All Topics / Legal & Accounting / owning property in what name? help!!!

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  • Profile photo of lockieozlockieoz
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    @lockieoz
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 2

    Hi there

    I received the latest edition of Steve's book for Christmas and I am just about half way through.  Recently my wife and i signed a contract for our first property that we will be moving into in late January.  This home was bought in both names.  After reading Steve's book he suggests that this home should have been bought in my wife's name only, so that we could borrow more money against my income (I earn $120k per year, my wife earns $30k) in the future when we purchase investment property.  It also sounds as if we should set up a family trust with me as the director.  Have I go this correct?  We are very keen to move forward and purchase an investment property in the next six months or so…

    Profile photo of ducksterduckster
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    @duckster
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 1,674

    Having thought about this question well to be honest while having a call of nature and a think. I think Steve is referring to protecting your assets. If your main residence is owned by the wife and the investment properties are in your name then if you stuff up you still have the main residence as it is not in your name.
    If you borrowed for your main residence home then you probably both had to borrow to make the loan requirements.
    So ownership is not the issue with borrowing capacity but more to do with what loan commitments you already have.
    Referring to setting up a family trust and being a director this is great but it is not cheap and it also effects how capital gains and income from the properties are treated.
    To be a director requires you to be a director of a company that owns the trust as these are separate entities to you means that you have to do more tax returns on each entity. One return for the Company and one return for the trust. This comes at a cost if using an accountant. It seems like a great idea ti have a structure set up but can you afford the extra costs plus the setup costs required.

    If you can get this book & read it
    How to legally Reduce your tax by Tony Melvin & Ed Chan

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    Trusts don't have directors, they have trustees. An individual can be trustee or a company can be (or a combination!).

    Whose name you should purchase in will depend on your situation but I generally recommend using only 1 name to own or guarantee investment properties as it reduces risk and may help you borrow more in the long run.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of lockieozlockieoz
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    @lockieoz
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 2

    Thanks for your comments duckster.  We did borrow for our main residence but this could be done by using our deposit and my salary only (We had a 20% deposit).  What I want to know is that should we put our main residence in my wife's name only?  We have not settled yet and my solicitor says that this could be done.  Regarding the finance.  I would have to guarantee the loan that would be in my wife's name.  If we do this wouldn't we have more borrowing capacity in the future as I would have no assets in my name?  Steve's book says that you should do this, then approach another lender and when you make an application for an investment loan use the partner with the highest salary as the owner as you will be able to borrow more money.  As I would be the guarantor for the loan on the main residence in my wife's name, would a new financier take this information into account when assessing a new loan application?  Any help would be good.

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
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    Lenders will take into account loans you have guaranteed as well as loans in which you are a borrower – it is the same thing really. But it is still a good idea to consider buying in one name as you may need to guarantee the loan initially but as circumstances change you may later refinance and come off the loan – and that will increase borrowing capacity.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of hillbillyhillbilly
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    @hillbilly
    Join Date: 2009
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    hi guys, know exactly where your coming from lockieoz, i to am trying to get my head around this. steves new book page 172 – 175 under borrowing capacity , quote- ' using multiple trusts and multiple lenders to source loans that i am guarantor for is one of the secrets to how i have borrowed tens of millions of dollars and brought hundreds of properties'. steve says to set up a family trust and then introduce a company trustee as the owner of any investment properties with you being the guarantor and director to the company trustee. he then says when your current lender wont lend the companee trustee any more money for more properties, move on to a new lender- set up another company trustee and start borrowing again. this is how i understand it.
      in steves example he has placed money into the trust for a deposit on the investment purchace, then the bank loans money to the trustee on behalf of the family trust.

    qu. how do you use equity in your own home without the need for a cash deposit in this situation? (the home residence being in the wives name)

    my accountant has (who i dont have the greatest confidence in) has just set up a family trust to split income from my small business- all invoices are titled xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxfamily trust, i have no companies as yet and i am the trustee. my wife does not work and we have children. i own one investment propety in my name.( locked in fixed interest till jan 2011- stupid idea) the personal place of residence is in her name only but both names apply on the loan-not sure if this means i am just guarantor? can anyone tell me if im heading down the right track? can someone give me the best possible structure in my situation for future multiple investments?

    great site steve and the team, best thing i ever done was by this book 2 wks ago ive learnt more in 2 wks than 20 yrs
    thanx for your time guys. 
    i may have some more questions

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
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    hi HB

    Lenders will want to include loans that someone has guaranteed in serviceability too.

    Business is extremely risky, so it is not a good idea to run a business like that. Better to set up a company to limit liability. You can have the shares owned by your trust.

    For spouses you can have the ownership of the property in 1 name with both names on the loan. Having the main house owned by the non-risk spouse is  agood asset protection idea.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of Richard TaylorRichard Taylor
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    @qlds007
    Join Date: 2003
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    Hillbillly

    Sorry i dont want to burst your bubble of enthusiasm but this is clear not true

    When your current lender wont lend the companee trustee any more money for more properties, move on to a new lender- set up another company trustee and start borrowing again. this is how i understand it.

    All loans you Guarantee are required to be disclosed to a lender irrespective of the entity you are using. A Company search will reveal you Directorship and non disclosure will mean the loan is likely to be declined.

    I think you will find that Steve has commented on this point a couple of times since the original publication and accepts this is not now the case.

    Personally i would not use the same Trust for investing as I would for running my own business.

    Sounds to me like your mortgage broker should be setting up your loan structures as it sounds like the existing loans are cross collateralised and this will cause you even more problems in the future.

    Richard Taylor | Australia's leading private lender

    Profile photo of cam7702cam7702
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    @cam7702
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 4

    I have discussed the trust structure with our accountant and researched it myself. It appears that in NSW any that the trust has no exemption from land tax. So we would pay land tax from day 1 on the first property. I understand the protection issues however what is the benefit of using a trust?? We have a family trust set up 2 kids and wife does not work so I like making the most of the trust but it doesn’t seem viable

    Dean

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    hi Dean

    Thats true about land tax in NSW. But once you have a few properties you will be paying land tax on them anyway. The exemption only applies to the first $370,000 or so.

    If you have 2 children they can earn about $3,000 pa each without paying tax. An adult can earn approx $15,000 pa without paying tax.

    So say you had a property portfolio returning $21,000 pa profit. If it was in your name you may pay $10,000 in tax, but if it a discretionary trust you could distribute it to wife and kids and may pay nil. As well as getting asset protection.

    The downside is that if there is a loss it is trapped in the tax and cannot be used to offset your personal income. Usually with property there is a loss in the early years. If you are self employed this can be offset by diverting other business income into the trust, if you are an employee this is much harder.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

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