All Topics / Help Needed! / Small Lot Subdivisions (2 to 5 lots) What Challenges are you facing?

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  • Profile photo of KeyStrategiesKeyStrategies
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    Hello Forum

    I was wondering if there are any other investors/developers who are out there doing or who want to do Small lot Subdivisions. I would be interested in hearing what challenges you are facing and what questions you may want answered.

    I specialise in Small lot Subdivisions in regional NSW – specifically in the Hunter Valley but have done projects in Sydney and Central QLD.

    Cheers

    Profile photo of KeyStrategiesKeyStrategies
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    Hi

    I was wondering who attended the Mega Conference in Melbourne last week and was at my presentation on Success from (Small Lot) Subdivisions. I am seeking your Feedback on what you liked/ enjoyed the most and what you may want further  information on, to be included next time?

    I look forward to hearing from you

    Cheers

    Profile photo of jim64jim64
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    Hi Michael,

    I do small sub divisions here in SA,in good growth rural areas.At present we are in the process of dividing a house on 4850sm,down to a house on 1000sm,then community title the remaining land into 5 X 5 housing blocks with the rest being common land.
    The difficulty i have experienced is you do the due dilligence with council and surveyers etc on possible conditions before you buy the land,then once development approval is obtained once you purchase the land,the conditions included have been added in after you have queried certain things.As an example we were told the entry/exit point would not entail a sealed road,a gravel point would be acceptable,now one of the conditions they want is a sealed road,which probably need the services from the road points down to the blocks,this wasnt in our original costing,what are we supposed to do here?we are obtaining civil quotes but they may make the project unprofitable.We could revert to dividing into 2 hammerheads instead,but im not sure being a private driveway(2) would require the same civil costs.Look forward to your thoughts

    Jim

    Profile photo of jonodickjonodick
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    Hi Michael

    I was at the conference in Melbourne last week and unfortunately didn’t get to your presentation. There were a couple of times over the weekend i had to choose which talk i was going to listen to…this time i might’ve got it wrong. I’m looking at places to carry out small sub-divisions around the Hunter region at the moment. If you have any info i missed on the weekend you think might be handy for me, i’d appreciate it. Failing that, i’m putting a couple of offers in very soon, so if i come across any issues i’ll let you know

    John Dickson

    Dicksons Construction Pty Ltd

    Profile photo of christianbchristianb
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    We are seeing a lot of small lot proposals of late, and it seems to be an emerging niche. Densities are being reconsidered and suburban properties are being looked at quite differently to say five years ago. In positioning ourselves as Small Lot Specialists we have given some thought to what in fact constitutes a small lot. And the answer varies according to context.

    Right now we have several proposals of three or four dwellings on 400m2 or thereabouts in front of council, and generally speaking these are being positively received and higher densities encouraged.

    The smallest lot we are working on is a proposal for 15 dwellings on 120m2 in the CBD.
    We are also working on a two lot subdivision on 240m2 in the inner suburbs.

    Success in smaller lot proposals seems to be at least partially driven by typologies. What we are seeing is an emerging type – the "apartment house" – that is a hybrid dwelling with larger than usual balcony spaces, but not necessarily any private open space at ground level. This is a very flexible approach that requires a sound understanding of the planning scheme and the stress points for this type of application.

    As Jim points out, the costs of providing services (civil engineering) to larger lots is expensive, and unless the land is valuable enough the costs don't always add up. You have probably already considered it Jim, but is it possible to get each lot directly accessing the existing road?

    Profile photo of jim64jim64
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    Yes,this was considered,but woulnt work as there is a house already on the block,forcing a hammerhead development,As the land is 120 m X 40 m the driveway handle being common land leads down to the usable land,being 3850sm.Maybe a double hammerhead would work?Any thoughts?

    Cheers !

    Profile photo of KeyStrategiesKeyStrategies
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    jimmcintyre wrote:
    Yes,this was considered,but woulnt work as there is a house already on the block,forcing a hammerhead development,As the land is 120 m X 40 m the driveway handle being common land leads down to the usable land,being 3850sm.Maybe a double hammerhead would work?Any thoughts?

    Cheers !

    Jim,

    You stated in your original post you were looking to do 5 community title lots they would have been on a common driveway/ access road I assume – Could you still do that with a lesser number of lots?

    I can understand your frustration when conditions change after you have purchased the property. The one suggestions I would make is that perhaps a condition in the contract "Subject to favourable council approval" might have saved you but too late now.

    A double Hammerhead/battleaxe is one solution so I am thinking it would be 6 metres wide part of the way then 3 meters to the very rear lot.

    If you did 2 extra lots would they be big enough for a Duplex on each site?

