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August 25, 2008 - 1:46 am

Hi Richard,

Thanx for the response, however I still am confused.

So even if the 5% owner has not paid anything nor received anything and totally separated financial arrangement, he/she is still entitled to 5% of tax deductions?

Many thanx,
Cattleya

Cattleya

Here to learn the ropes of property investing & share knowledge, not trying to sell anything at all.

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August 24, 2008 - 10:39 pm

And most likely NAB will recognise this 'idea' of hers when it is time to re-finance.

Why not just negotiate better rates with NAB? Given their 3 loans with NAB, I'm sure your friends can do this.

Good luck,
Cattleya

Cattleya

Here to learn the ropes of property investing & share knowledge, not trying to sell anything at all.

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January 27, 2008 - 8:11 am

C2 wrote:

Steve has never said his plan was the best or perfect but quite a few people have followed what he said and are now quite successful property wise.  People who have attended Steve's seminars etc have received more detailed information regarding his plans and methods. 

People read 130 properties and automatically think all these properties much be really expensive etc but you will find that a lot of them were in regional areas, were very cheap but returning good weekly/monthly figures.  This coupled with either bank managers who understood what they wanted to do made the process easier for them.

This book really is interesting. Here's some principles I learnt that confirms what C2 said above.

1.  For any seller, cash is king. Hence, if we want to finance property using OPM, which is not necessarily cash, the seller must have an incentive to accept this. Hence, it's very difficult to use this in blue chip suburbs as there are plenty of buyers willing to pay cash deposit.

2.  We have to have the background knowledge eg. tax, finance, property and negotiation knowledge to be able to evaluate these opportunities ie. where the seller is willing to sell but we think the price is too dear. We need to assess:
– what's the highest price we can do (financial, property and tax skill)
– what price we can push the seller to come down to (nego skill)

Then we structure the deal using these tools:
– cash: maybe $10k now, another $10k in 4weeks, first mortgage on my share portfolio and a second mortgage to my existing commercial property.
– time: long settlement time ie. similar with WRAP or short settlement time but with little cash. The vendor might be interested in minimising his tax by getting the sale proceed in the next financial year which, for example, is 7 months away.
– other assets vendor might be interested in
– other things (I haven't finished reading the book)

3. The deal have to be structured in a way that's beneficial for both sides. Hence we really need to know the cents and dime, our own cash flow etc. Hence we can make sure that every deal is positive cash flow. If it is not, why bother negotiating. Remember, the seller is willing to talk to us because he is having problem finding a buyer.

4. Deals like these have to be found. So we need to plough the streets and be sensitive looking at every possibilities in a deal. It sounds like we need to be a full time investor to do this. Also, when you are a full time well known investor like Steve, people come to you with all sorts of deals and willing to negotiate. So after a while, when we have our reputation, the deals find us rather than the other way around.

5. There are private investors who are willing to lend money to do deals like these. Aparently in the US, the accountants and lawyers have access to their clients' financial strengths and interests. They play a major role in contacting their clients telling them there's a quick bucks to make. So for example, I need $100k to finance a purchase. Rather than going to the bank and pay 8.7%, these private investors are happy for 7%, which is better than bank savings rate. Obviously, there has to be trust. We have to have earned our good reputation before the door to this private funds is openned.

The lawyers / accountants get a fee. So we have to incorporate these extra fees into our numbers to see whether the deal is still worth our while. Aparently there's many incidental fees like this, so again… our financial / accounting / taxation skill must be top notch.

6. To get this good reputation we have to be visible, have lots of good connections. The book speaks about keeping contacts with council officials, bankers, accountants and lawyers, fellow investors and leaders of the society. Sounds like hard work to me, but not unbelievable.

These people will give you bits and pieces of information that will not be available to the public. Or at least we'll know much sooner than the public. It is then up to us to put the pieces together to see the big picture and identify opportunities.

7. This is an entirely different ball game from the regular property investing I know ie. pay 20% deposit, take mortgage with the bank. I didn't even negotiate because there's this RE agent who said this has to be so and so….  and yet everything is negotiable. But then again, I probably didn't have much chance to negotiate as there was always legions of buyers willing to pay cash.

Happily sharing with you,
Cattleya

Cattleya

Here to learn the ropes of property investing & share knowledge, not trying to sell anything at all.

