All Topics / General Property / Newbie questions

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  • Profile photo of sev3nsev3n
    Member
    @sev3n
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 3

    Hi guys,

    First of all … Merry Xmas and Happy New Yr! [xmas]
    Just found this website from google when I was looking for
    information on investment(property). Read some of the articles/topics posted in this forum and I found them to be
    very educational and informative. I’ve got some questions
    inside my head that been bothering me for few days now,
    I hope someone can enlighten / help me on these matters[biggrin]

    Here is my situation:
    I just turn 25. I have enough money saved to pay for 10% deposit
    homeloan. I’ve been thinking about buying a house (as investment)
    for about 3 mths now. Currently live in a shared-house, paying about $550/mth (including bills).

    These are what I’ve found so far from couple forums:
    (that kept buggin me [confused2])

    1. they’re saying that at the moment its not such a good time to buy a property (due to high cost,rising interest rates etc), and that investors should wait for the next booming cycle. Are they making a false statement here?

    2. Kept seeing a lot of ads for one BR apartment in CBD that goes
    for 100k-180k. Are these good investment for first time investor? or
    is it just a bogus ad by real estate agents?

    3. Can someone please explain about Rate of Return on Investment? e.g. buying a unit that costs 180k with rental return
    of 9k/pa. Would a positive return generally means that your rent
    will cover your monthly payment?

    4. As a first home owner, is it true that I will not be eligible for the
    first home owner grant from the government unless I live in it for the first 12 mths? What if I live in it and rent a room or 2 to another person? Would i still be eligible for it?

    Thank you in adv for your help guys.
    [laughing]

    Cheers,

    Sven.

    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
    Member
    @l.a-aussie
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 1,488

    Welcome to our forum!
    I’ll have a go at answering the questions –

    1. Generally, with the exception of Perth and maybe Darwin, now is a good time to buy as in most parts of Aus the boom has ended and the cycle is nearing the bottom, or maybe slightly either side. You will need to research each micro-market (neighbourhood or suburb) to know for sure.
    If you are a ‘buy and hold’ investor there is no bad time, just bad properties.

    2. You need to research your chosen investment area to find out what is the best property for the demand. For example, you may buy a 2 bed unit and find out from the council that there are plans for 1,000 of them to be built in the next 2 years. That will create a lot of competition for your property, or you may find that it is a family orientated area and they need yards and extra beds, which you don’t have.
    If there are lots of 1 bedders for sale it may mean they can’t get rid of them because no-one will rent them. Do some deeper research.
    TIP: whatever a r/e agent says, divide it by 5 and add lots of salt. Find out your own anwers and truths.

    3. There are numerous rates of return you can look at. If you are talking about rent return, divide the yearly rent by the purchase price and then multiply by 100.
    eg: weekly rent = $200. ($10,400 yearly)
    purchase price= $200k.
    $10,400/ $200,000= 0.052
    x 100 = 5.2%
    A positive return means the rent covers ALL the costs – loan, insurance, rates, management, repairs etc. This is very hard to find in Aus at the moment unless you can add value somehow.

    4. I am not sure whether it’s 6 or 12 months you need to live in it to be eligible for the FHOG. Check the Aus Govt website.
    I’m fairly sure you can rent the rooms out after you move in if you want. But again; check with the Govt; you could google FHOG as well.

    In closing, do lots of reading now – Margaret Lomas, Jan Somers, Neil Whittaker, Steve McNight, Property Investor Magazine, Monique Wakelin, Neil Jenman, Terry Ryder, to name a few.

    Cheers,
    Marc.
    [email protected]

    Profile photo of Kipper57Kipper57
    Member
    @kipper57
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 252

    Being as you are purchasing the place as an investment property, you may still be eligable for the first home owners grant when purchase your owner occupied at a later time.

    When calculating your expenses consider these
    Body corp fees can be quite expensive
    Council rates
    Insurance
    Rent loss insurance
    Property management fees
    Also pays to put aside a small kitty of money for repairs etc

    Best to make a yearly figure of it all eg your costs and compare with the rental income. Speak with your accountant and you maybe entitled to some upfront tax relief and depreciation benefits

    Wayne Skewes
    Mortgage Broker
    Email [email protected]
    http://www.eaussie.com.au/Mortgages/Aussie_Mortgage_Adviser.asp?ContentID=852280
    Refinace, Loan Consolidation, Owner Occupied or Investment Finance. Free Service I come to you!

    Profile photo of sev3nsev3n
    Member
    @sev3n
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 3

    [biggrin] thx for the quick reply, i guess i better start doing some reading on property investment books. [smiling]
    Any good books to read for a newbie like me guys?

    Another couple quick questions:
    1. I’ve been told that buying a house is better than buying an apartment unit. When we buy a house, we get a piece of land that
    goes up in price, I’d like to know more about the pros and cons
    from each..

    2. If i have a property and I want to rent it out, how much does real estate agent usually charges for their service? (i.e. finding tenant etc)

    Thx again.

    Profile photo of bridgebuffbridgebuff
    Participant
    @bridgebuff
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 189

    Steve Knight’s book are a good start, especially the 3rd one (0-260+ properties in 7 years), but there are heaps of others.

