All Topics / Help Needed! / Options/Advice

Viewing 16 posts - 1 through 16 (of 16 total)
  • Profile photo of Already TakenAlready Taken
    Participant
    @already-taken
    Join Date: 2013
    Post Count: 12

    Hi,

    Been reading the forums with great interest for some time and thought it was probably time to join.

    Interested to know people's opinions on the following scenario.

    Our PPOR has a mortgage of $550k and a bank value of $825k.

    IP1 has a mortgage of $200k and a bank value of $200k.

    Looking to purchase IP2 and we are undecided as to whether or not we sell IP1 (est. sale price $220k).

    Reason being if we keep it we can probably borrow another $250k.

    If we sell we can probably look at up to $500k which obviously opens up a lot more options.

    IP1 has been good to us as a first investment which we bought 3 years ago for $185,000 but the current tenant has expressed a desire to purchase if we are interested so it got me thinking !!

    Look forward to any views and happy to supply more information if that helps at all.

    Thanks in advance.

    Profile photo of Jacqui MiddletonJacqui Middleton
    Participant
    @jacm
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 2,539

    If IP1 has been good to you why would you sell it?  The money you spent on stamp duty buying into it would be waste.d

    Have you thought of refinancing your PPOR to access the equity in order to fund a deposit on IP2?

    Jacqui Middleton | Middleton Buyers Advocates
    http://www.middletonbuyersadvocates.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    VIC Buyers' Agents for investors, home buyers & SMSFs.

    Profile photo of Already TakenAlready Taken
    Participant
    @already-taken
    Join Date: 2013
    Post Count: 12

    Hi JacM,

    The original loan on PPOR is $590k so not sure there is any need to refinance in order to unlock the equity?

    As for IP1 when I said that it had been good to us as a first investment I was referring to the fact that it had been pretty much set and forget with only 1 week untenanted in the last 3 years and the property manager has been a dream and nullified any potential problems we may have had with it being interstate. Perfect for dipping your toes in the IP world and picking up some very nice negative gearing along the way.

    My query was more towards the fact that if we sold for $220k we would end up with a little bit left over and our borrowing capacity would be greater for IP2 which unlocks a lot more options in terms of buy and hold, buy/renovate/hold, buy/develop etc. as well as the areas in which we can look.

    As IP1 is only a 1 bedroom unit there is not a great deal of scope for improving rent and/or equity compared with what our next purchase/s may be.

    Anyway, very much appreciate a response to my first post!

    Cheers.

    Profile photo of PLCPLC
    Participant
    @plc
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 400

    There is no harm in selling a property if you think that there is no scope for getting your money back on a negatively geared property through equity or rent. You don't want to keep on losing money year after year.

    In the end you need to decide if by selling will make your next move more fruitful.

    Cheers

    Tom

    PLC | Phoenix Loan Consulting
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Melbourne based Mortgage Broker | Making Finance Simple

    Profile photo of Jamie MooreJamie Moore
    Participant
    @jamie-m
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 5,069

    It sounds biased but speak to a decent finance person about your options before selling up.

    Without knowing the specifics of your situation, you may be able to keep your IP and still buy another.

    cheers

    jamie 

    Jamie Moore | Pass Go Home Loans Pty Ltd
    http://www.passgo.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Mortgage Broker assisting clients Australia wide Email: [email protected]

    Profile photo of Jacqui MiddletonJacqui Middleton
    Participant
    @jacm
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 2,539

    Your PPOR has a bank value of $825k and it has only $550k of debt.

    You could get a new bank to pay out the existing loan on your PPOR and start a brand new loan.

    The end result would be that you'd end up with cold hard cash sitting in an equity account and you could withdraw it and

    use it to purchase an investment property you see.

    I figure it would look like this:

    Bank valuation = $825k

    Portion of the property value that they would want to leave  in place as an imaginary deposit = 20% = 0.2 * 825k = $165k.  With 20% of the place "paid off" if anything went wrong they wouldn't likely lose too much if they had to liquidate your asset (eg if you defaulted on your mortgage).

    $825k-$165k = $660k

    From this $660k they would spend $550k paying out the old bank loan

    The remaining $110k (ie $660k – $550k) would be dumped into an equity release account (essentially an offset account against a mortgage that hasn't yet been drawn upon) and you could simply write a cheque from that

    account to pay for a deposit and stamp duty on a subsequent IP.  You would pay no interest until you actually withdrew

    the money, and then you would be able to claim the interest as a tax deduction since you would be using the money for

    the purposes of acquiring an investment asset. 

