All Topics / Legal & Accounting / CGT if I sell

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  • Profile photo of JoeCoolJoeCool
    Member
    @joecool
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 9

    Folks,

    I have a prop that was originally purchased as our main residence and consequently we lived in it for years.

    It was also rented for years, and I am wondering what the CGT implications were if I sold up?

    Isn’t there a rule that if you lived in a prop for 12 month then its classed as your main residence and CGT does not apply!?

    Is this the case ?

    Any help would be much appreciated

    Cheers

    Profile photo of FlyHighFlyHigh
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    @flyhigh
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 24

    I believe you can rent it our for up to 6 years after having lived in it without paying CGT, so long as it is still your PPOR.

    FlyHigh [cap]

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    Section 118-145 of the Income Tax Assessment Act allows the main residence CGT exemption while the taxpayer is temporarily abscent for up to 6 years.

    Terryw
    Discover Home Loans
    North Sydney
    [email protected]

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of FluffyFluffy
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    @fluffy
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 35

    Hi All,

    Soooo… if you can vacate for 6 years after living in it and not pay CGT, what about if you had a IP and lived in that for over 1 year? Does CGT still apply? (wishful thinking I think)

    Also, what is the definition of PPOR – does this mean you can vacate but your mail still goes there so its counted as your PPOR?

    [blink]

    Cheers
    Fluffy :-)

    Profile photo of masteraccountantsmasteraccountants
    Member
    @masteraccountants
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 77

    Hi Fluffy,

    I like what you are thinking! And the answer is yes.

    You do have to be careful though. You can only have one PPOR at a time, and there are tests as to what is your PPOR at any given time.

    Some of the tests are as follows –

    1. is this your electoral address?
    2. is this your address for electricity services?
    3. is this your address for postal mail?
    4. is this where you actually reside?

    In your relations with the ATO, I would strongly suggest that you do not try to hoodwink them and that you are truthful. If you claim that an IP is your PPOR for one year or more, then you had better have been actually residing in it for that time.

    This should be something that can be evidenced by the testimony of your neighbours, your mail at the post office, the electricity account, your electoral address and the like.

    The ATO accept a lap over period so that, where you are selling your PPOR and you move into an IP that becomes your PPOR for a time, the ATO accept that you do not pay CGT on your previous PPOR and that the IP has become your new PPOR.

    Just ensure that what you are claiming is factual, that is that it actually happened. What you are proposing is completely legal and good tax planning.

    If the reason for the absence is that you went to work overseas, so you always intended to come back to that house, that supports your case.

    If the reason for the absence is that you moved to another State to work for a few years, and had the intention to return to that house as your PPOR, that supports your case.

    Having said that, the ATO accepts that a person’s situation can change, so what was the PPOR no longer suits, eg additions to the family and the house is now too small, the relocation has become permanent, and the like.

    So it can be a grey area, and you should be prepared to argue your case. And that does not mean that you have slim chances. You just have to have reasons and be prepared to argue them.

    As a final warning, I would be careful about contrived situations. If it looks as though you only lived in the IP for one year with no intention to really establish it as your PPOR, in the absence of any strong reasons to the contrary, the ATO could deny your claim and charge you CGT.

    Christopher Raynal
    Master Accountants Group Limited
    PO Box 46018 Herne Bay
    Auckland New Zealand
    Ph +64 9 360 3259
    Fax +64 9 360 2180
    http://www.masteraccountants.co.nz

    Profile photo of MonopolyMonopoly
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    @monopoly
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 1,612
    Originally posted by masteraccountants:

    1. is this your electoral address?
    2. is this your address for electricity services?
    3. is this your address for postal mail?
    4. is this where you actually reside?

    Correct…However, ALL of these things can be (and are) applicable if you are RENTING as well. I believe you have overlooked the OWNERSHIP factor in this equation, which also plays a major part in determining whether the CGT exemption is applicable.

    Cheers,

    Jo

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    Monopoly

    For more information on this please see.
    CGT Determination Number 51
    Capital Gains: What factors are taken into account in determining whether or not a dwelling is a taxpayer’s sole or principal residence?
    http://law.ato.gov.au/atolaw/view.htm?locid='CGD/TD51/NAT/ATO

    Terryw
    Discover Home Loans
    North Sydney
    [email protected]

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of MonopolyMonopoly
    Member
    @monopoly
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 1,612

    TerryW,

    All of these factors (above) and as per the ATO information is correct, I am not disputing this at all. What I am saying, plain and simply, is that these criteria can (and do) apply to those RENTING. That is if you live in a PPOR and want to be CGT exempt upon sale of same (within the 6 year exemption period) YOU MUST NOT HAVE PURCHASED another PPOR elsewhere!!! In short, you can move out of your PPOR, and rent elsewhere (using all the above conditions), but if you BUY another PPOR and again with the same criteria, the CGT exemption becomes null and void after the initial 6 month transition period (from one PPOR to another)!!!

    Does that help clarify it??? This is EXACTLY the type of misleading information people are given simply because the FULL picture is NOT SPELT OUT!!!

    Jo

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    of course – you can only have one main residence (only one can be the main)

    Terryw
    Discover Home Loans
    North Sydney
    [email protected]

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of Mortgage HunterMortgage Hunter
    Participant
    @mortgage-hunter
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 3,781

    Not entirely correct – you can purchase a new PPOR while you are selling the old one and this overlap can be up to six months.

    Cheers,

    Simon Macks
    Mortgage Broker
    http://www.mortgagehunter.com.au
    0425 228 985

    Todays Hot Rate
    3 year fixed – 6.57%

    Comments may not be relevant to individual circumstances. If you intend making any investment, financial or taxation decision you should consult a professional adviser.