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January 27, 2008 - 3:52 am

Hi Guys…

Sorry, have to respond to Milly first. I have very strong education background in accounting and finance. I've held senior position in auditing department in 2 of the biggest banks. I do not have my own business. I hope that clears Milly's comment – yes, property investors do need accountants with strong property background but I'm not vyieng for your business.

I hope that also clears why I did not learn much from Steve's book. Not because I disagree with what Steve wrote, but because I already know those, and much much more, from other sources. I don't mean to sound arrogant… but I do find Steve's book too light. And that's not only Steve's… also Margaret Lomas' Robert Kiyosaki's and other similar writers.

Now … this is what I wish to share. You might be interested.

I found this book about financing properties with OPM. It's an American book and may not be entirely relevant to Australian market but the ideas are very interesting. THESE are the things I expect to learn… 

And just like Steve said…, everything is legal. It is about working with the vendor / buyer and address each other's financial needs. For example, if you have a nursery / landscaping business and there is a developer who needs somebody to do landscaping for a new development; you can negotiate to do the landscaping and in return you get a downpayment for a unit within that development. Sure some of you may say you don't have that sort of business… but there are many other ways to do it.

Another example in the book is: you have another property, you may offer part of rent income for a deposit… or may be even a barter. The lesson I suppose, is to be creative and good negotiation skill with win-win result. This is another soft skill that, admittedly, more difficult to master but important nonetheless….Maybe this is another book topic idea for the Steves and Margarets of Australia? 

The book title is: Investing in Real Estate with OPM. Author is Jack Cummings by The McGraw-Hill companies. I'm not saying this is THE book. But I find it offers some of the answers I'm looking for. 

I'm currently half way through the book. Lemme know if you have other good books with similar topics.

Kind regards,
Cattleya 

Cattleya

Here to learn the ropes of property investing & share knowledge, not trying to sell anything at all.

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January 21, 2008 - 2:16 am

Hi Foundation,

Interesting theory and statistics. Interesting does not mean anything if the data is unreliable. Would you please tell us your credentials, where you got the data from etc… etc… so we know whether to believe in you.

This is an article from the RBA (ie. very very reliable…) Sure it's 1 year ago, but still is relevant.
It speaks about:
1. how other develop countries (US, Canada, UK, Netherlands, etc) manage housing affordability / how the provide affordable housings to their residents,
2. how these practices compare to Oz
3. Why RBA is not concerned about the sky rocketing property  prices – which mean they're not gonna try to make it come down.
4. many other things, but basically refuting a lot of what Foundation foresees.

Enjoy… 

http://www.rba.gov.au/rdp/RDP2006-12.pdf

Cattleya.

Cattleya

Here to learn the ropes of property investing & share knowledge, not trying to sell anything at all.

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January 19, 2008 - 9:12 am

Hi All,

Firstly…, sorry to hear about your burden Steve. Hope things go well and my prayers are with you and your family.

I wasn't criticising Steve at all… I was just communicating my opinion at the time. I was disappointed because to me, there wasn't much to learn from Steve's book. It could be very inspiring for others, just not so for me.

Similarly my comments about Steve being unwilling to explain because of a trade secret. That wasn't meant to be a criticism either. Everybody is entitled to trade secrets…, there is nothing bad about them. After all it is their way to earn a living. 

I recognise that Steve's book is just Steve's sharing of his personal success. It is not relevant to everybody, especially those who are unwilling to try, too many excuses, etc. I am not one of these, hence I am trying to find out other ways to finance the IPs.  

I guess what I and mikeking are doing is trying to understand the bits and pieces we might have missed whilst reading Steve's book. After all, asking questions is much faster and effective than trial and error yourself.

C2, thanx for the pointer. I'll start digging into the treasure chest and promise to post the link in here if I find anything relevant.

Thanx,
Cattleya.

Cattleya

Here to learn the ropes of property investing & share knowledge, not trying to sell anything at all.

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January 15, 2008 - 7:41 am

Hi,

Don't know much about lending practice in UK but I'm suggesting you finance it from where you earn your income to avoid foreign exchange risk.

Forex risk:
You buy property in UK using a bank in London
Monthly mortgage payment is GBP2000, of which GBP1000 is paid from rent income. The remaining GBP1000 is paid from Oz
You live and work in Ozy land
Forex usually means you have to pay AUD2500 to UK bank
Suddenly GBP rate moves and now you have to spend AUD3000 to buy GBP1000.

