All Topics / Help Needed! / Guide me if I am right please

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  • Profile photo of padmaa23108padmaa23108
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    @padmaa23108
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 41

    [confused2]
    Hi all
    I am new to this forum. I have read Steve’s books and am very inspired in doing something about our property investing.
    We live in a 5 bedroom duplex. The front house is a 3 bedroom house which was tenanted until saturday. It is now vacant and needs some cosmetic work to be done.
    We are thinking of moving out of our house to a rented place and rent both these houses to uni students which will maximise the positive cashflow. Is it a good strategy, renting elsewhere instead of living in your own house? Has anyone got any experience in renting houses to students on a per room basis with common shared areas of thehouse? What are the legalities of this? How risky is it to rent to students?
    If we rented to students as opposed to families, our rental income would double.
    Any suggestions?
    We have another 3 bedroom house which we bought in Sep 2002. It appreciated in value by about 50% since we bought,but the cashflow is -ve. We have put it on the market to realise the capital gain and invest elsewhere +ve using Steve’s strategy of multiplication by division. Is this the right move?
    Please help
    Padma

    Profile photo of MonopolyMonopoly
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    Originally posted by padmaa23108:

    We have another 3 bedroom house which we bought in Sep 2002. It appreciated in value by about 50% since we bought,but the cashflow is -ve. We have put it on the market to realise the capital gain and invest elsewhere +ve using Steve’s strategy of multiplication by division. Is this the right move?
    Please help
    Padma

    If you are prepared to sell off an asset which has grown 50% in just 2 years, IMO you’re a fool!!! Even if the cashflow is not positive, the growth is fantastic!!!

    But hey, what can I say??? Welcome to the “cashflow is king” fan club!!! You are among friends here in this place, and should fit in perfectly, with other like minded people share the same “CG is not that important, cashflow rules” view!!!

    Enjoy…..[grin]

    Jo

    P.S. I didn’t answer the first part of your question, because I was so engrossed by the part which I did reply to. Hence, as far as student accomm. is concerned try someone like MortgageHunter (Simon) who runs such an establishment and/or do a search in here or in Somersoft (another forum) under “student accommodation”; there is plenty of info on this topic that should prove useful. [biggrin]

    Profile photo of erratikerratik
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    Originally posted by Monopoly:If you are prepared to sell off an asset which has grown 50% in just 2 years, IMO you’re a fool!!! Even if the cashflow is not positive, the growth is fantastic!!!

    not sure if that was sarcasm, but my response would be something along the lines of “it depends on what your investing goal is”. if it’s +cf that you’re after, then it’s definitely worth considering renting the place out. Nothing wrong with having both +cf and +ve CG ;)

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    I too wouldn’t sell such a good asset. Use the equity if you wish to invest.

    Terryw
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    Profile photo of MonopolyMonopoly
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    Originally posted by eRRaTiK:

    not sure if that was sarcasm, but my response would be something along the lines of “it depends on what your investing goal is”. if it’s +cf that you’re after, then it’s definitely worth considering renting the place out. Nothing wrong with having both +cf and +ve CG ;)

    eRRaTik,

    Nope no sarcasm intended, strange for me, but true. My comment was very much “matter of fact” and I stand strong that if ANYONE who achieves that kind of CG (50%) in 2 years, should seriously consider holding such an asset. I am by no means, anti-cashflow positive, on the contrary, all my IPs are cashlow positive HOWEVER to sell any asset which accelerates at that rate is pure STUPIDITY plain and simple!!!! No hidden message, no sarcasm….FACT!!!

    If you think that’s harsh, then you are not interested or know very little about wealth creation; obviously you are more focussed on short term monetary gratification, and albeit, it has its merits, will not sustain wealth in the long term.

    eRRaTik, I agree that renting would be a better option, however I believe Padma stated that they had “put it on the market” hence my response was addressing the SALE issue.

    As a note of interest, eRRaTik, I have been investing for almost the same number of years you have been alive (I took a peek at your profile), but thanks for the investing tip anyway!!! (Oh and FYI…..that WAS sarcasm)!!! [biggrin]

    Jo

    Profile photo of DerekDerek
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    Hi Padma,

    Certainly agree with Jo and Terry – why sell an appreciating asset.

    Consider, in real $, how many cashflow positive properties you would need to own to acquire the same $ value in rent as you have achieved in growth. Then consider the power of comppounding growth and as far as I am concerned the right option is a no-brainer.

    A better option, as Terry has suggested, is to use the equity for other assets.

    We own a standard three bed unit we rent to o/seas students, effectively on a room by room basis. We have furnished it as we are targetting the o/seas market and achieved 35% increase in rent when we furnished the place. I find o/seas students are diligent and studious and as such we have had no out of the ordinary maintenance issues to attend to.

    Careful management of leases means we have now structure our lease to align with the start of the academic year – thereby ensuring our property only becomes vacant when there are lots of students looking for residences.

    Derek
    [email protected]

    Property Investment Support Available. Ongoing and never stopping. PM welcome.

    Profile photo of MonopolyMonopoly
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    Thought you’d put your 2c worth in Derek!!! [biggrin]
    Always a pleasure hearing from posters such as yourself…..always the voice of reason and so diplomatic……sheesh!!! [blush2]

    Jo

    Profile photo of DerekDerek
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    Originally posted by Monopoly:

    ….always the voice of reason and so diplomatic.