    Hope that Helps – Cheers

    Profile photo of KeyStrategiesKeyStrategies
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    jonodick wrote:
    Hi Michael I was at the conference in Melbourne last week and unfortunately didn't get to your presentation. There were a couple of times over the weekend i had to choose which talk i was going to listen to…this time i might've got it wrong. I'm looking at places to carry out small sub-divisions around the Hunter region at the moment. If you have any info i missed on the weekend you think might be handy for me, i'd appreciate it. Failing that, i'm putting a couple of offers in very soon, so if i come across any issues i'll let you know John Dickson Dicksons Construction Pty Ltd

    John

    I know what you mean – I was up against some good presenters on the day and very pleased to say i had a full room at each of my workshops. I am happy to advise that I recorded my last presentation – having done 3 back to back on the Friday – I am in the process of producing a CD and DVD which I hope to have available in a few weeks time. Happy to speak to you and see if I can assist with your Hunter projects.

    Cheers

    Profile photo of KeyStrategiesKeyStrategies
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    christianb wrote:
    The smallest lot we are working on is a proposal for 15 dwellings on 120m2 in the CBD.We are also working on a two lot subdivision on 240m2 in the inner suburbs.

    Christian'

    What city are you working in?  – these are really small sites

    Profile photo of jim64jim64
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    Michael,

    In doing a double hammerhead,this would give us 2 parcels of land each being 1900sm,each would then have a seperate entry/exit point,these would still be community titled as the water and sewer would be a shared service.How do we get around expensive civil works?In our current plan we have 5 blocks,if we reduce this number and increase the block sizes,will this eliminate sealed driveways etc if we reduced to 3 blocks with a common driveway?I am trying to get an answer from council as what is the max amount of blocks we can have without going down the civil road approach.

    Profile photo of jim64jim64
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    councils frustrate the livin daylights out of me.

    Profile photo of KeyStrategiesKeyStrategies
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    jimmcintyre wrote:
    councils frustrate the livin daylights out of me.

    Jim, I know what you are talking about it just took 6 months for my builder to obtain a Development approval for one Duplex and I have another one in council  since February now waiting for the engineer to review it when We have fixed EVERY issue they raised a couple of weeks ago and it's still sitting there. They (Plans) are supposed to be out within 42 days – what a joke! And then the council is screaming for rental accommodation due to the increase in workers.

    The joys of being a Property Developer.

    Profile photo of jim64jim64
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    Profile photo of DWolfeDWolfe
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    Lol, 6 mths, I wish!

    2 years on the one project with our VCAT hearing this Friday. I love developing! Everyone loves councils!

    I think the red tape is really holding back a lot of development. I'd love to know what councils people are having speedy success with.

    Michael, how is the Hunter going in general with developments and subdivisions? There seem to be a few blocks in Cessnock that are being touted as development blocks that may be undergoing rezoning. What's your take on this?

    Cheers

    D

    DWolfe | www.homestagers.com.au
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    Profile photo of KeyStrategiesKeyStrategies
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    DWolfe wrote:
    Lol, 6 mths, I wish!

    2 years on the one project with our VCAT hearing this Friday. I love developing! Everyone loves councils!
    I think the red tape is really holding back a lot of development. I'd love to know what councils people are having speedy success with.
    Michael, how is the Hunter going in general with developments and subdivisions? There seem to be a few blocks in Cessnock that are being touted as development blocks that may be undergoing rezoning. What's your take on this?
    Cheers D

    Hi D

    I agree with you – I must say that this DA was not my longest I have had one go 14 months and then on the plus I had one go thru in just on 6 weeks.

    I was in Cessnock yesterday and picked up some info on a possible duplex site and a 3 acre site with potential to subdivide into 10 or 12 lots. There are parts of the Hunter that are very short of land Singleton for example. Muswellbrook has land but its primarily controlled by one developer that is drip feeding it to the market to keep his prices up – smart business move on his part. Down around Maitland you have a few larger players like Mirvac and Stockland with large land holdings and now Walker Corporation has bought into the area also – so supply is there but its also controlled by these players. Cessnock on the other hand seems to be moving along – I am looking at the town with interest to see whats about – I have 2 projects on the go in the Hunter and I might go back up to Qld once BHP sorts out its issues with the unions. Keeping my options open at present.

    Oh and lots of work on the new Freeway – its moving along except for the rain delays and work still happening on the rail duplication.

    Cheers

    Profile photo of christianbchristianb
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    KeyStrategies wrote:
    christianb wrote:
    The smallest lot we are working on is a proposal for 15 dwellings on 120m2 in the CBD.We are also working on a two lot subdivision on 240m2 in the inner suburbs.

    Christian'

    What city are you working in?  – these are really small sites

    In Melbourne.
    The same goes for other states and territories.
    And it's not all close to the CBD, we are looking at 1:100m2 density in the outer suburbs as well.
    It's about the site and its context.

    Profile photo of christianbchristianb
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    Jim,

    You could also consider increasing the density and yield by using a "design led" application for development and subdivision. This costs a little more in planning but will almost certainly be more profitable.

    What it means is that you need to put some work into describing how the land will be used. This might be as simple as nominated building footprints or as complex as full design documentation for each proposed lot.

    Profile photo of jim64jim64
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    Hi,

    Are you reffering to a community scheme within a community title??

    Profile photo of christianbchristianb
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    Jim,

    Regardless of the planning device, there are often ways to improve the yield (or otherwise improve the outcome) by working with the municipal authorities to come up with a solution that makes the proposal commercially viable and provides a positive outcome for the council at the same time.

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