    Profile photo of JuliaJulia
    Member
    @julia
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 217

    What a mess.
    You can purchase another property & live in it and still exempt as your PPOR a property you previously lived in. You just can’t exempt both unless limited application of 6mth overlap see below.

    The benefit of the six year rule (118-145) can be totally lost if you go one day over because of 118-192:
    Make sure you count your fingers when the ATO introduces legislation designed to make your record keeping obligations easier. Section 118-192 was introduced to make complying with the CGT provisions easier for people who through change of circumstances rent out their own home. If, up until the property was rented out they had always used it as their home the section resets their cost base to the market value when it was first rented out. This is a practical solution because most people have not kept enough records while it was there home. The problem is section is not optional, it applies to homes first rented after 20th August, 1996. Interestingly, a year when market values had dropped considerably. The section is best explained by 4 examples where we will assume:
    Property Purchased January 1993 for $100,000
    Stamp Duty and Solicitor on purchase $7,000
    Market Value in January 1998 was $120,000
    January 1998 a tenant moved into the house.
    The first three families sold their homes in January 2004 for $250,000. The fourth family sold their home in January 2005 for $250,000.
    Commission and Solicitor on Sale $8,000
    Holding Costs i.e. Rates, Repairs, Insurance, Maintenance and Interest are $7,000 per year.

    Family 1:
    Couldn’t move straight into the home when they first purchased it as tenants had a lease that ran for 3 months after settlement. The family lived in other rented accommodation during this time. So this family lived in the home for less time then the others. In January 1998 they purchased a new home and decided to rent out their old home. As the property was rented out before it became their home section 118-192 does not apply. Their capital gains are calculated as follows:
    Stamp Duty, Solicitor and Purchase Price $107,000
    Commission and Solicitor on Sale 8,000
    Holding costs $35,000 less $1,750 when 1st rented 33,250
    Cost Base $148,250
    Selling Price 250,000
    Capital Gain $101,750
    Reduce for the period used privately 57/120 = 47.5% 48,331
    Taxable Capital Gain $53,419
    Less: 50% CGT discount 26,709
    Amount on which tax is payable at normal rates $26,710

    Family 2:
    Moved straight into the house when they purchased it. In January 1998 they purchased a new home and decided to rent out their old home. They then sold their old home in January 2004 so 50% of the time it was their main residence. Section 118-192 applies. Their capital gains are calculated as follows:
    Market Value when first rented – cost base $120,000
    Selling Price 250,000
    Capital Gain $130,000
    Less: 50% CGT discount 65,000
    Amount on which tax is payable at normal rates $65,000

    Family 3:
    Lived in their home for the full 10 years but made the mistake in January 1998 of accepting a small amount of rent from a friend who lived with them for a few months while waiting for a unit in a retirement village to become available. It is unlikely this will cause much capital gains tax to be payable but nevertheless the property will be subject to capital gains tax so are required to keep records from January 1998 onwards and incur considerable accounting fees having it calculated.

    Family 4:
    Moved straight in when they purchased the home but in January 1998 moved to a mining town and lived in employer accommodation. They thought the 6 year rule would protect their home from CGT but when they returned they decided to settle in the next suburb purchasing a house of the same value namely, $250,000. They didn’t sell their old house until 6 years and 1 day after the tenants first moved in. They did not move back into the old house. This means that they effective lose the benefit of the 6 year rule. Their capital gains are calculated as follows:
    Market Value when first rented – cost base $120,000
    Selling Price 250,000
    Capital Gain $130,000
    Less: 50% CGT discount 65,000
    Amount on which tax is payable at normal rates $65,000
    The tax on this will leave them a considerable gap when trying to pay for the home of the same value in the next suburb. In other words they have lost their main residence exemption and had to pay tax on nothing more than inflation not a real increase in wealth.
    Family 1 who lived in their home for the least amount of time paid less than half the tax (depending on the tax bracket the gain pushed them into) that family 2 and 4 had to pay.
    Another trap is if you sell the house within 12 months of first renting it out you will not qualify for the 50% discount. None of the above applies to properties purchased before 20th September, 1985.

    Now to the 6 months over lap rule this cannot be used if the property being sold is used as a rental property in the 12 months preceeding the sale.
    Section 118-140 Your main residence exemption applies to two homes for a period of up to 6 months. This is intended to allow you time to sell your old home after purchasing a new one. To qualify:
    1) The first home must have been your residence for a continuous period of at least 3 months in the 12 months immediately preceding the date of sale.
    2) If you were not living in the first home at any time during the 12 months preceding the date of sale it can not have been used for producing income (i.e. rented out or used as a place of business).
    Note section 118-140 is not optional it must apply so if you have made a capital loss during the period of overlap you cannot claim it.

    Sorry about the cut and paste but running out of time.

    Julia Hartman
    [email protected]
    http://www.bantacs.com.au

    Profile photo of petebellpetebell
    Member
    @petebell
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 38

    Hi Julia,

    so… If I buy my PPoR, live in it for 2 years, rent it out for 2 years, then sell, having not bought anywhere else, the gain is CGT free, is that right?

    or do I need to move back into it for 12 months?

    Thanks

    Pete

    Profile photo of JuliaJulia
    Member
    @julia
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 217

    Pete,

    No need to move back in before you sell just as long as you have not been absent for more than 6 years in a row and you did live there first no CGT.

    Julia Hartman
    [email protected]
    http://www.bantacs.com.au

    Profile photo of petebellpetebell
    Member
    @petebell
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 38

    Thanks Julia,

    Love the name, BAN TACS

    Ps. Been to Beachmere, got a client there…

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