I want to find out about how to buy property in trusts with corporate trustees but do it in such a way that no-one can do searches etc and find your name anywhere in control of assets. I’ve heard of this concept mentioned as “Stealth Investing”.
Does anyone know where I can find out more information on this?
As a Director of a Pty Ltd Company you are required to state your name, age and address.
This information is therefore available to anyone who carries out a Company SearchCheers Richard
Ph: 07 3720 1888
[email protected]
http://www.yourstatefinance.comSpecialising in US & IP finance.
Richard Taylor | Australia's leading private lender
hi vexil
I understand the question but it not a short answer.
and if you go down this little alleyway you open up a large pandora’s box of problems.
In short you use an overseas company that won’t giveout the names of the directors is usefull for some business dealing but not much good for real estate as no lender will lend you a red razoo.
In some ways its good to hide depending on the deal but if credit is involved at all then forget this track.
Not heard it called stealth business I just call it normal busines just a different vehicle for a different purpose sometimes you need to use very unusual tools to get a job done.here to help
If you want to get involved in some of the projects I’m involved in email to [email protected]Thanks for your reply grossrealization. Having an overseas company sounds like a possibility, but how sure are you that the bank wont lend money to the trust in this situation? I would love to hear of someone who has tried something like this. I know this is opening pandoras box, but there might be something to learn here.
From my perspective, the best asset protection is having no-one know that you own/control anything.
Advancen Multimedia make GREAT websites! http://www.advancen.com
It is difficult to get finance with an International Business Company (IBC).
There are two types of IBC’s. Companies Limited by Shares(CLS), and Companies Limited by Guarantees(CLG). A CLG is possibly better for what you want. You will need a Director, a CLG, 2 members , and you would be the Appointer.
As Appointer, you can suggest what the CLG would do but you can not tell the director what to do. You can only tell them to wind up the CLG but even then there is no way to tell the director what to do with your money.
You can not be the director as this would require you to let the ATO know.
You will need the country to be a tax haven. Then after all this you will need to get the money back to Aus somehow, and if you are caught, Part IVa Tax Avoidence. Hairy Boyfriend time in jail.
Not worth it for me as there is some great structures in Aus.
This is a brief overview and I hope it helps.
Costs about $3500 and $3000 per year.I can refer you if you want to talk to someone about this.
CATA
Asset Protection Specialist
[email protected]Vexil,
What you want to use is called a “Bare Trust”. With a Bare Trust a Beneficiary actually has control over the Trustee. So how people use this is they get a friend to sign the sales contract for a property as the Trustee. You as beneficiary then not only control the whole thing but benefit from the asset as well. The trustee has no claim to the assets at all and your name is not recorded anywhere…
Jason.Thanks Cata – thats interesting stuff. Unfortunately I’m not trying to avoid paying tax here – I just don’t want my name on anything maybe that’s the unfortunate side effect
Jscott – I’ve heard people mention bare trusts before. Do you know of a book or document I could read about them. Dale Gatherum-Goss’s book Trust Magic doesn’t mention them at all.
Cheers,
Dominic.Advancen Multimedia make GREAT websites! http://www.advancen.com
If someone does a search on you, it will list you as a benificary of a bare trust. Therefor your name will appear on an asset search.
CATA
Asset Protection Specialist
[email protected]Hi all
The forthcoming comments are not mine…I take no responsibilty for them…they are ficticious rubbish.
You don’t want to be found hey! An IBC is a good way…but difficult to get finance. Hey…if you’ve got such a big tax bill maybe you have enough money to buy your own bank and write your own mortgages. An internation restricted banking licence, one that can do the magic of fractional reserve banking and therefore lend money to yourself at whatever interest rate you want to charge yourself – (like 0.00% for instance) I’ve heard can be purchased for only $500k US in the Bahamas etc. There’s many many rules regs…most of which I have no idea about…but if your into big numbers your company/bank would employ ppl who do know. Still, you have to meet the 8% reserve rule and I’ve heard the application fees are many and your only allowed to lend to the nominated few companies / people listed on the licence…but who cares…if your doing big BIG numbers then it’s the cost of money that really matters most to the profitability of the deal. Anyway…never gunna happen…but nice to dream.
