your home loan faster. It is a dangerous strategy so you will need professional advice from a tax advisor.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of god_of_moneygod_of_money
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    @god_of_money
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    Whilst its not an elegant solution, and possibly more effort than its worth.. you could sell the 470k property, pay out the $60k owing, purchase another rental/investment property at an LVR of 80% or 90%, and use the remainder of the proceeds of sale to reduce the current loan on the investment property you moved into. This would allow you to claim the majority of the interest your paying against your new rental property.

    Hope this helps![/quote]

    very costly exercise…

    Profile photo of Mr5o1Mr5o1
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    god_of_money wrote:
    Whilst its not an elegant solution, and possibly more effort than its worth.. you could sell the 470k property, pay out the $60k owing, purchase another rental/investment property at an LVR of 80% or 90%, and use the remainder of the proceeds of sale to reduce the current loan on the investment property you moved into. This would allow you to claim the majority of the interest your paying against your new rental property.

    Hope this helps!

    very costly exercise…

    Thats very true..

    but there wouldnt be any CGT, and the short term costs would balance with tax benefit in a few years when your talking about the tax deductibility of interest on around $400k! Still – its not a strategy I would recommend lightly..

    Profile photo of terryodterryod
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    @terryod
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    I have a similar question, a friend of mine moved out of his principal place of residence and moved into a new house. He has been negative gearing the first property since moving out. I said this is not right and he maybget hit by the ATO if he gets audited. Can som on let me know what the go is here?

    Profile photo of benno79benno79
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    @benno79
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    You could 'sell' the 470k property to your wife under a 'love and affection transfer'.

    The funds raised can then be used for whatever you like – ie offsetting your 600k place.

    The house that becomes an IP will then have a larger amount owing (since you've borrowed against the equity of this house to 'buy' it off your wife) and be better setup for negative geating.

    We're in the process of doing this.

    Profile photo of Mr5o1Mr5o1
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    terryod wrote:
    I have a similar question, a friend of mine moved out of his principal place of residence and moved into a new house. He has been negative gearing the first property since moving out. I said this is not right and he maybget hit by the ATO if he gets audited. Can som on let me know what the go is here?

    Terryod: it all depends on what interest he is claiming against the rent on that property he moved out of.. he cannot claim interest on loans used to construct the new property which he is now living in, even if those loans are secured against his original PPOR.

    Benno: I thought “love and affection transfers” could only be conducted where no money changed hands? so at first glance, you wouldnt be able to use such a transfer to change your borrowing purposes around. I’m really not sure.. I’ll look into it.

    Profile photo of benno79benno79
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    Mr5o1 wrote:
    terryod wrote:
    I have a similar question, a friend of mine moved out of his principal place of residence and moved into a new house. He has been negative gearing the first property since moving out. I said this is not right and he maybget hit by the ATO if he gets audited. Can som on let me know what the go is here?

    Terryod: it all depends on what interest he is claiming against the rent on that property he moved out of.. he cannot claim interest on loans used to construct the new property which he is now living in, even if those loans are secured against his original PPOR. Benno: I thought "love and affection transfers" could only be conducted where no money changed hands? so at first glance, you wouldnt be able to use such a transfer to change your borrowing purposes around. I'm really not sure.. I'll look into it.

    Mr501,
    In reality no money changes hands, but it does allow you to refinance your loan and redraw the equity to spend on non investment items like a new PPOR and turn your old PPOR into an IP.

    Profile photo of Dan42Dan42
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    @dan42
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    terryod wrote:
    I have a similar question, a friend of mine moved out of his principal place of residence and moved into a new house. He has been negative gearing the first property since moving out. I said this is not right and he maybget hit by the ATO if he gets audited. Can som on let me know what the go is here?

    It depends on what interest he is deducting. If he is deducting interest on borrowed funds that were used to by his new residence, then he is not claiming the interest correctly.

    He can only claim the interest on funds originally used to buy the first property. The security offerred is irrelevant.

    Profile photo of KennyjaizKennyjaiz
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    Join Date: 2009
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    The “love and affection transfer” portion is really to minimise the Stamp Duty payable, when changing the title deed.
    If the point of the exercise is to maximise the tax deductibility in the future, then it will depend on the partner/wife’s ability to get a loan to refinance the property. Since we are talking about disposing a PPOR with CGT exemption, it may be best to refinance it as much as possible while minimising unnecessary transactional costs. However, it will be unlikely the bank is willing to lend >105% of the property market value. Also, remember to do a valuation (or at least 3 REA quotes) for evidence to reset the cost base when changing over from PPOR to IP.

    However, do take into the consideration the tax deductibility will be transferred to the partner/wife with this scenario. Whether or not this is the best outcome, will depend on the partner’s income, objectives, the alternatives and the total cost of this exercise.

