All Topics / General Property / Project management

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  • Profile photo of ToolsTools
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    @tools
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 363

    If you were developing some units or even a single house on some land that you owned, what would you be looking for in a project manager that would manage the whole process from the planning stage, and how much would be a fair remuneration for their services?

    Tools

    Profile photo of Sailesh CSailesh C
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    @sailesh-c
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 62

    Hi

    We charge a fee of $10k to help source a site. This includes conducting a feasibility study, help with due diligence and negotiation. Apart from the above charge we also charge a 10% success fee upon project completion.

    The feasibilities are done using resale estimates in todays market value. The project should have a return of at least 60% return on capital invested.

    We have been providing this service for the last 5 years with many satisfied clients. Most clients have now moved onto multiple projects.

    For house and land packages we do not charge a fee.

    Profile photo of Jon ChownJon Chown
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    @jon-chown
    Join Date: 2007
    Post Count: 254

    SaileshC wrote – The project should have a return of at least 60% return on capital invested……   Please explain?

    Profile photo of Sailesh CSailesh C
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    @sailesh-c
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 62
    Jon Chown wrote:
    SaileshC wrote – The project should have a return of at least 60% return on capital invested…… Please explain?

    With most small developments you will need around $100k of funds from existing equity to help you fund your purchase. This money will be used towards purchase costs, interest and development costs.

    Therefore, if the project takes 1 year to complete you will need to make a profit of at least $60k to get a 60% return on your capital invested. Fortunately most projects have shown profits far greater than this.

    Setting a minimum standard allows us to assess potential sites and we only recommend properties that pass the test.

    Profile photo of Michael 888Michael 888
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    @michael-888
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 260
    Sailesh C wrote:
    Jon Chown wrote:
    SaileshC wrote – The project should have a return of at least 60% return on capital invested…… Please explain?

    With most small developments you will need around $100k of funds from existing equity to help you fund your purchase. This money will be used towards purchase costs, interest and development costs.

    Therefore, if the project takes 1 year to complete you will need to make a profit of at least $60k to get a 60% return on your capital invested. Fortunately most projects have shown profits far greater than this.

    Setting a minimum standard allows us to assess potential sites and we only recommend properties that pass the test.

    Doesn't that assume that the borrowed funds are paid back in full (and with interest capitalised)?

    Return on funds (hurt money) of 60 % is one perspective, however aren't the lenders/backers going to want to see a return of 20 % and then some on the project end value as part of the feasbility before advancing their funds?

    Profile photo of Sailesh CSailesh C
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    @sailesh-c
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 62
    michaelparis wrote:
    Sailesh C wrote:
    Jon Chown wrote:
    SaileshC wrote – The project should have a return of at least 60% return on capital invested…… Please explain?

    With most small developments you will need around $100k of funds from existing equity to help you fund your purchase. This money will be used towards purchase costs, interest and development costs.

    Therefore, if the project takes 1 year to complete you will need to make a profit of at least $60k to get a 60% return on your capital invested. Fortunately most projects have shown profits far greater than this.

    Setting a minimum standard allows us to assess potential sites and we only recommend properties that pass the test.

    Doesn't that assume that the borrowed funds are paid back in full (and with interest capitalised)?

    Return on funds (hurt money) of 60 % is one perspective, however aren't the lenders/backers going to want to see a return of 20 % and then some on the project end value as part of the feasbility before advancing their funds?

    It depends on what your objectives are when looking to develop. If you are a developer who develops for a living and is approaching the bank to fund  the development as a development loan then the returns will need to be at a minimum of 20% and naturally the margin on your capital would be a lot higher. So far we have had only 1 client choose this method of funding. The loan was approved after a lot of delay. However, since the project was being undertaken by a joint venture  the joint and several liability issues was off putting and they ended up going with conventional finance.

    Most of our clients are investors looking for small duplex, splitter or house and land investments. They fund the projects using their own equity and obtain a loan at 80 or 90% to fund the land and construction cost. These investors are just happy to have made the transition from buying at retail prices and now going to developing and owning new properties at wholesale prices.

    Buying wholesale also leads to having better cashflow.

    Profile photo of Jon ChownJon Chown
    Member
    @jon-chown
    Join Date: 2007
    Post Count: 254

    Sailesh, I can see where you are comming from and this is certainly a good way for an investor to add properties to their portfolio at the right price (wholesale).   Especially if they are holders.

    On the other hand I was heading in the same direction as Michael in relation to commercial development wher banks don't want to lend unless bottom line is in excess of 20% and half of the Development is pre sold.

    Your 60% on outlay is in my opinion a good sales pitch but in my opinion would require further clarification in order to work out if you can deliver the goods.

    Profile photo of Sailesh CSailesh C
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    @sailesh-c
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 62

    The following is an example of the latest results obtained by our client. The property was tenanted about 6 weeks ago.

