All Topics / Help Needed! / Buy 1 property with more equity – or buy 2 with less?

Viewing 10 posts - 1 through 10 (of 10 total)
  • Profile photo of Les PaulLes Paul
    Member
    @les-paul
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 2

    Hi,
    I am new to property investing. In fact I have not even started so I have no idea about it as yet and am after all the advice I can get.

    I own my Sydney home outright (no mortgage) and it is valued at $650,000. I have earnt a relatively large lump sum of money and would like to invest it in property. The amount of money is enough to buy about 3/4 of a nice sized villa in Sydneys east. I would rent it out to pay of the remainder.

    My question is, Is there any tax benefits or other benefits in using the money to buy 2 or 3 propertys, instead of 1, with the intention of renting them out. Obviously I will have less equity in each and have to loan more money, but I thought there may be other benefits to it that I do not know of.   

    Thank you

    Profile photo of KennyjaizKennyjaiz
    Member
    @kennyjaiz
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 69

    Les Paul,

    This will depend on your circumstance and your objectives.
    If you are looking for income tax deduction because you are a high income earner, then you would seek many negative gearing properties, where the income is lower than expenses. Buying multiple properties will give you more opportunities to do that.
    Question is, should tax minimisation be your main motivation for property investment?

    From a financial planning perspective, buying multiple properties will diversify your risk.

    Cheers,
    Kenny

    Profile photo of Les PaulLes Paul
    Member
    @les-paul
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 2

    Thanks Kenny. No Im not looking to minimise tax. Im a middle income earner.

    Im actually looking at long term, and starting a property portfolio for 15 to 20 years down the track. I want my money somewhere safe and relatively risk free for retirement. So I assume then that I should invest in 1 property at first. 

    cheers
    Shane

    Profile photo of Richard TaylorRichard Taylor
    Participant
    @qlds007
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 12,024

    Hi Shane

    Personally I wouldnt use any of my own money on an asset where i can obtain a deduction on the interest. 

    That is not to say i would pay interest on the loan but i would utilise an offset account so if circumstances changed down the track and I need access to my own funds I could withdraw them from the offset account without interfering with the loan or its structure.

    Flexibility is the key when investing as just because you dont need access to your own cash resources now you may in the future.

    Lot easier to have it accessible.

    Richard Taylor | Australia's leading private lender

    Profile photo of j900j900
    Participant
    @j900
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 56

    Get an LOC on 80% of your house, buy as many properties as you can with enough equity to break-even (interest expense + rent income = 0, factoring in 2% rate rise). With the equity and cash you probably can buy 3 houses if not more (30% deposit on each).

    1. property selection is important – buy only investment grade property
    2. if you're new to investing in property, this exercise will take time. dont rush. If I were you, I'll buy one property at a time, and adjust my selection strategy along the way.

    And then just wait comfortably until house prices go up enough, then formulate your next move.

    I'm a risk taker. If I have what  you have, I'll buy 5 properties and negative gear this year. But then that will carry much higher risk. But hey… to be honest, with that equity and spare cash, I'll quit my job and trade/invest full time in both share and properties. (unless I really love my job and it pays me very well) :-)

    I'm learning too. Anyone see any problem with my hypothesis? Or am I being naive? I'm half way towards this scenario myself…

    Profile photo of mxdmxd
    Member
    @mxd
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 45
    Hi Les Paul,

    as always see a financial advisor / accountant.

    For me I am looking at. 

    1) set up a family trust, (you can't get the negative gearing benefit straight off, you coulds look at a hybrid but the tax man might not like them in the future)

    2) Get an interest only loan (LOC, etc..)

    3) You Gaurantee the loan in the family trust name

    4) Aim to Buy multiple (start at 1) properties (maybe outside of Sydney)

    5) Factor in an interest rate of 7.75%

    6) look for good rent yeild and capital growth.

    good luck,

    Profile photo of KennyjaizKennyjaiz
    Member
    @kennyjaiz
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 69

    j900,

    Fundamentally, there is no major flaw in logic in what you are recommending.
    However, keep in mind that there are people in different stages in their lives, and risk may not be a very attractive option. It will be remiss of us to assume their taste and preference.
    Having said that, personally, I would probably invest in multiple asset classes (not just properties) in order to diversify the risk. If I can only invest in properties, I will buy in different states with a mixture of high growth and high rental.

    With regards to your situation. Firstly, I commend you for your passion and enthusiasm.
    However, I would recommend that you critically assess your circumstances before being too aggressive. Interest rate are at its historical low, and analysts/experts suggest that they will be going up. For example, would you be able to finance your serie of mortgages if interest rate was to go up by 2%? And if you have fixed your interest, will you be able to afford 3 months worth of mortgage interest if your tenants were to skip town? These are not rare occurrences, and Murphy law suggests that it will happen!

    Also just being a bit of a devils advocate here, how would you feel if the property bubble pops at the end of the year, when interest rate hikes, first home buyer boost runs out, unemployment rises, increasing number of foreclosures – and all your newly acquired properties all drop by 20%?
    Market volatility is an integral part of property investment, you have to take into account of different risks. But you obviously understand the risk involved as you clearly state, so you may have already factored in all these.
    (mind you, for the record – if you have read my other postings – you will know that i have a positive outlook for residential properties in the east coast in the next couple of years)

    One last comment about acquiring too many negative gearing properties, assuming it’s in your own name, you will eventually run out of servicibility. You will need a good broker to proceed.

    .

    Best of luck to the both of you!
    Kenny

    Profile photo of j900j900
    Participant
    @j900
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 56

    Kennyjaiz,

    Thank you for your kind comments. Much appreciated.

    I didn't explain well…

    With Les Paul's position, I think 3 cashflow neurtral properties is quite attainable, and in doing so he'll make his money work very hard for him while taking a small risk (providing he bought the right property). Wouldn't you agree? Why hold so much equity and cash and not use them to the best advantage.

    For me, I would do that and negative gear 2 more, after all 3 are proven cf~ with enough buffer for 2% hike. I didn't mean gear all five.. that will be crazy. Granted, it'll probably take me well over 1-2 years to find all 5 properties I want to buy…

    Yes life stages is a major influencing factor. I'm single and have no kids! That explains my appetite for risk… make it 2 cf+ and 1 cf- if needed…

    Think that's more readily acceptable…

    Profile photo of KennyjaizKennyjaiz
    Member
    @kennyjaiz
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 69

    j900,

    I agree, Shane should be in a position to purchase multiple properties and still be able to get them cash neutral (or even cash positive) with good capital growth and rental. Seeing that he is a middle income earner, he can look for cash positive to supplement his income. His equity and lump sum can be better used.

    As Matt (mxd) suggested, Shane should speak to a financial advisor / accountant to determine the best approach to maximise his return.

    As for you – sounds like you know exactly what you want and you are well on your way! Well done!

    Kenny

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    I would get a LOC on the existing house and use that as 20% deposit and borrow the remaining 80% for the 1st investment. Make the loan IO with a 100% offset account attached. Place all of your cash into the offset. This way you have not used any of your cash and you still have it available for future investments if need be – and you have a property with it very tax effective.

    Also you should look at using a discretionary trust.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

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