All Topics / The Treasure Chest / finance question after hearing from broker

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  • Profile photo of richmondrichmond
    Participant
    @richmond
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 831

    Howdy,

    I heard back from the mortgage broker this arvo ahead of my trip to buy some properties next week in a location I can’t disclose.

    My stats are:

    Joint income with fiancee – Me $65k Her $48k
    PPOR – worth $330k, owe $130k
    IP1 – worth $370k, owe $155k

    No other debts on cars or anything, PPOR is with an offset account where we live off the credit card, pay it off before it accrues interest etc.

    I have $55k in the offset account.

    Broker said I can go and buy $255k of property (3 x 60k, 1x 65k) using my $55k as 20% deposit for each one.

    I would have thought I would have been able to borrow a lot more money than that.

    I’d like to borrow the entire cost of the property and leave my 50k where it is so I can get my PPOR paid off as quick as possible (we’re aiming for inside 3 years)… I want my loans to all be IO.

    Broker told me he doesn’t think I should cross-collaterise… if someone can put cross collaterisation into layman’s terms it’d be appreciated.

    Also, I know if I don’t go 20% deposit I’m up for LMI, but is it better to cop the LMI now and pay less for the properties, or avoid LMI and pay more for the properties later?

    Any thoughts would be appreciated…
    Jamie

    Profile photo of Gus_2Gus_2
    Member
    @gus_2
    Join Date: 2002
    Post Count: 39

    Yes is the short answer!

    My understanding of the principle of Cross Collateralisation in laymans terms is that the bank formally connects all loans to all your property. In other words your PPOR is collateral for IP1 and IP1 is Collateral for IP2 etc. Simply, the main implication of this is: The bank can foreclose multiple IP’s in order to recover their debt if they consider you a greater risk due to changes in the deals circumstances. A loss of job and therefore non-rental income, downturn in the market effecting valuations (and LVR’s), increased interest rates making servicability more difficult and high vacancy on the IP could cause the bank to take swift action if they consider their capital to be at high risk. Multiple loans, with different banks, with each loan covering 1 property only reduces the risk of the bank taking all your properties.

    Gus

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    Hi all

    I agree with Gus. Cross collateralisation is the same as cross securitisation and means, basically, using 2 (or more) securities for the one loan. This is not such a good idea as the bank often has more security than it needs, and it makes things messy if you want to refinance or sell one of the properties later. I better way may be to use a LOC on one property and to withdraw the deposit for the next property from this account.

    Terryw
    [email protected]

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    Hi Richmond

    Basically what Michael says is (theoretically) correct, but he hasn’t taken into consideration closing costs. Assuming 5%, then the figure would come down to $1,320,000.

    But you still must meet serviceability requirements, ie you must have the income to support the loan repayments.

    Putting your figures into one of the bank calculators, I get a maximum borrowing capacity of $449,000 – without including ny potential rent from new purchases. Assuming you were to get a 5% rental yield this figure would jump to approx $685,000.

    [I have assumed you get $370 pw rent for IP one, no children, no credit cards, and repayments for your current loans are $838/month and $1000 per month).

    I understand why you don’t want to use the cash in your offset account. Mayabe you could, just get another split on that loan up to 80% LVR and use money from that as deposits, and keep the $55K in the offset. You could also increase the other loan up to 80% as well.

    Down the track you can consider using low doc loans. These loans generally have a higher interest rate, but there is one low doc product at normal rates (6.07%) at 80% LVR. But you must be self employed for at least 3 years to qualify. This must be proved by an ABN registration. Therefore it may be wise to register for an ABN now in anticipation (costs nothing).

    Don’t really know on the LMI angle. Some like to avoid it by paying bigger deposits, others like to put as little money into a deal as possible. I personally went for the later approach – I tried for as many 95% loans as I could get.

    I think if you are going to pay LMI at some stage it would be better doing it sooner rather than later as the LMI crowd have stricter qualifying requirements, so if you wait till you do a few properties and then apply for a 95% loan, they may say someting like you are too rental reliant etc -Even tho you may still have the income to qualify for the loan.

    [email protected]

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of richmondrichmond
    Participant
    @richmond
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 831

    Thanks so much for all those replies… I’m going to have a long chat with my broker today to see what the go is… in our initial meeting he mentioned lines of credit etc, but for some reason it went by the wayside… I’ll find out why

    Profile photo of TIGTIG
    Member
    @tig
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 8

    Hi,
    I’m very new to this site, and found that these informations are so valuable.
    My situation is so similar as Richmond, ie PROP for owner occupancy, and 1 IP, I think they are cross securitisation rather cross collateralisation. Can anyone suggest how can I rectify this situation, so that I won’t end up down the street if anything go wrong with my IP?
    Many thanks,
    Grace [?]

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    Grace

    If the property has risen in value, you can apply for a release of security. This would remove any cross collateralisation and should only cost about $300 or so plus the cost of a valuation.

    Terryw
    [email protected]

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of dr housedr house
    Participant
    @dr-house
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 281

    If you can find a really good property, why not use the $50,000 cash offset a/c money?
    The gearing effect of property is a wonderful thing.
    Also, have you got a home line of credit, also a wonderful thing: interest slightly higher but well worth the convenience and flexibility.
    Get your home revalued and you can borrow another 66,000.
    Serviceability is definitely the key.

    Profile photo of fastainvestafastainvesta
    Member
    @fastainvesta
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 14

    Seems to me like your broker has not stared off the right waay form the beginning – what do you want? what are your plans? how can we help you achieve them?
    I agree with Terry and Michael above re cross collaterailsation(i don’t tthionk I got that right)
    I had a long discussion with a senior bank oficer about six months ago and I think this would be representative – they WANT to cross collateralise because if there is a problem the first property they go for is the PPOR, they don’t have to wory about tenents rights, notifications etc etc. If you own it and have offered your home as security they can get you out real quick. We try very hard and will reduce loan amounts, if necessary and in keeping with longer term goals, not to cross coll…
    With a little bit of work and the right structuring of the loans, it should be possible to keep each property separate in most cases.
    Interested to hear any other experience.

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