    Make sense?  So you've kind of fashioned $110k out of thin air.

    If the brokers on here can explain it better or see any issues with my explanation or calcs, I have no beef with them improving on my spiel or correcting anything.

    Jacqui Middleton | Middleton Buyers Advocates
    http://www.middletonbuyersadvocates.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    VIC Buyers' Agents for investors, home buyers & SMSFs.

    Profile photo of TheFinanceShopTheFinanceShop
    Participant
    @thefinanceshop
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 1,271

    Who has told you that you can borrow only $250k if you keep the existing property? There a lot of of ways to increase your servicing/borrowing capacity which includes:

    1. Jumping onto an IO loan if you are on a P&I loan

    2. Using the PPOR as an investment property so that you can use the rental income on the property whilst potentially renting or boarding rent free with family, etc

    3. Comparing what other banks are prepared to lend you as there is a massive difference (particuartly with the numbers you have presented) in what different lenders will lend you

    There are a few more strategies to increase your servicing capacity. 

    Regards

    Shahin

    TheFinanceShop | Elite Property Finance
    http://www.elitepropertyfinance.com
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Residential and Commercial Brokerage

    Profile photo of Already TakenAlready Taken
    Participant
    @already-taken
    Join Date: 2013
    Post Count: 12

    Thanks for the feedback so far.

    PLC, I agree.

    Jamie M, also agree but I guess the question was more centered around the amount I will be able to borrow with or without IP1 and whether or not I may be better off with 500k to spend on IP2 then 250k if I keep IP1. (speculative figures only).

    JacM, will definitely have a look a bit further into what you are saying as I have already done some digging on Line of Credit finance against the equity to fund further deposits which looks kind of similar?

    Shahin, nobody has told me that I could only borrow 250 it was based on some ROUGH calcs i did to maintain 80% LVR and keeping servicing capacity at a level which was comfortable. In reference to your points:

    1. Currently P + I on PPOR as ultimate goal is to eliminate that debt asap.IP1 is I only.

    2. PPOR is our dream home which we built and have only lived in for 12 months. As we have two children (2 2/1 and 12 weeks) not something we would entertain.

    3. This is definitely something to look at as currently our PPOR, IP1 and all other finance (cars/credit cards/bank accounts) are with the one lender.

    Cheers.

    Profile photo of Jacqui MiddletonJacqui Middleton
    Participant
    @jacm
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 2,539

    I wasn't talking about a line of credit, I was talking about an equity release loan.  I believe line of credit has a higher interest rate.

    It does not cost you to get a mortgage broker on board, they are paid by the bank, not by the client.  In this regard, why not get in touch with an awesome broker and talk specifics?  Jamie and Shahin have already responded in this thread, why not give one of them a buzz and start nutting things out?

    Jacqui Middleton | Middleton Buyers Advocates
    http://www.middletonbuyersadvocates.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    VIC Buyers' Agents for investors, home buyers & SMSFs.

    Profile photo of TheFinanceShopTheFinanceShop
    Participant
    @thefinanceshop
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 1,271

    You can change it to a IO and then change it back to an P&I. From a tax deductibility perspective try paying off the car loan as soon as you can even ahead of the PPOR as this is bad debt (going IO temporarily may help this without affecting your current cashflow). 

    If you are wanting to use existing equity to fund a new IP purchase I don't recommend a LOC but rather standard variable with a linked offset but just make sure its a separate a/c for tax purposes.

    There is a few other ways to increase servicing (depending on the lender), you can fix a portion of your loan (I would recommend that you do this purely from a risk mitigation perspective and not purely to increase your servicing) and negative gearing benefits. You may not be able to borrow $500k but it may work out quite close that figure. 

    Also you shouldn't sell your property because of finance as there is generally a solution. You should only consider selling a property if its costing you money and not going anywhere or a better opportunity comes up and you need the funds or of course you are in financial diffiiculty. 

    TheFinanceShop | Elite Property Finance
    http://www.elitepropertyfinance.com
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Residential and Commercial Brokerage

    Profile photo of Jacqui MiddletonJacqui Middleton
    Participant
    @jacm
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 2,539

    Great post Shahin !

