All Topics / Help Needed! / Desperately need to lower our tax!!

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  • Profile photo of HartfamHartfam
    Member
    @hartfam
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 8

    Hi all,

    I'm new to this site and I'm seeking some advice on property investing to lower my partners tax.  We dont have any investment properties at the moment and are paying a bucket load of tax!
    My partners gross income is $225k.  Our only asset is the family home which is worth $520k however we owe $300k.

    Any suggestions??  I was hoping to attend Steve McKnights seminar this weekend in Melbourne to get some advice but am unable to.

    Thanks in advance
    hartfam :)

    Profile photo of Scott No MatesScott No Mates
    Participant
    @scott-no-mates
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 3,856

    Seek out an independent financial planner as direct property may only be part of a balanced solution.

    SNM

    Profile photo of j900j900
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    @j900
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 56

    What does your husband do that make him that much? :)

    Profile photo of HartfamHartfam
    Member
    @hartfam
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 8

    Mining :)

    Does anyone know any or predict any suburbs/areas which are good to invest in?  I have made an appointment to see a financial planner aswell so hopefully we'll come away with some good strategies.

    hartfam

    Profile photo of KennyjaizKennyjaiz
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    @kennyjaiz
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 69

    Hartfam,

    Steve’s strategy is primarily +ve cash flow based, which may not be what you are after, if your objective is tax minimisation.
    However Steve can give you insights and idea that will be beneficial regardless of your strategy.

    your financial planner should be able to come up with a plan that suits your personal circumstance.
    Besides strategy, you might want to ask about the optimal structure to “house” the investment and their pros and cons. (ie Individual, Company, Trust, etc)

    In terms of where to invest, this was on the news the other day:
    http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,26084162-5013244,00.html

    Best of luck
    Kenny

    Profile photo of j900j900
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    @j900
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 56

    If you want to get into property but don't know enough about it, consider using buyer's agents. A good one will know what property to buy for the specific reasons. This is a few thousand dollars well spent rather than shooting blindly in the dark (but luck in finding good planner/agent also at play of course).

    Don't be afraid of dumping professional quickly if you don't feel comfortable with them.

    If the financial planner you talk to tries to talk you out of property but into managed funds that he sell (usually with massive tax deduction), don't just walk away. run as fast as  you can! :)

    Profile photo of HartfamHartfam
    Member
    @hartfam
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 8

    thanks Kenny – Ive just had a look at some properties from that website you gave me.    I hoping for some really good advice from the planner as we're ready to do something, just dont know what!!

    Profile photo of HartfamHartfam
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    @hartfam
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    Post Count: 8

    j900 – if managed funds are a massive tax deduction isnt this a good thing for what we're after?  I know NOTHING about managed funds mind you!!
    I am aware however, that the planner might try and get us to buy into a product which he  receives a commission so I will be avoiding that like the plague aswell.

    Profile photo of Richard TaylorRichard Taylor
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    @qlds007
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 12,024

    I hate to say it is very unlikely that your Financial planner will recommend property as normally there is minimal benefit to him or her in such an investment strategy.

    Certainly listen to what they have to say but then look to map your own path.

    Remember investing just for Tax effectiveness is a very poor long term strategy.

    Richard Taylor | Australia's leading private lender

    Profile photo of j900j900
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    @j900
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 56

    Hartfam,

    These things come at a price. In the past they have been low performance (if perform at all) investments – You prepay some on-going costs (where the deduction comes from), he get a nice commission, and you expose yourself to often high-risk and elaborate financial scheme that designed only to benefit every one in the selling chain but the actual paying buyer. Sometimes they'll also advise you to take out a loan and prepay the interest (more deduction). It smells like this – borrow/invest $100,000, you get $50,000 deduction… bla bla…. mature in 5 years… bla… can't guarantee… bla… but it's a fantastic investment for someone like you who make so much money… bla bla…

    In 2005/6 my accountant invite me to a "launch dinner" at Sheraton hotel in order to sell me one of these funds and a few other "agricultural schemes" including Timbercorp (which has since collapsed). I'm not saying funds are not good, nor am I saying they don't deserve commission, but if it feels like it's designed to lure novice investors, be very careful.

    After the GFC I hope the landscape gets cleaned up a bit.

