All Topics / Legal & Accounting / Fixed Unit Trust vs Standard Unit Trust … what is the difference!?

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  • Profile photo of SulleySulley
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    @sulley
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 6

    Hi Guys n Gals

    I'm a little confused about the difference between Fixed Unit Trusts and Std Unit Trusts.  I understand the tax implications, but what functionality am I gaining or losing with each and which would be more appropriate for our investment.  There are a group of 4 of us as beneficiaries in the trust, we're not family or close friends, so a unit trust of some kind is a must.  Each party will be putting some money in and I will be putting time and mgt in for my units.

    Does a fixed trust mean we can't alter the units if a new investor / unit holder comes in … I don't know.  I've asked three accountants and all I hear is "lala … lala … lala … " …. some simple plain english answers would be nice.

    Cheers
    Andre

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    I am not sure of the differences either, but have that ridiculously expensive book "trust structures guide" which outlines the various types of trusts and their differences.

    It says "The fixed unit trust differs from an ordinary unit trust in that the provisions dealing with the issue of futher units and the redemption of units by the trustee provide that each of these must occur at a price determined on the basis of the net asset value of the trust fund according to Australian Accounting Principles.The power of amendment of the deed is also restricted so that the provisions regarding the calculation of the price for the issue or redemption of  units cannot be altered."

    Under unit trusts it says they are "not appropriate where revenue losses are involved (a fixed unit trust should be used instead."

    What this means is, I think, that is there is a loss in a unit trust (like negative gearing on a property), then the loss may not be able to be claimed by  a unit holder in a unit trust, but could be in a fixed unit trust.

    A unit holder may be able to borrow to buy units in a trust and then claim the interest on the loan against their personal income if the units are income producing. But if the units can be redeemed by the trustee of the of trust at non-market values, then there is no commercial benefit in borrowing to buy units and therefore the ATO can disallow the claim.

    eg. say you buy a $100,000 property with 100 units, each valued initially at $1000. Each unit holder claims a loss from negative gearing for a few years. Then the property jumps to $200,000 but Mr X wants out and the trustee redeems (buys back) the units at  $120. There is only a capital gain of $20 per unit, but the assets of the trust have increased by 100% and the unit holder has claimed a loss from negative gearing for all of these  years.

    This is why many of the old hybrid trust deeds will fail.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of Chan NaylorChan Naylor
    Participant
    @chan-naylor
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 6

    Hi Everyone
     The Difference between a Fixed Unit Trust(FUT) and an Ordinary Unit Trust(OUT) is mainly the definition of their rights of unit ownership.

    In a FUT the unit holders are deemed to have a greater equitable interest in the asset held by the FUT. For example, in an OUT the right to redeem units is usually at the discretion of the trustee where as in the FUT the unit holder has the right to demand the redemption of the units.

    Therefore, if the unit holder becomes bankrupt, the receiver in bankruptcy can takeover the ownership of the units in the trusts and demand that the trustee redeem them thereby triggering the sale of assets with the proportional funds going to the receiver and hence you will not achieve asset protection via a FUT and for land tax purposes you will be assessed like a partnership and retain a land tax threshold. 

    For clients of ours who are in NSW and its their first property we usually recommend they use our “Fixed Property Trust” which is treated similarly to a FUT except we have other benefits such as no vesting date that are more specific to properties.

    The FPT gets the NSW land tax threshold but as pointed out above asset protection is primarily lost  For an Ordinary Unit Trust (OUT) the unit holders are deemed to simply have a Right or Entitlement to the Trust but not necessarily an interest in the actual asset of the Trust. Hence, for land tax purposes the OUT do not get a land tax threshold because they do not have an interest in the land but simply an entitlement to the total assets of the Trust and not to specific assets of the Trust like FUT. Hence, an OUT is treated like a “Special Trust” and loses its land tax threshold. 

    Recently there was a Victorian case called CT Custodian v’s OSR which cleared the definitions and they changed the land tax rules to reflect the test case results.
     Depending on the clients needs we would either recommend our “Fixed Property Trust” if this is the client’s first property and he needs to retain his land tax threshold which is a savings of up to$6000 in land tax p.a. based on the available land tax threshold of $359,000.

    However, if this is the clients second or third property and he has “used up” their land tax threshold than we recommend they go into our "Property Investors Trust™ " because it gives you all the other benefits and was specifically set up for properties but it does not get a land tax threshold in NSW.

    However, if the client already has other investment properties and have “used up” their threshold than they are not disadvantaged.

    Hope this helps

    Regards
    The Team at Chan & Naylor
    http://www.chan-naylor.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213
    Chan Naylor wrote:
    Hi Everyone

    For clients of ours who are in NSW and its their first property we usually recommend they use our “Fixed Property Trust” which is treated similarly to a FUT except we have other benefits such as no vesting date that are more specific to properties.


    Thanks for the explanation Chan-Naylor.

    Could you explain the above quote please. I am interested how a person in NSW can set up a trust without a vesting date. South Australia is the only state without a Law on Perpetuities so it may work by forming a trust and trustee company in SA but can it work for property held outside that state?

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of Chan NaylorChan Naylor
    Participant
    @chan-naylor
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 6

    Hi Terryw,
    You are correct in stating that South Australia is the only State without a law on Perpetuities. The Company has to be established in SA and they can certainly work for properties held outside that State.
    The Directors can also live in another State.
    Obviously its not as simple as setting up a Company is SA. We have spent many years with our lawyers getting around the Vesting Dates problems because of our property strategies where the properties were never sold but passed from generation to generation and when we first raised this with our lawyers they stated it could not be done due to both State and Federal laws. In fact they came back with 6 pages of things we needed to overcome. Over the years and tens of thousands of dollars later we found a way around the problem one at a time until after many years we were able to finally find a solution to each and every obstacle until the lawyers signed off on it around 18 months ago.
    We than Trade marked the PIT™ as we did not want our hard work plagiarised as people often try to do. Naturally the Vesting date was only one of many other benefits.
      

    Hope this helps.
    Regards
    The Team at Chan & Naylor
    http://www.chan-naylor.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    Thanks for the reply Chan and Naylor.

    Your trust sounds very good.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

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