    If only I could translate that into the work environment.

    Derek
    [email protected]

    Property Investment Support Available. Ongoing and never stopping. PM welcome.

    Profile photo of clintdbclintdb
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    Hi padmaa23108,
    I’m not going to answer your questions about whether to hold or sell as they are the sort of things I’m asking of myself right now. If I come up with an answer I’ll let you know though :-)

    With regards to renting to students;
    1) Follow Derek’s advice – time your rental period.
    2) Consider not trying to lease individual rooms. Advertise a “5 separate room residence with common facilites….” and let a group of friends lease the whole place and split it up amongst themselves. If they only have 4 people they may still take it on in the hope they’ll pick up a 5th early in the semester. In the meantime, it’s only 25% more to pay each. You get the picture. Let someone else worry about renting the last room rather than yourself :-)
    This theory does not work so well on larger groups (10 etc), but I remember from my own uni days (not that long ago) when friends of mine would rent out a whole house with 4-8 people contributing to the rent. I have a bunch of climbing friends in Brisbane who are still doing exactly that.
    3) Students are not a lot different to other people. There are good ones and bad ones, good payers and bad payers. Just do you background checks as thoroughly as possible and maybe see if you can find out if their parents have some money to help out their little darlings if times get tough for them!

    Regards,
    Clint

    Profile photo of padmaa23108padmaa23108
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    [biggrin]Thank you very much for everybody’s comments on this. Just shows how supportive this forum is and how knowledgable. I am glad I am in your company.
    Jo,
    I didnot take offence at your comments. Truth is harsh always. Having said that, I have a bit of thinking to do about that property. I have not made that decision lightly. It was based on our changing circumstances (2 kids going to uni next year to Melbourne).ANyway, Derek’s advice on compounding growth makes sense. I will keep you posted.
    As per renting to students, the timing is good because the property is vacant now, (although it will have to stay vacant next 2 months) but that gives us time to paint, recarpet etc. I still am not sure whether we should move ourselves into a rented place. Any suggestions?
    Padma

    Profile photo of MonopolyMonopoly
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    Originally posted by padmaa23108:

    [biggrin]Jo,
    I didnot take offence at your comments. Truth is harsh always.

    I’m glad you didn’t take offence, none was intended. More importantly, I am glad to hear that the message did get through, this is mostly to Derek’s credit for so aptly highlighting the value of compounding interest.

    As per renting to students, the timing is good because the property is vacant now, (although it will have to stay vacant next 2 months) but that gives us time to paint, recarpet etc.

    How can this be better??? The property is VACANT hence not only are you (a) losing money, but more importantly (b) the work will not be deductible (although it can be factored in as part of Capital Expenditure in the event of a future sale).

    I still am not sure whether we should move ourselves into a rented place. Any suggestions?

    Stay put!!! [blink] Why do you need to move if the works are only “cosmetic” after all, the worst case scenario would be some minor “inconvenience” ie. having to endure paint odours, or moving furniture in readiness for carpet to be laid!!!

    I’m sorry if it sounds blunt, but I’m afraid it sounds as though you haven’t done your homework and that every direction you seem to move in is likely to be costing you more and more money!!!

    Good luck; hope you sort it all out.

    Jo

    Profile photo of Mortgage HunterMortgage Hunter
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    I think it may be deductible if the landlord is refurbishing it back to it’s original condition between tenants – as long as it is AVAILABLE to rent it wont be an issue how long it stays empty.

    Cheers

    Simon Macks
    Mortgage Broker
    http://www.mortgagehunter.com.au
    0425 228 985

    Todays Hot Rate
    ***3 year fixed – 6.49%***

    Comments may not be relevant to individual circumstances. If you intend making any investment, financial or taxation decision you should consult a professional adviser.

    Profile photo of clintdbclintdb
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    With regards to renting it out now or waiting for the “right time”, try this exercise;

    1) Wait 2 months now, rent it out in January and then keep re-leasing every January.
    RESULT: A definite 2 months of no rent.

    2) Rent it out right now and then try to re-lease it next November. If you can, great. If you can’t, well just keep trying until the January period again.
    RESULT: Possible 2 months of no rent. Possible 0 months of no rent.

    All other things being equal, I’d go for the “possibility” of losing 2 months of rent rather than “definitely” losing it.

    I think what Derek was getting at originally (and what I was in agreement with) was that if you are doing things that force you to go without rent for a while, try not to miss the Jan/Feb commencement of uni, otherwise it might stay vacant for another 6 months or a year (or the only applicants will be those people who get turfed out of their current places and are looking for somewhere else…. not the ideal tenant!).

    I haven’t missed anything here have I guys?

    Clint

    Profile photo of DerekDerek
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    Originally posted by clintdb:

    I think what Derek was getting at originally (and what I was in agreement with) was that if you are doing things that force you to go without rent for a while, try not to miss the Jan/Feb commencement of uni

    Hi Clint,

    That is the point of my comments – initially our property lease concluded in April (coincided with late intake students) and as such we initially were only actively in the market with a later intake group.

    After juggling leases and sustaining a period of 5 weeks without tenants we are now aligned with January intakes which gives us access to all intakes if required. The timeline on our leases do and will conclude with a January finish to maintain this cycle.

    Derek
    [email protected]

    Property Investment Support Available. Ongoing and never stopping. PM welcome.

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