All Topics / Value Adding / Suburbs with renovation potential

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  • Profile photo of waydo77waydo77
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    @waydo77
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 155

    Hello forum friends!!
    What statistics should one look at when analyzing a suburbs renovation potential, I’m thinking a low days on market, low stock on market, maybe a high auction clearance rate? I’m just talking buy Reno sell that is. Then I suppose analyse the sales price difference between renovated and unrenovated?

    Thanks for your help

    Profile photo of CatalystCatalyst
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    @catalyst
    Join Date: 2008
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    Yes but then all those things will drive your buy price up.

    There are courses that charge thousands to give you all the checklists etc to help you pick areas.

    It comes down to picking 1-2 suburbs and knowing them like the back of your hand.
    Know your end price and reno costs. That will give you your buy price.

    Unfortunately there is big competition for unrenoed properties now (in Sydney anyway). Some people are paying a lot more than I want to pay. So missing out on a few I want.

    Profile photo of waydo77waydo77
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    @waydo77
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 155

    True catalyst, surely time on market would be a major one to consider though so you have a better chance of selling it after the Reno?

    Profile photo of CatalystCatalyst
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    @catalyst
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    Do you mean timing the market? As in when demand is high? Yes of course you need demand. If there are no buyers you can't sell it. But if you buy low, do a great reno at a great price you'll sell it because you have the margin to sell at a good price. It's all about the numbers. You need to know everything about your area and that includes knowing what sells and at what price. If you are doing a reno to sell you need to know who your target audience is. Getting this right will attract the buyers you want at the price you want.

    Profile photo of wisepearlwisepearl
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    @wisepearl
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 264

    A good indicator of a suburb having renovation potential is a broad price range. API mag (or was it one of the others?!?!) did a great feature on this a couple months ago. Ideally with a reno project you want to buy a house below the median price for the suburb, but not the lowest in the suburb, and sell it above the median with good profit, but not the highest price.

    A suburb with median price of $500k and sales ranging from $420k – $650k is fairly narrow and may have limited reno potential. But a suburb with median of $500k and sales ranging from $300k – $700k would likely give you a better outcome.

    Once you have found a suburb that demonstrates a wide range of sales prices, look for house pricing of unrenovated properties and compare this to renovated properties. Can you consistently see a reasonable price difference? Is there profit to be made? Ensure you’re familair with the suburb and are not comparing low priced homes in the undesirable pocket next to X area with the more expensive street closer to the river, for example.

    Profile photo of luke86luke86
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    @luke86
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 470

    There is also lots of things to look into with the wide range of sales. g. Dlwich Hill in Sydney has a wide range of sale prices, but the expensive units are art deco units and the cheaper properties are in 1980's brick apartment buildings. No matter how well you renovate a property in this market, you will not be able to sell a unit in a 1980's brick building for as much as one in a art deco building. My opinion- you reallt need to do your due diligence and know the market like the back of your hand.

    Cheers,
    Luke

    Profile photo of wisepearlwisepearl
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    @wisepearl
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    absolutely luke – compare apples with apples, just damaged, bruised, dull apples with shiny, polished apples! ;)

    Profile photo of waydo77waydo77
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    @waydo77
    Join Date: 2011
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    Thanks wise pearl and Luke, will look into price ranging now, had a fair idea but never thought that broad of a range

    Profile photo of Andrew_AAndrew_A
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    @andrew_a
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 392

    Like development it’s important to know your end market, who you will be selling to and for what price, once you own that space you can work backwards through the marketing, renovation work, purchase price/location/property type to work out a detailed feasibility study to arrive at your present position!

    Profile photo of waydo77waydo77
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    @waydo77
    Join Date: 2011
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    True to that Andrew, so I suppose basically if u were targeting couples u would look for nearby cafes and pubs, universities and trade schools, whereas a family would be more sporting grounds, schools -and then find and tailor make a property to suit? Only thing is how do u work backward thru marketing?

    Profile photo of J&TJ&T
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    @jye-and-tahnee
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 37

    Hi Waydo,

    We are just starting to learn about reno's as our preferred strategy as well. What we have learnt so far – as Luke86, wisepearl, Allen_A and Catalyst have pointed out is probably most important thing to look at first is "what is your target market?" – first home buyers? empty nesters? young profesionals? reitrees? Without knowing that you really have no idea about what property you are targetting (no. of rooms, proximity to transport,infrastruture, single level or two storey, 1 car spot or 2?) Each market generally has some fairly specific requirments or things they're looking for. e.g. retirees- kids have moved out and grown-up, likely grandchildren around and increased need for medical facilities access due to their increasing age. Typically (not exactly….typically) – from other investors we've spoken to – reitrees are then looking for: 3 bedrooms; either main for themselves plus 2 extra for kids & grandkids to all stay at once, or 1 each (apparently a lot of older couples sleep separately to get a good nights sleep) with 1 still left over for when the kids and grandkids come to stay. Typically they also want an ensuite for when they get up in the middle of the night for the 7th time (don't want to be frequently stumbling down the hall in the dark), all on single level to avoid stairs, easily maintained gardens, close to medical facilities and shops as I said. This then gives you the starting point to allow you to conduct further due dilligence (most important term we're learning) into: suburbs that provide the above, allow you to purchase, add-value and sell at profit. We're also learning the numbers and finance is the key – If the numbers don't stack up – i.e. you can't purchase, hold, renovate and sell and still make profit….move onto the next potential deal. Don't get emotionally attached, don't renovate a house to include all the things you want in a house. You aren't buying it-someone else is. Work out what they want (target market)…make it for them and sell it to them (at a profit). The tricky bit is all the due dilligence, hard work, number crunching and sourcing finance bit in between. That's what we have learnt so far. We have not yet completed our first reno, but are preparing to start our first one in Perth next year. Hope this helps.

