All Topics / Help Needed! / Heading to Bankruptcy :O(

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  • Profile photo of CazzaCazza
    Participant
    @cazza
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 12

    I have 5 properties on the market at the moment with no sales. I have reduced the properties quite significantly. (Even my own home). I am down to my last month’s worth of payments. I have refinanced them all to help me through this last year, hoping the market would stabilise. So in other words I have hit the wall. Do I just let the banks take the properties off me and go into bankruptcy? Or ????? I would appreciate any suggestions ???

    Cazza

    Profile photo of elkamelkam
    Member
    @elkam
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 722

    Hello Cazza

    Really sorry to hear that.

    I think if you want some real advise from some of the very savvy people on the forum you will have to give them more details especially about the locations (generally i.e Syd/rural/regional country town) and value of each property, the loans and your income. Are they residential or commercial properties? Are they rented out?

    If you do not want to do this on the open forum do you have a broker, financial advisor or good accountant you can talk with?

    This is not a problem you can solve without expert advise or out of dispair.

    I wish you much luck.
    Elka

    Profile photo of lifeXlifeX
    Member
    @lifex
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 651

    Instead of dropping the prices. You need to make it EASIER for someone to buy.

    Try offering a deal with some finance (ie: you vendor finance part of the sale to make it easier for them if they have no deposit. You offer a 2nd Mortgage)

    Or you could offer to discount their bank loan to 4 or 5 % for the first year. (just put some of the sale money in a bank account to pay the difference between their bank loan and the rate you offer) This would drop their initial weekly payments by a few hundred bucks a week.

    Try wrapping them.

    Or you could do a rent to buy deal.

    You could even try HIRING a wrapper or savvy investor (many on this site) to set up these deals for you.

    Can you describe your situation in more detail?

    gotta go,,,,, good luck!

    [bulb][biggrin][bulb]


    Live, Learn and Grow

    Lifexperience

    Profile photo of HutchHutch
    Participant
    @hutch
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 137

    hi cazza
    Is it possible to supply more information on the what/where/how? of these properties? Just so we can best part some advice to you?
    hutch

    Profile photo of grossrealisationgrossrealisation
    Member
    @grossrealisation
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 1,031

    hi Cazza
    I had a lady post some time ago that she was having her lender reposses her house at beverly hills here in sydney
    and that she had no way out
    I met with her and explain a few options and she went back and refinanced with a lender and haven’t heard from her since she probably will read this post.
    I will offer the same to you not sure of the state you are in
    this is not a open the flood gates and I will look at every investor in Australia and tell them what I think and see how it can be restructured.
    I would look at not dropping the property price but would look at vendor finance back and get some one to buy the properties and reduce debt levels.
    three things you need to do
    1. put a plan together get the largest lender to help with this as they have the most loss( apart from you) they will organise the interest also.
    you need a business plan and they can do this for you
    2.get rid of the highest debt or cost first
    3. structure so you get rid of the majority of the debt
    if you leave 20% vendor finance in the deal and you get rid of the rest to some one you have got rid of 80% of the loss and at say 200k each thats 1mil in loans and if you get rid of 80% thats down to 200k and the vendor finance at say 5% interest
    the bank on my calc is behind by 6k per year.
    4.So in other words I have hit the wall. Do I just let the banks take the properties off me and go into bankruptcy
    never think this the wall is some thing to get over, you just need the help to do it, the banks don’t just take property they want to help you out just as much as you, they want there money back and bankruptcy is the last resort and from me looking from here thats not at this stage at this time.
    then main thing is to think of the state you are in as a battle
    and its a battle you need to win and to do that you need to rally the troops
    and those troops are your lender( they must have some faith at some stage or they wouldn’t have lent you the money) your accounant and I dare say people here
    don’t pm me here as I don’t float thru that often send me an email to ultraclean with what state you are in and I will see how I can help but do the above first and I don’t think you will need my help.

    here to help
    If you want to get involved in some of the projects I’m involved in email to [email protected]
    currently looking for up front money at 15% p/a pm me if you wish

    Profile photo of lifeXlifeX
    Member
    @lifex
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 651

    why do people post here of their dire circumstance. Request help and then vanish off the face of the earth.

    So many people ready and able to assist and support and ……. vanish??

    Alien abduction WTF?


    Live, Learn and Grow

    Lifexperience

    Profile photo of GelFGelF
    Member
    @gelf
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 17

    …if you do nothing then that is what you are left with.

    …Only 1 Month of payments left! surely must have seen this comming…

    …perhaps thought that someone would *give* an easy way out…(tha bank did)

    Profile photo of ckrichardtanckrichardtan
    Participant
    @ckrichardtan
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 2

    It’s interesting to understand why he end up in such dire situation. Is he stretching himself too far without safety net? How could the bank keep giving the loan if the sums don;t add up? Can members enlighten me?