I am not saying you should not finance with UK bank. I'm only saying there is this risk and the banks are usually concerned about it. They are more comfortable with local money.
That's also one of the reasons why hardly any Australian borrows from Japan (very low interest rate) to finance properties in Australia.

Kind regards,
Cattleya

Cattleya

Here to learn the ropes of property investing & share knowledge, not trying to sell anything at all.

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January 15, 2008 - 7:07 am

Oh well…. that's it, Steve has left the room.

From Steve's post, I think what he says is:
1. Steve gets his deposit from selling his existing property(ies) that's ripe for harvesting. Well, my properties are still far far away from being ripe. And the ones already ripe I don't want to sell because the exit costs are too high.
Steve obviously has other tips in his bag to minimise these costs.

2. Steve tells everything to his financiers. Meaning he has a few mortgage brokers and the likes (eg. private investors?) who regularly deal with him and are comfortable with financing structures. So there are types of transactions that are mutually beneficial for Steve and his financiers. 

If we want to do this as well, we have to:
a.  find a financier(s) who believes in us (Steve obviously has built and proven his knowledge, reliability and proficiency in these things for the financiers to come to the party).
b.  find a financing structure that's serviceable to us and also profitable to the financiers.
c. I think it is safe to say that should Steve have to go through the banks' hoops he wouldn't be able to do his 130 properties in… how many months? 3 months? Hence the thing is: you have to be creative to find an affordable sources of funding and these sources are not the conventional mortgage products currently available on the market.
d. Steve is unwilling to explore this side, because after all it's a trade secret. Just like the Soup Nazi (Seinfeld series) never shares his recipes.

Any comments anybody? Will be greatly appreciated.

Cattleya.

Cattleya

Here to learn the ropes of property investing & share knowledge, not trying to sell anything at all.

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January 15, 2008 - 4:05 am

Steve,

I second Mikeking's post above. I didn't mean to be rude… on the contrary, I am very very curious to learn.

Looking forward to hearing Steve's comments,
Cattleya.

Cattleya

Here to learn the ropes of property investing & share knowledge, not trying to sell anything at all.

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January 15, 2008 - 2:43 am

Hi there…

I also read Steve's book a long time ago and thought it was .. basically, crap. Sorry Steve….

I understand that Steve probably uses a lot trusts like Trakka said. But isn't that illegal? I mean, he gets lots of loans without declaring all his financial liabilities. Way too risky / daring for somebody like me. So while this method works for him, I think it is not for me… hence there's very little new knowledge I got from the book.

For property valuation, gearing, etc… I already know as I'm an accountant. The thing I need to know is financing. And given the suggested way is, prima facie, dishonest and could back fire… I dismissed this as crap and passed his book to another friend.

For all out there… if what I think is wrong, please enlighten me. Any input is greatly appreciated.

Regards,
Cattleya.

Cattleya

Here to learn the ropes of property investing & share knowledge, not trying to sell anything at all.

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January 13, 2008 - 8:33 am

All, …. given this discussion is not answering Sitting on the Fence's original questions, this is my last post on this. Promise.

I maybe a young romantic who's full of nothing but ideals. However, can I please ask why you (maybe seank??) think it's not fair.

When you stay at home (house husbands as well as housewives) looking after your kids, don't get a chance to build your own nest egg and suddenly your spouse finds somebody else…, wouldn't you want to be protected? Example is Greg Norman and his ex wife.

Also, if your gold digging spouse wins $13 mil lotto and suddenly wishes to divorce you, wouldn't you want a piece of the winning as well?

Adler still has $10 mil but he used to have $100 mil. His client put in his life saving of $50k and got only $5k back. Sure the client lost his life style, but it's not Adler's fault that the client only had $50k in the first place and did not have the wisdom to put it into different buckets. I'm sure Adler did not deliberately set out to bankrupt his company, but he made mistakes and shits (excuse the pun) do happen.

I don't condone what Adler did, just think that we all should be accountable for our own mistakes and shits (excuse the pun) do happen.

Kind regards,
Cattleya

Cattleya

Here to learn the ropes of property investing & share knowledge, not trying to sell anything at all.