    1. As a rule of thumb you are right about land going up in price.
    – Apartments may give you better cashflow.
    – Apartments are often strata/community title (you have to deal with others parties and a different set of expenses)
    – But an apartment in a good area may go up a lot more than a house in a bad area.
    – Houses are often easier to rent out.
    – Houses have yards that need looking after.
    – I like houses with big yards that allow me to subdivide.
    – I also like run down houses for renos, a lot harder in apartments.

    2. That seems to depend a lot on the area that you are in. There is another current thread about property managing in WA. They charge through the nose.

    Look for this thread in help needed:
    How to negotiate flat fee for property management? by deedee

    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
    Member
    @l.a-aussie
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 1,488

    All the authors I mentioned in the earlier post are great. Between them there are about 20 books so that wiil keep you going for a while. I have read every one and they are great, as are the ones below;

    Add to that list ;
    Robert Kiyosaki, Peter Spann, “Think and Grow Rich” by Napoleon Hill,
    “Millionaire Next Door” by Stanley and Danko, “The Richest Man in Babylon” by George Clason.

    Cheers,
    Marc.
    [email protected]

    Profile photo of kylieskylies
    Member
    @kylies
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 24

    Hi
    In regards to units (if possible stay away from them) the reason is because you actually on own the space in between your walls..what appreciates is land vlaue which in turn is driven by supply & demand. With units you dont own any land.

    As a FHOG, in NSW you do have to occupy it for 12 months. In regards to sub leasing a room i dont think this would be a problem as you are occupying the property. Contact your accountant to clarify.
    If you are in NSW as a first home buyer you will also be eligible for govt stamp duty excemptions..so if you buy under $500k you may be eligible to claim full stamp duty costs which saves you many thousands of dollars.
    And therefore if you have 10% deposit it goes towards the property principle.
    If you have any further questions feel free to email me as I have helped many first home buyers into the market
    regards
    kylie
    Mortgage Consultant
    [email protected]

    Profile photo of millionsmillions
    Participant
    @millions
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 355

    My first property was a 2 br unit in Brisbane. I rented out one bedroom, furnished and lived in the other. I rang the ATO on a few occassions to find out if I needed to declare the income or if I could negative gear. Their response was that I could claim income and expenses or treat it as a personal nature and not claim. I chose to negative gear which meant when I sold I was up for capital gains on 50% of the property. CGT has changed since then (it used to be indexed with inflation) so at the time I’d estimated I wouldn’t have to pay CGT so this method worked for me. I found the unit worked well for me too as insurance and maintenance was looked after by body corporate. I didn’t have a huge mortgage and after a couple of years I had made extra repayments and reduced my loan from 25yrs to 9yrs. I think this could also be achieved if you had a 3bed house and rented out 2rooms. If I’d bought a house at the time the house would have gone up heaps more in value. I paid $95k for the unit in the boom and sold in the bust 5 years later for $104k. My neighbour bought at the same time for $105k and sold a few months before me for $95k. Buying and selling smartly is also important. Having a bit of decorating flair helps also. If your buying a unit make sure you check for maintenance issues outside the unit and how much money is in the sinking fund for repairs so they don’t come out of your own pocket. The owners of the unit before me had to pay towards painting and when I sold there were concerns about a retaining wall collapsing. I agree with the reading material already mentioned plus reno kings material, smarter property improvement, and Australian Property Development.

    Profile photo of AmandaBSAmandaBS
    Participant
    @amandabs
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 549

    Hi Sven,

    Welcome to the exciting world of property investing!! You seem to be off to a good start however your ability to succeed will increase with a good system in place.

    Here’s a simple 7 Step process to follow;
    Step 1 Set your ultimate goals
    Step 2 Prepare a budget
    Step 3 Read and develop an investment strategy
    Step 4 Build a strong team around you of property professionals
    Step 5 Research an area
    Step 6 Prepare a Feasibility study
    Step 7 Negotiate the deal and repeat.

    Its that easy!! Need more help then visit http://www.propertydivas.com.au where you’ll find more details.

    Happy investing,

    AmandaBS
    http://www.propertydivas.com.au
    FREE online Property Resources

    “It is better to be inconspicuously wealthy, than to be ostentatiously poor…”

    Profile photo of bridgebuffbridgebuff
    Participant
    @bridgebuff
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 189

    FHOG rules are dependant on the state you live in. EG in SA you have to move into the property within 12 month of purchase and live in it for at least 6 month.

    Check out http://www.firsthome.gov.au/ for further information.

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213
    Originally posted by sev3n:

    Hi guys,

    Sven.

    Hi Sven, here’s my take on your questions.

    1) It may be a good time now as prices are cheap. But they may drop further too. You just have to do research in your area, and make an educated guess.

    2) I think any unit is not a very good investment. Land is what goes up in value, buildings depreciate. So you need something with land content. These units also may be worse than your average unit is they are inner city and often small in size = difficult to get finance, = difficult to sell = low capital growth. Often have high management fees too.