ok..back to my wine. Merly Clistmas.[blink]
Ben
I just don’t want my name on anythingWhy not ??
hi all
first dazzling there are lots of times that you would use a ??????
hi dazzling couldn’t be bothered to word check it so deleted it
here to help
If you want to get involved in some of the projects I’m involved in email to [email protected]Hey grossy…it’s pretty late over there in Australia…especially NSW…are you having one of those big nights on that single malt scotch again ?? [sleepyanim] [sick3]
Put the lid back on that bottle and go to bed matey. See you in the morning when your fingers are working a bit better. [biggrin]
Originally posted by Ben Morris:The forthcoming comments are not mine…I take no responsibilty for them…they are ficticious rubbish.
You forgot …risky, and “You can’t do that” ,and “No there is not anyway to move your money arround without someone tracking it”…
But that is all ficticious rubbish also.
[whistle]CATA
Asset Protection Specialist
[email protected]Ok from the information I’ve discovered so far, Bare Trusts seem to be a way to keep things semi-private but Cata you say that someone can do a search to find you listed as a beneficiary. How? Is this search available to the public? Or is it only the tax office that knows this information?
That said, this topic has brought up an interest of mine – Fractional Reserve Banking. And how I one day want to own my own bank.
A very close friend of mine knows a few rich Indonesion associates. She says that they each owned a few banks, and that anyone whos anybody in Indonesia owns banks. I was pretty shocked to hear this. She also suggested that this was one of the causes of the Asian Financial Crisis. I would love to find out more information on this. If these Indonesians can create money out of thin air why can’t we?
By the way if you want to find out a bit more about Fractional Reserve Banking, I have a DVD called “The Money Masters” which has a history of banking. I’m happy to lend it to anyone if they want to email me their address.
Advancen Multimedia make GREAT websites! http://www.advancen.com
Listing yourself as a benificiary will leave a paper trail that a decent Private Dective will find.
The DVD you refer to, is it the one about the Reserve Banks being privatly owned?
CATA
Asset Protection Specialist
[email protected]Originally posted by Cata:The DVD you refer to, is it the one about the Reserve Banks being privatly owned?
Yep – A history of the US Federal Reserve, and how it’s privately owned. It also says that the World Bank is privately owned too. I don’t know how accurate it is but it’s interesting stuff, in particular it goes into the history of fractional reserve banking.
What did you think of it?
Advancen Multimedia make GREAT websites! http://www.advancen.com
It was interesting, but you can call me a skeptic. I’m sure that it has some truths but I have done no research myself.
A bit of an eye opener though.
CATA
Asset Protection Specialist
[email protected]Originally posted by Cata:If someone does a search on you, it will list you as a benificary of a bare trust. Therefor your name will appear on an asset search.
CATA
Asset Protection Specialist
[email protected]Cata – how can someone do a search on a trust? Trust deeds are not stored anywhere or registered anywhere. Sometime people lodge copies at the Land Titles Office, but this doesn’t appear to be a requirement. The Office of State Revenue doesn’t keep a copy, they just stamp the deed and hand it back to you.
Terryw
Discover Home Loans
Parramatta
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Hi
With a bare trust, I beleive a short document is signed and this is kept. It is not needed to be lodged anywhere. However, at tax time, it is suppsoed to be the beneficial owner who declares the income on their tax return. So if this is an investment property, then that may leave a paper trail.
Other problems include:
– what happens if the trustee is sued and you cannot prove they only own the property as trustee for you?
– what happens if the trustee turns against you?
– what about finance? The trustee would have to obtain it, and tell the bank about the trust or possibly lie to get finance.Terryw
Discover Home Loans
Parramatta
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Sign up to my mailing list.
Just send me a blank email, with “subscribe†in subject line.Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
Originally posted by Terryw:Quote:Originally posted byCata – how can someone do a search on a trust? Trust deeds are not stored anywhere or registered anywhere. Sometime people lodge copies at the Land Titles Office, but this doesn’t appear to be a requirement. The Office of State Revenue doesn’t keep a copy, they just stamp the deed and hand it back to you.
Not the trust terry, but you. There will be some income (benifits) comming your way which will leave a paper trail. I do not know how the private investigators do it, but it is amazing how much info you can get in a day for $300.
Scary really.
CATA
Asset Protection Specialist
[email protected]
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