    Profile photo of Luke TaylorLuke Taylor
    Participant
    @world-changer
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 415

    The banks will quite easily loan u the money.It is not hard to be in front one day then realising u cant keep up with the payments.Possibly the tenants moved out on a few of them for example and they were already maxed out on payments.

    Its important to remember to take responsability when loaning money and have a strategy ready to put into action(early) for when something goes wrong,otherwise u can lose the lot.
    That is dissapointing as they must have done something right and worked hard to be able to control 5 propertys in the first place.

    We’ve got 70 yrs on planet earth,Lets make the most of every day!

    Luke Taylor | Hope Property Investing
    http://hopepropertyinvesting.com
    Email Me

    Property Support,Strategist and Buyers Agent

    Profile photo of gmh454gmh454
    Member
    @gmh454
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 537
    Originally posted by grossrealisation:

    4.So in other words I have hit the wall. Do I just let the banks take the properties off me and go into bankruptcy
    never think this the wall is some thing to get over, you just need the help to do it, the banks don’t just take property they want to help you out just as much as you, they want there money back and bankruptcy is the last resort and from me looking from here thats not at this stage at this time.

    Sorry Gross but my experience with banks is this

    once it winds up in the chase section the guy who is chasing wants it off his desk and closed before it gets any worse and he can be blamed for a bad situation getting worse under his stewardship.

    He will wrap it and pack it as quick as he can.

    Nothing personal, business is business.

    have been in and around liquidators for a while, and your local manage may try to help you to save his butt, but once in collections, watch out

    Profile photo of grossrealisationgrossrealisation
    Member
    @grossrealisation
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 1,031

    hi all
    couple of things.
    first gmh454.
    once it winds up in the chase section the guy who is chasing wants it off his desk and closed before it gets any worse and he can be blamed for a bad situation getting worse under his stewardship.
    this maybe the case that you have dealt with but is not with the ones that I have dealt with most lender inc the big four want to get out of these problems and if that includes helping to do it they will.
    for a bnk its not cheap to chase a loan defaulter and someone has to sign his name to a doc so they will go out if there way to help if you give them a proper formulated business plan of how you are going to get out of your debt.
    I am talking with a couple at this moment an=bout a couple of commercials that are abit larger then this amount and they do wish to cap interest etc to get out of the problem.
    there is a couple of thing that need to be understood a problem like this first goes to adminisration and then liquidation and if this is in liquidation then yes it is very hard to get it back from there.
    you need tyo talk to the lender before liquidation and then you can get a deal together.
    the other issue is how do lenders get into this state for me is simple.
    greed
    the margins have been squeezed with lenders as there loan books are squashed by the rams and aussie’s of this world so they lend on products that they shouldn’t and to people the shouldn’t.
    and just like the casino if you play the higher risk games your profit goes up but so does your exposure to risk and thats what this is.
    this is not an attack at this poster but is a general attack just because a person has 5 or ten posi properties all over the country doesn’t automatically mean they know what they are doing it means they have found posi properties.
    when every you are investing you must know
    your risk
    your profit or potential profit
    your cash flow
    and most important if this goes pear shaped your exit structure.
    I have spoken to people that have 30 and 40 houses and they tell me they don’t know what they are doing except just keep buying posi property
    thats great but if a problem occurs that may well unravell to a heap of problems.
    and all that good work comes tumbling down.
    its not hard to buy property you could buy some in your dogs name, what is hard is keeping it
    holding and profitting from it.

    here to help
    If you want to get involved in some of the projects I’m involved in email to [email protected]
    currently looking for up front money at 15% p/a pm me if you wish

    Profile photo of CazzaCazza
    Participant
    @cazza
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 12

    New to this asking for people’s help online, so please pardon my lack of manners.
    “Just a Babe in the Woods”.

    Originally posted by lifeX:

    why do people post here of their dire circumstance. Request help and then vanish off the face of the earth.

    So many people ready and able to assist and support and ……. vanish??

    Alien abduction WTF?


    Live, Learn and Grow

    Lifexperience

    Cazza

    Profile photo of CazzaCazza
    Participant
    @cazza
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 12

    Unit in Reservoir Vic. Purchased $190K now on sale for around $170K. (Been on the market for about a year). Rented for $170 pw.

    2 b/r Unit in Homebush Bay NSW, fully furnished and with a corporate leasing agent. When it is let it brings in $600 – $700 pw.
    Owe $380K on the market for $530K but will accept $499K.