    Lastly, count your blessing that you're paying bucket loads of tax. I wish I could be doing that. Within immediate term (this FY) obtaining tax deduction should be seen as a bonus in devising a long term investment strategy, and not as the primary aim (if so just donate the money to a charity – that always give some people satisfaction and is a good spiritual investment). That said, if chosen properly, negetive geared properties are often the most sensible way to achieve this. Anything else (such as shares/funds), you probably won't want to borrow too much and borrowing to obtain tax deduction is just downright risky.

    Or take more holidays and try to forget about how much tax you pay… AUD is high and a trip overseas costs about 40% less than earlier this year.

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    If your husband is working for a company as PAYG then there is not much you can do to reduce tax – one way is salary sacrifice into super.

    I wouldn't worry too much about the tax, just set yourselves up properly for investments and maximise the returns. eg. you could set up a discretionary trust and have all the income diverted to yourself – if you are on the lower income!

    You also need to consider asset protection. People on high salaries are often on so much because of the risk involved – he may be a director for example. So you need to consider this too. What happens if he is sued>?

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of StumpCamStumpCam
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    @stumpcam
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 76

    Hi Hartfam, just one thing about shares/manged funds, you'd be hard pressed to invest in shares that pay less than the current interest rate anyway. Banks etc currently have a yield of about 5-6% fully franked, which is 7.14 – 8.57% after franking credits are added in. Your loan interest may well be less than that if you use a home equity loan, so it won't do much to reduce your tax. All you could do is pre-pay interest for one year if your income is going to drop drastically next f/y. It's still chicken feed compared to your wage though.
     As for property, for some perspective, say you buy a new IP for 420k, you'll be getting tax credits of about 6k on a 250k wage, ie that's how much your tax will be reduced for one property. That will fade quite considerably after a few years, and may even be zero after a decade at which time you'd rather have the props in your name as the lower incomer earner.
    There isn't much difference long term between having the properties in your name or your partner's when you bring it all back to net present value. You {save tax now, but pay more later} or {carry forward losses now and pay less tax later}. Most of us put it in the higher income earner's name to make it more affordable at the start, but that shouldn't be an issue with you;) You should have it in a trust as Terry says, which will have much the same tax situation as having it in your name (with net losses having to be carried forward in the early years), with the added benefit of asset protection.

    Salary sacrifice to the limit into super, but that's now chicken feed as well thanks to the latest changes.
    Best wishes, nice problem to have, S/C

    Profile photo of rgiblinrgiblin
    Member
    @rgiblin
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 3

    Hartfam,

    I can help! go visit Pulse Property Research http://www.pulseproperty.com.au. Unfortunately you can't view current properties (web issues) but there are currently 23 properties with over 500 dwellings to choose from Nationally

    My knowledge comes from working with business clients (accountants, & financial planners and their clients to identify "in value" investments). Happy to help. 

    Just call the number on the web site (02 – 9299 2232) and ask for me – my name is Robert Giblin

    Good luck with the search

    Robert

    Profile photo of HartfamHartfam
    Member
    @hartfam
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 8

    Stumpcam – geez $6k, it doesnt really seem worth it to get a deduction of $6k!  And then further down the line not receiving any tax deduction.
    j900 – we take lots of holidays and it is a nice problem to have but if we can reduce tax legally then its worth looking into.

    Property isnt looking like a great benefit then, will just see what the planner has to say I guess

    Thanks all :)

    Profile photo of StumpCamStumpCam
    Member
    @stumpcam
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 76

    Hartfam, it's a tax credit of 6k, ie 6k less tax. The actual deduction is nearly twice that, as you're in the 46.5% bracket. This deduction will rise if interest rates rise, but it will fall as depreciation dwindles. Property is certainly a great benefit in the long term. Tax is just part of the picture, and as I've mentioned, getting big tax deductions now means you may pay the piper a lot more in a decade when your gearing goes positive.

     You're in a much better situation than most investors, as you have enough income to support quite a few negatively geared properties, but your limiting factor is equity. You have a 520k home with 300k loan. If you wish to keep all loans at 80% LVR, then your 300k loan must be securitised by 375k worth of property. That leaves 145k spare, and you'll be able to get an LOC of 116k(80% of that spare equity). That 116k LOC will allow you to buy one property worth about four times that, ie 464k with another loan of 348k . I use 4:1 because you'll need about 25% deposit (5% to cover legals & stamp duty on top of the 20% for the bank).

    These numbers will be a lot bigger if you can push the ratio a bit more aggressively to 90% with associated LMI expenses, but your wage should allow you to push the boundaries a bit more.
    S/C

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