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January 12, 2008 - 8:39 pm

Seank,

Sorry to say this, your friend is not protected. The lawyers can correct me on this but my understanding is the Court can <take a deep breath> go back to all transfer of assets during the past 3 years <not sure but 3 I think is the minimum, can go back further than 3> and assess whether they were done to obscure ownership, to hide them from the spouse. If the court so decides, it has the power to nullify the transactions and give the spouse her / his rightful share. Especially when there's a kid involved.

It is best to transfer ownership before the relationship officially starts ie. marriage or in the first 2 years of living together. After this point everything is up for grabs.

Best is avoiding divorce at all cost – from the kid and financial perspective. If they have to, it is much much better to settle outside the court. Both partners should look into their hearts and decide what's fair. During a separation there's a lot of animosity and anger between the couples. These negative emotion prevents them from being fair to each other. The husband might be so angry that he denies what's rightfully hers and vice versa.

Also to put it into perspective: Family Law is created to protect the interests of the weaker spouse, not helping the gold diggers, though to our eyes that's what happens most of the time. What's fair in the eyes of the court may not be fair from our perspective because we don't know the full story and we are biased with emotion. The court is there to make us feel safe to enter a relationship, not the other way around.

Hope this helps.

Kind regards,
Cattleya

Cattleya

Here to learn the ropes of property investing & share knowledge, not trying to sell anything at all.

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January 11, 2008 - 9:16 am

Hi Misty,

Buyer solicitor usually organises the payments. So the steps are:
1. X (buyer) gives his account number (where X's deposit is) to his solicitor.
2. Buyer solicitor organises what money goes where as per Vendor Solicitor's instructions. See Richard's response above.
3. Vendor solicitor goes to Bank1 (where the old mortgage is) to pick up the title deed. For Bank1 to give the title deed to Vendor solicitor there must be sale contract and solicitor's signed receipt of the title deed.

4. Bank2 (where your funds is) issues the cheques as per buyer solicitor's instructions and give them to the buyer solicitor.
5. Bank3 (where your new mortgage will be) issues cheques as per required. Money to Bank1 is usually electronically transfered rather than via cheque.

6. At a mutually agreed time, Buyer solicitor meets vendor solicitor and bank3 and exchange documents. The cheques go to vendor solicitor, title deed goes to the bank3 and buyer solicitor gets nothing.

So for X to use Y's money to buy property, here's what needs to happen:
Buyer solicitor needs to get legal authorisation from Y that he can access Y's account. No personal cheque is allowed lest it bounces and fails the exchange. That legal authorisation must also be acceptable by Y's bank. Whether Y gets ownership or not is not relevant as it could be a gift. His signature on the authorisation letter is more important.

This is very complicated. Most likely thing to happen is buyer solicitor will ask Y to directly transfer the money into X's bank account and the process works as explained above.

Hope this helps,
Cattleya.

Cattleya

Here to learn the ropes of property investing & share knowledge, not trying to sell anything at all.

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January 11, 2008 - 6:14 am

 <<lol>>

Sitting on the Fence, you may want to tell your son to reconsider.  Even a prenuptial agreement is not watertight – example is K Fed and Britney whose prenup was said to be VERY watertight. And Britney does have the resources to hire the best lawyers to draft the prenup.

Another option is to put everything, or at least half, under your name and not his.

Last option, which I prefer and practice, appeal to her basic decency as a human being. If I were in your position I'd have a heart to heart talk. My other half and I agreed that when we, touch wood, separate we'll keep our paws off each other's pockets. I agree there is no guarantee, but nothing in life is guaranteed. And in return I have all the simple things that only a loving partner can give and make my life a whole lot brighter.

It is sad that our society has come to this: reluctance to venture into potentially very rewarding relationships because of money. And it works both ways – just as we are reluctant to build a relationship with poorer people, the richer ones are reluctant to date us because of fear of us being a gold digger.  As I said before, that makes us all potential gold diggers.

And most of the time there's no way around it, you have to move in together and face the risk of losing some of your money.  Mind you, it is only a risk not a certainty.

Kind regards,
Cattleya

Cattleya

Here to learn the ropes of property investing & share knowledge, not trying to sell anything at all.

[CattleyaParticipant@cattleyaJoin Date: 2008Post Count: 121]

January 9, 2008 - 7:42 am

Hi Anny,

Before I and everybody else say what we think of your investment, please follow your heart. You knew it was the right decision, whatever everybody else says cannot change the fact that it is yours and it is best to stick with it for at least a year, possibly even longer.