    Jacqui Middleton | Middleton Buyers Advocates
    http://www.middletonbuyersadvocates.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    VIC Buyers' Agents for investors, home buyers & SMSFs.

    Profile photo of Richard TaylorRichard Taylor
    Participant
    @qlds007
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 12,024

    AT, definitely explore an equity loan as the rate will certainly be cheaper than a LOC.

    In regards to your current IP if you are thinking about selling it and the Tenant does not have a decent deposit remember you could always increase your cash flow (use the additional funds to pay down your PPOR) by looking to offer the property to him on Vendor Terms such as Installment Contract or Rent to Buy.

    You obviously have a plan to stay put in your current PPOR and pay down the PPOR debt as quickly as possible.

    I would look at possibly restructuring the PPOR loan and maybe fixing a portion of the loan as there will be a limit to how much you can pay back each month.

    Make sure you are maximising your IP deductions and whatever you do i would make sure the loans are standalone as it sound like they are cross collateralised.

    Even look at buying an IP with the option of selling it from day 1 on VF if you want to increase your income and pay down the PPOR. Course we haven't even explored the possibility of setting up a SMSF and purchasing property inside this structure.

    Cheers

    Yours in Finance 

    Richard Taylor | Australia's leading private lender

    Profile photo of TaylorChangTaylorChang
    Participant
    @scha9799
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 234

    If you can make money on selling IP1, I don't see the point not to selling it.

    My thought is IP is only for making money, once it helps you to make money reach to its goal. money move on to next project/property for better use of money. 

    Regarding to the loan, I agree every mortgage brokers here. you may sit with a mortgage broker and discuss the borrowing capacity together.

    Taylor

    TaylorChang | Finance Broker
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Home loan | Commercial loan | 0414 691 517

    Profile photo of Already TakenAlready Taken
    Participant
    @already-taken
    Join Date: 2013
    Post Count: 12

    Thanks Shahin,  we only keep the car loan as we get as much in deductions through claiming 80% for work use as we do on IP1 (as much as it pains me to have a car loan…)

    Glad I came on the forum because as much research as I thought I had done I had not come across or paid much attention to an equity loan so cheers for that JacM.

    Richard, appreciate the feedback. Do you mind if I ask why the emphasis on the loans being stand alone? Also if they are currently cross collateralised (you assumed correctly) then what is involved in shifting them to stand alone?

    Profile photo of Already TakenAlready Taken
    Participant
    @already-taken
    Join Date: 2013
    Post Count: 12

    Thanks Shahin,  we only keep the car loan as we get as much in deductions through claiming 80% for work use as we do on IP1 (as much as it pains me to have a car loan…)

    Glad I came on the forum because as much research as I thought I had done I had not come across or paid much attention to an equity loan so cheers for that JacM.

    Richard, appreciate the feedback. Do you mind if I ask why the emphasis on the loans being stand alone? Also if they are currently cross collateralised (you assumed correctly) then what is involved in shifting them to stand alone?

    Profile photo of TheFinanceShopTheFinanceShop
    Participant
    @thefinanceshop
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 1,271

    Based on your initial post you are definitely cross securitised but you do have enough equity to unlink them. You can get your broker or banker to restructure them but you would be up for another set of LMI if the larger security was pushed into LMI territory but this is not the case so you should be fine.

    Its best to set up standalone facilities for a lot of reasons but make sure that the equity you will use against the higher security is a standalone facility so the interest is not contaminated. 

    Some of the disadvantages of cross securitising your loan are;

    1. If you are in LMI territory then the LMI calculated will be on the higher loan and LVR amount rather than the individual and lower LVR and loan amount.

    2 If you sell one of the securities then the bank may reassess your financial position and if both of you are unemployed at the time of assessment then this may cause issues.

    3. If you sell your property in order to use the funds elsewhere then the bank may ask you to deposit the proceeds into the loan.

    4. If the valuation on one of the securities come back lower then you don't have the flexibility of moving that specific security to another bank.

    5. Generally speaking you lose the flexibility to moving or negotiating with the bank as they have 'tangled' your properties.

    Regards

    Shahin

    TheFinanceShop | Elite Property Finance
    http://www.elitepropertyfinance.com
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Residential and Commercial Brokerage

Viewing 16 posts - 1 through 16 (of 16 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic. If you don't have an account, you can register here.