    Project background:
    We helped a client locate a duplex site in Caboolture. The land was located in a new estate close to town center, train, hospital, schools and easy access to the freeway. The site came with an existing DA approval. This was the first of many that we recommended in this estate. However, being the first led to us going through some learning experiences as the DA approval was granted outside the planning guidelines of the Caboolture council. This meant that no one in the council could give us a straight answer on what design parameters we should employ. After weeks of discussions we managed to come up with an acceptable solution that satisfied the council, covenant police and certifiers. Fortunately the block was purchased on a delayed settlement pending land registration. However design costs where abnormally high.  We managed to defray some of the concept costs to other clients who where developing in this estate as they benefited from our earlier learning experience.

    The figures are as follows:
        Land purchase price: $193 500
        Stamp duty, etc :$8 750
        Consultants fees( includes drafting, engineering, BA and our PM fees): $40 000
        Construction cost : $282 750
        Interest: $22 000
        Rates, etc: $2317
        Total Cost: $549 317

        End valuation: $704 000.00

        Profit: $154 683

        Equity injected $130 000 which means the margin on equity was 118%

        Total rental income: $680 per week

    The above returns are fairly typical of what our clients generally achieve. However, when we initially presented the figures to the client he was only expecting a profit of around $70 000. The market moved up over the duration of the project which led to a better result.

    This client initially approached us in 2006 where we helped him with identify and split a block in Rothwell. He had similar profits in his first project.

    Mid way through his second project he purchased another duplex block and we expect to start construction on his third project in 6 to 8 weeks.

    In this way we have helped quite a few clients with the majority going on to multiple projects. A number do develop to sell however, we encourage our clients to develop and hold where possible.

    The only difficulty with this type of investing is the availability of viable sites. The vast majority of sites are overpriced which makes finding affordable sites suitable to the small investor/ developer quite a challenge.

    Profile photo of Jon ChownJon Chown
    Member
    @jon-chown
    Join Date: 2007
    Post Count: 254

    Sailesh, Can't argue with those figures as this projest is almost positive geared.

    I'm assuming that you built a low set duplex and I'm impressed that you could do it for $282,750.

    You say that the land came with a DA.   Does the Caboolture shire council differ to other councils as I thought that a DA included design plans and concept drawings for the property being built.   Oh and by the way, it's not unusual to not be able to get a straight answer no matter which council you are trying to work with, at least it only took weeks not years like it does with the BCC.

    Profile photo of Sailesh CSailesh C
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    @sailesh-c
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 62
    Jon Chown wrote:
    Sailesh, Can't argue with those figures as this projest is almost positive geared.

    I'm assuming that you built a low set duplex and I'm impressed that you could do it for $282,750.

    You say that the land came with a DA. Does the Caboolture shire council differ to other councils as I thought that a DA included design plans and concept drawings for the property being built. Oh and by the way, it's not unusual to not be able to get a straight answer no matter which council you are trying to work with, at least it only took weeks not years like it does with the BCC.

    The land was purchased in a major northside development undertaken by QM properties.The developer obtained a material change of use (MCU) from the council on designated lots in the estate. This was written into the overall DA for the estate.  Generally the approved sites where corner lots that where 800sqm or greater. This meant that the developer did not have to submit plans or building envelopes.

    The Caboolture council generally only allows duplexes on blocks that are 1000sqm or greater. This means a lot of the design parameters are based on the assumption the land will be of a certain size. Therefore, very little consideration was given to the impact  the duplex design policy will have on smaller blocks.

    The project managers at QM properties where unaware of the existence of a duplex design policy. Other builders had built duplexes in this estate prior to us and they did not follow the guidelines. However, we did not want to be the ones to get caught out and blindly follow what the others had done previously.

    The duplex is a 4 bedroom low set dwelling with double lock up garages with a under roof area of 180sqm each. It is reasonably spacious and can accommodate a small family. The construction cost was based on last years prices. With recent increases in material cost the same dwelling will cost around $290 000. However we have improved the specifications slightly as well.

    Profile photo of Jon ChownJon Chown
    Member
    @jon-chown
    Join Date: 2007
    Post Count: 254

    Well done Sailesh, thank you for the response,it sounds like Caboolture Shire is a progressive council to work with.

    $805 per sq meter building price is still excellent in my opinion.   Unit construction cost is hovering around $3,200 per M2 and even though there is underground parking and hights to consider,the $2395 seems more than adequate to make up for the difference.

    Profile photo of Sailesh CSailesh C
    Member
    @sailesh-c
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 62

    Thanks Jon

    We can build these duplexes at such prices because we are large enough to get very good discounts from suppliers on material costs. Yet, we are not too big where we have very high overheads.

    We do not have display homes, sales people or franchise fees either.

    This way we are able to pass on the savings to our clients which translates to greater profits. We end up benefiting in this win win relationship as we get a lot of repeat business and referrals. This saves us tens of thousands in advertising. To date we have not spent on advertising apart from our business cards and website (which has not been updated with new phone numbers for the last few years)

    ps the 1300 number is correct.

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