    Profile photo of benno79benno79
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    Kennyjaiz wrote:
    The "love and affection transfer" portion is really to minimise the Stamp Duty payable, when changing the title deed. If the point of the exercise is to maximise the tax deductibility in the future, then it will depend on the partner/wife's ability to get a loan to refinance the property. Since we are talking about disposing a PPOR with CGT exemption, it may be best to refinance it as much as possible while minimising unnecessary transactional costs. However, it will be unlikely the bank is willing to lend >105% of the property market value. Also, remember to do a valuation (or at least 3 REA quotes) for evidence to reset the cost base when changing over from PPOR to IP. However, do take into the consideration the tax deductibility will be transferred to the partner/wife with this scenario. Whether or not this is the best outcome, will depend on the partner's income, objectives, the alternatives and the total cost of this exercise.

    it may be best to refinance it as much as possible while minimising unnecessary transactional costs.
    But if you simply refinance, you are limited to purchasing investments with that refinanced amount?

    remember to do a valuation (or at least 3 REA quotes) for evidence to reset the cost base when changing over from PPOR to IP
    Could you expand on this point a little more please?  Why is it important?
    Thanks

    Profile photo of KennyjaizKennyjaiz
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    @kennyjaiz
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    benno79 wrote:
    Kennyjaiz wrote:
    The "love and affection transfer" portion is really to minimise the Stamp Duty payable, when changing the title deed. If the point of the exercise is to maximise the tax deductibility in the future, then it will depend on the partner/wife's ability to get a loan to refinance the property. Since we are talking about disposing a PPOR with CGT exemption, it may be best to refinance it as much as possible while minimising unnecessary transactional costs. However, it will be unlikely the bank is willing to lend >105% of the property market value. Also, remember to do a valuation (or at least 3 REA quotes) for evidence to reset the cost base when changing over from PPOR to IP. However, do take into the consideration the tax deductibility will be transferred to the partner/wife with this scenario. Whether or not this is the best outcome, will depend on the partner's income, objectives, the alternatives and the total cost of this exercise.

    it may be best to refinance it as much as possible while minimising unnecessary transactional costs.
    But if you simply refinance, you are limited to purchasing investments with that refinanced amount?

    remember to do a valuation (or at least 3 REA quotes) for evidence to reset the cost base when changing over from PPOR to IP
    Could you expand on this point a little more please?  Why is it important?
    Thanks

    Sorry Benno,
    I’m not entirely sure what you are asking: “But if you simply refinance, you are limited to purchasing investments with that refinanced amount?”
    What I was trying to say – once you have changed the title, you can refinance the property with the bank under a different loan structure / name. If the intention is to use this property as an investment property to generate income, then the mortgage interest is likely to be deductible. So if the exercise is to maximise your tax deductibility, then one would maximise the amount that can be borrowed for this property (e.g. if the property is valued at 500K, then you may want to refinance the property at $500K or even $525K, if the bank is willing to). After paying off the previous loan amount, you are free to spend/invest the proceed elsewhere, and the mortgage interest on the $525K will be full deductible.
    So to take your question literally, Yes. The income tax deduction is limited to the mortgage interest incurred for the loan used to refinance the property. This deductibility remains regardless of how you spend the proceed (investment or private use) in this particular instance.
    To avoid confusion, i should elaborate:
    In order to claim a income tax deduction on an investment property, you need to demonstrate nexus (i.e. a connection) between the income generated (i.e. rent) and the expense incurred (i.e mortgage interest). However, sometimes people do a top loan for personal reasons (e.g. to buy a car/yacht). Mortgage interest on this top up amount is normally not tax deductible, because there is no nexus on the income generated.
    In the “love and affectionate transfer” scenario, the whole refinanced amount is considered used to acquire this Investment Property (previously PPoR), hence, the mortgage interest will be tax deductible, when the property becomes available for rent.

    When you change the PPOR over to IP, the property is no longer CGT exempted. So when you eventually sell the property, you will be required to pay CGT. And in order to calculate the capital gain or loss, you need to determine the cost base. A bank/professional valuation or 3 REA quotes will be sufficient for the ATO. If you don’t have that as evidence of Cost Base, then the ATO will be likely to rely on Local Government estimates (on your Rates statement), but it may not be in your favour as local council usually understates the property value, hence a lower cost base and consequently a higher capital gain.

    You should check with your accountant.

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
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    Simplying refinancing and increasing a loan will not do since deductibility depends on the use the borrowed funds were put to.

    One spouse buing out another generally works well, but the benefits will depend on what state your property is in. Some states allow spouses to transfer title between themselves without stamp duty – but may states impose conditions such as the property to be the main residence in the future. I think Vic allows the transfer of an investment property between spouses without stamp duty.

    But you should also asses future tax deductibility because there may be little benefit, initially, of a non working spouse borrowing to buy out the half share of the other partner – they may have a negative geared property without an income, so no tax would be payable.

    You should also be wary about entering the transation with the aim of just saving tax .

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

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