First, it is important to find as much tax deductible expenses as possible. If it was mine, I'll make sure to get GST invoice for the mowing services, otherwise it is not tax deductible. Also, lender's mortgage insurance is tax deductible. Contact your accountant to find out what else you can claim. You are a very nice person, but you don't really need to pay for lawn mowing.

From gearing perspective, as I learnt from this website, it is ok as long as I have enough cash reserve to cover emergency repairs and possibility of paying interest while having no tenant for the longest period needed to find a tenant.

Your annual return of $2260 is approx. 1.6% of the property value. It varies between investors, but I usually want at least 4% pa from my IPs. Unless I expect good capital gain.

No idea about capital gain potential. I suppose you are quite happy with this otherwise you wouldn't have bought it.

I don't know much about the property, but just from info you provided I wouldn't change a thing there. Not now anyway, not for $100k.

Good luck,
Cattleya.

Cattleya

Here to learn the ropes of property investing & share knowledge, not trying to sell anything at all.

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January 9, 2008 - 7:04 am

Da Man,

I think what you need is a personal banker who is your only contact point for all inquiries and banking arrangement. They usually require you have lots of money… and I mean lots of it. 

Westpac has a program similar to personal banking but for individuals with less money. I don't know what the requirements are but I suspect (mind you, this is just a guess) min $100k annual income, have IP. So if the bank you're talking about is Westpac, I suggest you ask for one regardless of your existing income.

I don't know about the other big4 banks. Given their fierce competition, they may have similar program but they usually do not advertise this. It's always worth asking.

Kind regards,
Cattleya

Cattleya

Here to learn the ropes of property investing & share knowledge, not trying to sell anything at all.

[CattleyaParticipant@cattleyaJoin Date: 2008Post Count: 121]

January 8, 2008 - 1:50 am

CGT is calculated pro-rata to how long it's tenanted.

Hold: 18 months.
PPOR: 13 months
Tenanted: 5 months.
taxable net profit from property sale: 50k.
Cgt is calculated as : $50k x 50% x (5/18) x your tax rate

Cheers,
Cattleya

Cattleya

Here to learn the ropes of property investing & share knowledge, not trying to sell anything at all.

[CattleyaParticipant@cattleyaJoin Date: 2008Post Count: 121]

January 7, 2008 - 10:22 pm

Sitting on the Fence, sorry… this discussion is not on your concerns anymore. I just can't resist one more post.

With all due respect to all single boys of all ages out there (including Milly?) what would it take to convince you that a girl is not a gold digger?

If she has more assets than you? Chances are she / her family thinks you're a gold digger.  

It's never ending isn't it?    I find it amusing that we potentially are all gold diggers?!

Cheers,
Cattleya

Cattleya

Here to learn the ropes of property investing & share knowledge, not trying to sell anything at all.

[CattleyaParticipant@cattleyaJoin Date: 2008Post Count: 121]

January 7, 2008 - 8:30 am

Hi,

I read this and I thought you'd be interested. It's got fancy graphs, statistics and much more meat – it's a 36 page document.

Retail Outlook: A Strong 2007
A strong year for retail despite higher interest rates.  More tightening coming through. So far consumers are continuing to show resilience.

Policy levers at loggerheads
Monetary tightening being stymied by fiscal boosts and booming labour market.
Rate hikes and tighter credit conditions will impact on disposable income, new borrowing and may see consumers turn cautious but these negatives are being offset by strong job markets, strong gains in wealth and non labour income plus a hefty boost from the government.
Net effect has been positive for household disposable incomes.

Household cashflows tell the story
Surge in income has swamped higher interest payments and even allowed households to rebuild savings while also spending strongly.
Situation is set to continue with labour demand still strong and another $10.5bn in tax cuts and other payments to households.

Interest rate will bite harder in 2008 with household interest payments likely to hit $100bn.
But the incremental impact on aggregate household cash flows will again be swamped by labour income.

Risks centre on financially vulnerable households
Impact on financially vulnerable households is the real risk. Bankruptcies and home loan arrears still comfortable while cross sction analysis suggests most indebt households are well-placed to meet their obligations.

Still significant number of exposed households eg. 11k low income first home buyers which are likely to be accounting for most of the rise in bankruptcies so far. Risk is that there prove to be significantly more households in this grey area, but few signs of a serious problem so far.