    Brick 3 b/r home in Central Coast NSW owe $290K on sale for $249K. Rented for $220 pw. (On the market for a year also).

    5 b/r home in Wentworthville NSW owe $360K on sale for $499K. Rented at $350 pw.

    3 b/r home in Lake Macquarie NSW (Mine) owe $250K . On sale for $299K (My private home).

    Just sold fully furnished 2 b/r unit Homebush Bay NSW – loss of $50K

    Although there is some capital left, the rent goes nowhere near covering the costs of the interests etc etc etc about $6K short each month.

    It was 2 wrap deals that got me into trouble with a very shonky lot in Victoria. No one’s fault but my own.

    Just a Babe in the Woods.

    ps. I don’t mind putting the info up here.

    Originally posted by lifeX:

    Instead of dropping the prices. You need to make it EASIER for someone to buy.

    Try offering a deal with some finance (ie: you vendor finance part of the sale to make it easier for them if they have no deposit. You offer a 2nd Mortgage)

    Or you could offer to discount their bank loan to 4 or 5 % for the first year. (just put some of the sale money in a bank account to pay the difference between their bank loan and the rate you offer) This would drop their initial weekly payments by a few hundred bucks a week.

    Try wrapping them.

    Or you could do a rent to buy deal.

    You could even try HIRING a wrapper or savvy investor (many on this site) to set up these deals for you.

    Can you describe your situation in more detail?

    gotta go,,,,, good luck!

    [bulb][biggrin][bulb]


    Live, Learn and Grow

    Lifexperience

    Cazza

    Profile photo of CazzaCazza
    Participant
    @cazza
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 12

    Thanks Elka, I have posted some further details in a reply to one of the responses.

    You are right I cannot do this without expert advice, of which I don’t have any. How do I get in touch with these “savvy” people you speak of.

    Just a Babe in the Woods.

    Cazza

    Originally posted by elkam:

    Hello Cazza

    Really sorry to hear that.

    I think if you want some real advise from some of the very savvy people on the forum you will have to give them more details especially about the locations (generally i.e Syd/rural/regional country town) and value of each property, the loans and your income. Are they residential or commercial properties? Are they rented out?

    If you do not want to do this on the open forum do you have a broker, financial advisor or good accountant you can talk with?

    This is not a problem you can solve without expert advise or out of dispair.

    I wish you much luck.
    Elka

    Cazza

    Profile photo of CazzaCazza
    Participant
    @cazza
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 12

    Thanks to everyone for posting a reply. I would like to respond to each of you individually, but not sure I’m doing it right. It looks like I need to make an appointment with my banks in the first instance and see if we can work something out.

    I have put further details in relation to my assets in a response to one of the replies however.

    Cazza

    Cazza

    Profile photo of CazzaCazza
    Participant
    @cazza
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 12

    Yes, thought I had done all the right things, however you have to be able to hold in the bad times as with all investing.

    Cazza

    Originally posted by World Changer:

    The banks will quite easily loan u the money.It is not hard to be in front one day then realising u cant keep up with the payments.Possibly the tenants moved out on a few of them for example and they were already maxed out on payments.

    Its important to remember to take responsability when loaning money and have a strategy ready to put into action(early) for when something goes wrong,otherwise u can lose the lot.
    That is dissapointing as they must have done something right and worked hard to be able to control 5 propertys in the first place.

    We’ve got 70 yrs on planet earth,Lets make the most of every day!

    Cazza

    Profile photo of CazzaCazza
    Participant
    @cazza
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 12

    Posi properties, oh my wouldn’t I love that! Still love real estate. If I can get myself out of this mess, then I will be looking to downsize to exactly that. Unfortunately mine are now all negative after refinancing etc.

    Thank you for posting your reply.

    Cazza

    Originally posted by grossrealisation:

    hi all
    couple of things.
    first gmh454.
    once it winds up in the chase section the guy who is chasing wants it off his desk and closed before it gets any worse and he can be blamed for a bad situation getting worse under his stewardship.
    this maybe the case that you have dealt with but is not with the ones that I have dealt with most lender inc the big four want to get out of these problems and if that includes helping to do it they will.
    for a bnk its not cheap to chase a loan defaulter and someone has to sign his name to a doc so they will go out if there way to help if you give them a proper formulated business plan of how you are going to get out of your debt.
    I am talking with a couple at this moment an=bout a couple of commercials that are abit larger then this amount and they do wish to cap interest etc to get out of the problem.
    there is a couple of thing that need to be understood a problem like this first goes to adminisration and then liquidation and if this is in liquidation then yes it is very hard to get it back from there.
    you need tyo talk to the lender before liquidation and then you can get a deal together.
    the other issue is how do lenders get into this state for me is simple.
    greed
    the margins have been squeezed with lenders as there loan books are squashed by the rams and aussie’s of this world so they lend on products that they shouldn’t and to people the shouldn’t.
    and just like the casino if you play the higher risk games your profit goes up but so does your exposure to risk and thats what this is.
    this is not an attack at this poster but is a general attack just because a person has 5 or ten posi properties all over the country doesn’t automatically mean they know what they are doing it means they have found posi properties.
    when every you are investing you must know
    your risk
    your profit or potential profit
    your cash flow
    and most important if this goes pear shaped your exit structure.
    I have spoken to people that have 30 and 40 houses and they tell me they don’t know what they are doing except just keep buying posi property
    thats great but if a problem occurs that may well unravell to a heap of problems.
    and all that good work comes tumbling down.
    its not hard to buy property you could buy some in your dogs name, what is hard is keeping it
    holding and profitting from it.

    here to help
    If you want to get involved in some of the projects I’m involved in email to [email protected]
    currently looking for up front money at 15% p/a pm me if you wish

    Cazza

    Profile photo of elkamelkam
    Member
    @elkam
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 722

    Hello Cazza

    I’m anything but a property guru and I hope that someone who is will answer with some constuctive suggestions.

    I assume your last loan restructuring was to make all your loans interest only?

    I wondered if your unit in Reservoir may be suitable for student accomodation. i.e not too far from La trobe uni or not too far from Plenty Rd. for transport to La Trobe. It may be possible to get 3 rooms out of a 2 BR unit by seperating out some of the lounge room givin 3 rooms to 1 bathroom which is OK. I don’t know but it’s possible that your agent in the area does student accomodation management as it’s quite a large market in the area I believe. If not him then maybe someone else there. I think each room rents for about $135 -145 depending on size. Even with just 2 students you should be able to get nearly double the rent your getting now. It may be worth giving your agent a call and even a couple more in the area.

    You obviously need to sell at least 2 properties to cut down your loans. Homebush Bay and Wentworth seem like the obvious choice.

    I just reread the post from Grossrealization (page 1 of this thread) and it’s all good advise and leaving something in the deals as he suggests may be just the thing needed to get some of your properties sold and at better than bargain basement prices.

    As you said in one of your posts above. First see your bank manager for that business plan GR is talking about.

    Keep us posted please and good luck. [smiling]

    Elka

    Profile photo of Paul DobsonPaul Dobson
    Participant
    @pauldobson
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 1,196

    Hi Cazza

    Karen and I recently completed a negative2positive Joint Venture wrap on the central coast. The property had been on the market for months without any offers. Now it’s been sold for well above what our JV partners were asking and it’s making positive cash flow for them each month.

    We are also in the process of doing the same thing for another client who was in default, in Brisbane

    Drop me a line and we’ll see if we can help.

    All the best, Paul

    Paul & Karen Dobson
    negative2positive
    Turn your negatively geared property into positive cashflow.
    Phone: (02) 4984 9540

    Talk to us about Wrap Training Joint Ventures.

    Paul Dobson | Vendor Finance Institute
    http://www.vendorfinanceinstitute.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    An alternative way to finance your home.

    Profile photo of CazzaCazza
    Participant
    @cazza
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 12

    Thanks Elka, some good advice I will keep you posted as to how it goes.

    Cheers
    Cazza

    Originally posted by elkam:

    Hello Cazza

    I’m anything but a property guru and I hope that someone who is will answer with some constuctive suggestions.

    I assume your last loan restructuring was to make all your loans interest only?

    I wondered if your unit in Reservoir may be suitable for student accomodation. i.e not too far from La trobe uni or not too far from Plenty Rd. for transport to La Trobe. It may be possible to get 3 rooms out of a 2 BR unit by seperating out some of the lounge room givin 3 rooms to 1 bathroom which is OK. I don’t know but it’s possible that your agent in the area does student accomodation management as it’s quite a large market in the area I believe. If not him then maybe someone else there. I think each room rents for about $135 -145 depending on size. Even with just 2 students you should be able to get nearly double the rent your getting now. It may be worth giving your agent a call and even a couple more in the area.

    You obviously need to sell at least 2 properties to cut down your loans. Homebush Bay and Wentworth seem like the obvious choice.

    I just reread the post from Grossrealization (page 1 of this thread) and it’s all good advise and leaving something in the deals as he suggests may be just the thing needed to get some of your properties sold and at better than bargain basement prices.

    As you said in one of your posts above. First see your bank manager for that business plan GR is talking about.

    Keep us posted please and good luck. [smiling]

    Elka

    Cazza

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