    Profile photo of CatalystCatalyst
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    @catalyst
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    Hi Jye and Tahnee,
    You make some good points. Sounds like you're on the right track. Are you wanting to do a buy reno sell strategy? It's a great way to build up some equity but in order to "make it" you need to hold too.

    Be careful not to be too limiting when you reno too. It's great to know a target audience but an area doesn't only have one "audience". So it's good to appeal to a wider audience too.
    As you said it's an investment, not your home so buy products, and renovate with that in mind. It's a newby mistake to make it look like something "you" would like. To most people a $100 tap doesn't look any different to a $400 tap. I've seen people put granite benchtops in a cheap property. Crazy.
    I'd be interested to hear about your future endeavours.

    Profile photo of waydo77waydo77
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    @waydo77
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 155

    hey jye and tahnee, catalyst,

    good tips, just recently completed a reno course that has helped me a lot, I know where to go from here just learning about the suburb research etc, so much to learn but have narrowed my 120 suburb search down to 5 which I would have no idea about before, I was looking in all the wrong places at all the wrong figures.

    so many numbers, statistics and research to go through but I plan to renovate in adelaide just after xmas, cutting it a bit short to do all my research, renovate and sell before the dead sales period in november and december. ill try though.

    cheers
    wade

    Profile photo of J&TJ&T
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    @jye-and-tahnee
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 37

    Hey Waydo,

    Sounds great mate. Yes we’re in the area research stage at the moment as well. As I said we’re looking at Perth though. Yes, lots of numbers and stats to look at, but we’ve learnt that it’s the self preparation and doing the research that will determine whether or not the project will be profitable or not.

    We’d love to hear how you go with your project and we’re more than happy to let you know how we go when we commence our first one next year. You can get us at [email protected].

    Cheers Waydo,

    Jye and Tahnee.

    Profile photo of waydo77waydo77
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    @waydo77
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 155

    Hey jye n tahnee,
    Cheers for the email, I’m [email protected], would be great to know how u go and I’ll le u know where I end up at te end of the year, all the best

    Profile photo of gpfstuffgpfstuff
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    @gpfstuff
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 11
    waydo77 wrote:
    just recently completed a reno course that has helped me a lot,

    Hello waydo77,

    I'd be interested to know what reno course you completed?

    Thanks
    Glen

    Profile photo of J&TJ&T
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    @jye-and-tahnee
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 37

    Hi Waydo,

    Just touching base to see how your year has ended up mate. Hopefully all going to plan.

    We are still working towards doing our first reno in Perth next year. Heaps going on for us.

    Would be keen to catch up via email. Are you still at [email protected]?

    Our hotmail account got hacked so we couldn't use it anymore. Our new email is: [email protected]. Sorry if you had emailed us and we never replied.

    Will try and get you at your gmail account anyway.

    Chat soon.

    Jye and Tahnee.  

    Profile photo of Andrew_AAndrew_A
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    @andrew_a
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 392

    Good advice. it's more than buying at a 'cheap' price, it's actually making sure there's enough fat between your total project cost and the projected end value having done your research well. 

    I regularly notice property that sells to a renovator because it presents as a cheap price for an area, they renovate and place it back on the market in a few months only for no sale to occur as they slowly realize that the renovated product isn't going to sell for what they were hoping. 

    Profile photo of JhaiMitchellJhaiMitchell
    Member
    @jhaimitchell
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 30

    Hi ,Catalyst

    You're right "end price and reno costs." 

    Worst house in the best street so my rule of thumb.

    Make sure their is a big differed in what you are buying at and what the suburb cap price is for your particular dwelling. 

    Local agents can help guide you on this one, talk to a minimum of 3 to get a good range.

    P.S. I think Toongabbie and the Backtown areas is ideal. check out what you can buy http://www.elderstoongabbie.com.au/real-estate/buy-residential-houses/ put a garrny flat on it and $ bob is you uncle! 

    Profile photo of ChrisA1ChrisA1
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    @chrisa1
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 172

    Hi Waydo

    I'd like to re-open this post by eccoing Glen's question about the course you did. Keen to keep finding about renos, costings, research etc etc

    Cheers,

    ChrisA1

    Persistence is 'to keep on keeping on, no matter how hard the going may be'

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