Inflation pressures continue
Higher inflation and interest rates looming as the main threat in 2008. Two more 25bp rate hikes in 2008H1 should do the trick but risk that more may be required.

Escalating prices erode purchasing power as well, most notably through higher food, fuel and rent costs.

Global prices and the AUD
Relative cost of many retail items has improved significantly over the last 7 years helped by the GST, falling global prices and a rising AUD.

Chinese deflation threat has moderated / reversed. Currency price effects will also reverse medium term. AUD to push back above 90c US but gains will be hard to sustain.

A return to pricing power for retailers?
Strong profits as surging sales volumes have combined with well contained costs. Some recovery in pricing power has also helped but still in the context of strong long run trend decline.

Wages: watch this space
Wages have been remarkably well contained at least in part due to the introduction of Workchoices. Policy will change under the new Labor Government

Resurgent housing market a clear upside risk
Housing is a key source of upside risk for retail. Housing shortages appear to be driving an upturn, albeit one constrained by affordability problems. Rate hikes will dent the upswing but it may still gain momentum. Upside risk to demand for housing fit-out items but also a big boost possible through rising household wealth.

Household wealth and housing equity withdrawal
Housing equity withdrawal an unpredictable ‘wildcard’ for demand.

Outlook for 2008: some moderation
Retail: Real sales growth to slow from a stellar 4.6% in 2007 to trend 3.3% in 2008.
AUD:  Volatility remains high as credit issues stalk the landscape. The current account deficit position comes under major scrutiny whenever liquidity tightens. AUD denomination of foreign debt is a partial hedge.
Interest rate: Interest increase to 50bps in the 1^st half of the year despite weaknesses offshore.
Australia: Growth is at a 3 year high but is this the peak? We remain optimistic that 4% growth is achievable in 2008. Constructions look formidable and capital expenditure still has legs. The export recovery has arrived and consumers will be resilient due to robust income growth.
Australian consumers: Our analysis of income flows shows that rate hikes and tax cuts broadly cancel each other out. Neither comes close to matching the importance of old fashioned labour income. Jobs are the key factor, and at this stage the outlook is good. The real risk to households revolves around the impact of rate hikes on financially vulnerable segments, not a squeeze on the sector as a whole. Job creation has accelerated and broadened to more sectors. Wages tend to have done likewise with traction retained in construction and manufacturing even though communications, finance &insurance, property and business services has not seen jobs growth but remains robust.
Share markets: Volatile times to persist into 2008. Wall Street stages a partial recovery but economic outlook is soft. Australian market outperformance to continue in 2008 but unlikely to shine as brightly as 2007.

Cattleya

Here to learn the ropes of property investing & share knowledge, not trying to sell anything at all.

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January 7, 2008 - 7:59 am

Hi,
this comment is probably too late, but I thought I'll put things into the big picture.

1. All assets prior to marriage or de facto relationship are not claimable by the spouse.
2. After 2 years of living together, the relationship is automatically de facto relationship. This means the spouse's entitlements are similar to those of married couples. During separation / divorce process both sides discuss settlement and this could be 50:50 or 100:0 depending on mutual agreement. Where there is disagreement the family court will look into:

a. whether the relationship was in fact de facto relationship or whether the marriage was valid. For a relationship to be called de facto there has to be evidence of sharing your lives to the level of marriage couple. The easiest is financial arrangements. This is where Milly and Yelina's comments fit in. But separate financial arrangement does not necessarily mean you keep your assets. It depends on other things eg. whether the boy bought her an engagement ring, or a present substantial enough to indicate there's more to it than regular friendship.
b. The need of each spouse eg. if the girl needs extra care the court thinks she is entitled to more money will be awarded to her. Example is K Fed and Britney Spears. The court decided Britney should pay more because she earns more.
c. If there's a kid, all bets are off.

I agree that there's a lot of gold diggers out there, but it begs the question: our marriages don't last as long anymore – may be it's because we start it with strong anticipation for divorce? Maybe what we need is entangling ourselves so much that divorce is not an option for either party? We start the relationship already thinking that the other half is a gold digger.

Anyway, hope that helps.
Cattleya

Cattleya

Here to learn the ropes of property investing & share knowledge, not trying to sell anything at all.