    3) There are many calculations you can do, but one I like is rental yield. This is annual rent divided by purchase price. Properties in Sydney range from around 2-5%. That means you would be only getting 2-5% if you had cash equivalent and placed it in the bank. At the same time you have to pay around 7.3% in interest. Need something around a 9-10% yield to break even.

    4) I think Bridgebuff is correct in that you only have to live there for 6 months in the first 12 to get the grant. Renting out rooms is good, but if you declare it you may lose the CGT free status on the portion you rent out. This can be extremely valuable as time ticks over, so be careful in doing this.

    Terryw
    Discover Home Loans
    [email protected]
    Send an email to get my newsletter.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of Rent New TampaRent New Tampa
    Member
    @rent-new-tampa
    Join Date: 2007
    Post Count: 1

    I was browsing through this thread and noticed there was no mention of Capitalization Rate (Cap Rate), so I thought I would chime in on this for our newbie. Basically, the Cap Rate is the yearly rental income minus the regular expenses (including taxes, maintenance expenses and other expenses but NOT including mortgage expenses) divided by the purchase price. So, if you bought a home for $100,000 with a monthly rent of $1,000 and monthly expenses of $300, the cap rate would be 12*(1000-300)/100,000 = 8.4%. Note, this calculation does not factor in cash flow.

    The better long term investments have positive leverage, this is where the cap rate is larger then the mortgage rate. With positive leverage, you will build wealth even if the property does NOT appreciate in value. Most “investing” the past few years has revolved around building wealth with the property going up in value, but this is not the only way to build wealth, positive leverage could still lead to wealth building in a declining market. The larger investors that purchase commercial, retail and multifamily properties all focus heavily on cap rate and verifying the stated cap rate is correct.

    With my investments, I was not able to achieve positive leverage, but I was able to get close, having a ~5% cap rate and ~6% mortgage rate on average across 4 properties. Over time, the rent should increase which would put me into a positive leverage state if the expenses do not rise to quickly (taxes and insurance are the largest expenses). I am in position to hold all of these investments for a good period of time as they are cash flow neutral since I put 20% down on each.

    The biggest concern for me is always making sure I have a tenant. I became a Florida Real Estate and Mortgage Broker so I could earn commissions on all of my own transactions here in Tampa and help other do as I did. Now, I created a tampa property management website to better advertise the properties and further help investors maintain high occupancy rates. While many may feel property managers charge too much (sometimes they do), if a property manager is profecient at the most critical aspect of the job, maintaining high occupancy rates, they more then pay for themselves. There is nothing worse then an investment property sitting vacant for >3 months as this will diminish wealth unless the appreciation rate is outpacing the expenses (not likely in 2006 in the US, can’t speak for AUS though).

    Rob
    Rent New Tampa
    Florida Real Estate Broker
    Mortgage Broker

    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
    Member
    @l.a-aussie
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 1,488

    Good post Rent New Tampa.

    On that note;
    As a guide for the newbies who are maybe not sure how to crunch numbers on a propsective property, a basic rule of thumb I use with expenses on an I.P is to allow 20% out of the rent per year to cover all expenses. If the rent is such that I can lose 20% of it to costs, and still cover the mortgage, then I know I have a potential winner.

    I am a cashflow investor as you describe in your post – I want a good rent return and take the cap growth second. Of course, I want both, but I don’t want to be a slave to neg geared properties. I have a basic system for the numbers and if they don’t stack then I move on.

    The 20% covers management, repairs and maintenance, building/content/landlord’s/public liabilty insurance, water and council rates, body corp fees (if any) and 4 weeks’ vacancy.

    If you add to this the prospect of adding value through renos etc to increase the rent, then I can be fairly sure this will give me a positive return.

    I buy newer (post 1987) properties as a rule so the repair and maintenance figure is usually lower, thus the 20% figure is an over-estimation. I have one property that I have owned for 5 years which still has the same tenant and we have spent less than $100 on repairs, so we are well and truly under the 20% fugure with that one.

    On top of that, with the newer properties the depreciation is high, so the tax benefits are good which puts the icing on the cake.

    Cheers,
    Marc.
    [email protected]

    “we get sent lemons; it’s up to us to make lemonade”

    Profile photo of sev3nsev3n
    Member
    @sev3n
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 3

    Thank you for the replies guys.
    Still busy reading some books at the moment [biggrin]
    Just started reading on Steve’s 3rd book and doing a bit research on some of the terms in Property investing. Steve mentioned about trust in his book. Anyone care to enlighten me on what it means to setup a property trust? Do we have to own a company etc?

    Regards,

    Sven

    Profile photo of bridgebuffbridgebuff
    Participant
    @bridgebuff
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 189

    No you do not need a company.

    A trust is similar to a company in many ways but with a different set of rules. My accountant gave me two pages of pros and cons.

    Main disadvantages are the setup (about $1500) and running costs (about $1500/year) as well as you can only offset losses against future gains (that means you cannot negatve gear them to gain a tax advantage unless you get other money/divident into the trust as well).

    Main advantages are the asset protection and income streaming (eg if you make too much money it may be better to put the profit into your wife’s name, etc).

    If you are serious about this, you definetly want to invest in it.

    Talk to your accountant.

    Good Luck

    Joe

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