All Topics / Legal & Accounting / Converting non deductible debt into deductible

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  • Profile photo of HugoHugo
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    @hugo
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 19

    I read this post from Terryw. Has anyone ever done this? and what are the costs?

    Another option is selling half of your IP to your partner. She could borrow to do this and the funds released could be paid off your PPOR. This would save you a bit in real estate fees etc, and you would get to keep the IP while converting non deductible debt into deductible. There may even be stamp duty exemptions.

    Terryw
    Discover Home Loans
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    North Sydney
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    Profile photo of surreyhughes19905surreyhughes19905
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    @surreyhughes19905
    Join Date: 2003
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    Not being a tax professional at I will add my experience in reading tax law for my own uses…

    This sounds like a strategy you would want some serious pro help on to check it’s legality. What you are essentially doing in this situation is borrowing against the equity in an IP to pay down your PPOR and claim tax deductions.

    The old trick was to refinance your PPOR to a split loan to buy an IP and claim all the interest on the IP side of the loan thus effectively turning your PPOR loan into an investment loan. Well the tax office isn’t quite as thick as we’d like it to be :) The fact that you sell your IP (or part of it) to your partner / spouse doesn’t go unnoticed as you are effectively still in control of the property and all you’re trying to do is claim your PPOR loan as a tax deduction.

    Of course, since gay marriage is not recognised would this mean that gay couples gain the advantage that, though they are as “together” as a married couple, they are not considered so under law? Could they therefore take advantage of this failure to recognise partnership to shuffle debt to a more tax favourable situation?

    hmmm. Might that be a way to introduce change? Hit them in the hip pocket [biggrin]

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    Surrey

    Another option could be to sell to your trust. Of course the purpose of doing this would be mainly for asset protection, not tax reasons. These are only a side effect.

    If you are going to do something like this, check with your accountant.

    Terryw
    Discover Home Loans
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    North Sydney
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    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of HugoHugo
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    @hugo
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    Surrey,

    What you said makes sense. Maybe I should sell the whole IP to her.

    Terry,

    Could you explain how a trust works?

    Profile photo of DazzlingDazzling
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    @dazzling
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    We’ve done this twice…works wonders.

    We’ve paid stamp duty on both occassions, but hey – compared to the advantages..it’s peanuts.

    Just paid out our PPOR loan 4 weeks ago and loaded up one of our IP’s by selling 60% to the wife…all lawful and above board – with both the accountants and lawyers blessing (and our double checking of the advice of course)…after all, we are responsible for everything – not the highly paid advisers.

    Cheers,

    Dazzling

    “No point having a cake if you can’t eat it.”

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Hugo

    by selling to your own discretionary trust you will enable the loan to be increased and the proceeds to be used at your pleasure!!. in effect it is like selling to a different person/entity. The new entitly (may still be yourself as trustee) obtains a loan to buy at market value. The trust uses this money to buy the property, and the proceeds of the sale go to paying out existing loans and the left over to your bank account. This money can then be used to pay down your new home loan, and the trust can claim the full interest on the loan (but only against other trust income).

    Terryw
    Discover Home Loans
    Mortgage Broker
    North Sydney
    [email protected]

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of HugoHugo
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    @hugo
    Join Date: 2005
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    Terry,

    So I sell the home I now own to my own discretionary trust which I am the trustee.

    The trust obtains a loan for say $300,000 and pays this money to me, which I use to pay off my new PPOR.

    The trust now has to pay tax on the $13,000 in rent its earning from the property.

    However the trust is paying $20,000 in interest on the $300,000 loan.

    I the trustee have to give the trust the $7000 difference to pay the interest.

    The trust and I the trustee have made a $7000 loss.

    Say I earn $63,000 a year. Can I use this $7000 to reduce my taxable income to $56,000?

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    The trust has made a loss, not you. If you give the short fall to the trust, it is a gift and you cannot claim that, or interest on money borrowed to gift.

    Your trust would need other income to offset this loss, or to carry it forward.

    If you were using a hybrid trust, there may be ways around this.

    Terryw
    Discover Home Loans
    Mortgage Broker
    North Sydney
    [email protected]

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of HugoHugo
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    @hugo
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    Thanks for all the help everyone.

    One last question

    If the trust has earned $13,000 in rent but has paid $20,000 in interest,the trust wont have to pay any tax on the $13,000.

    If I the trustee want to get my hands on the $13,000, will I have to pay 30% tax on it?

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Hugo

    There won’t be $13,000 cause the trust will have to pay the $20,000 in interest, so there would be a $7,000 loss.

    Terryw
    Discover Home Loans
    Mortgage Broker
    North Sydney
    [email protected]

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of HugoHugo
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    @hugo
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 19

    Terry good point!

    What I meant to say was if the trust has made a profit of $13,000,(no loan ,no interest to pay)

    Will tax only be applicable at 30% if I the trustee want to access that money?

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Hugo

    If after all expenses your trust had $13,000 profit, this would need to be distributed to beneficiaries who would then add this to their other income and pay tax at the normal rates. If you had two adult children who were not working, then you could probably distribute $6000 to each and they would pay no tax. You could then distribute the remaining $1000 to yourself (you may have to pay 48% tax depending on your income) or you could distrbiute to your company and the company would pay 30% tax, or you could distribute to your uncle’s cousin’s mother’s brother’s adopted grandchildren etc etc

    Terryw
    Discover Home Loans
    Mortgage Broker
    North Sydney
    [email protected]

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of HugoHugo
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    @hugo
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    Profile photo of DazzlingDazzling
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    @dazzling
    Join Date: 2005
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    Terry,

    But then wouldn’t the uncle’s cousin’s mother’s brother’s adopted grandchildren be up for 66% children’s tax ???? LOL [biggrin]

    Cheers,

    Dazzling

    “No point having a cake if you can’t eat it.”

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    Dazzling. yes, normally they would, but these are adult children!

    Terryw
    Discover Home Loans
    Mortgage Broker
    North Sydney
    [email protected]

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

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