All Topics / Overseas Deals / Hmmm I wonder how MyUSA, HouseBuyersUSA, 21st Century Property, 888 Real Estate get their property?

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  • Profile photo of property_scoutproperty_scout
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    Join Date: 2011
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    In a recent post I made mention that 2 months ago I purchased a house for $23,000 in Kansas City.

    However what amazed me when I was doing the due diligence is this same house was for sale through another website called – “888 US Real Estate” and purchase price was for $45,230……. This was only 6 months earlier……

    It made me sick to think that if you are not careful, you will be slaughtered by these Aussie Agents….

    888 Real Estate had the property advertised at renting for $850/month. When I took over as landlord, it was only renting for $625.

    $625/Month is still a great return when purchasing at $23,000 but it worries me that some Aussie agent can just inflate the rental estimates to make the investment numbers look appealing, when reality is, a few months later my tenant signed a lease for $625 per month.

    Now I apologise that this post has probably smashed 888 Real Estate’s business, I realise that, but I would like to give Vincent an opportunity to explain himself and why the rent was inflated as well as the price?

    Address of this property was 3919 Euclid Ave Kansas City, google it and you will see the 888 RE listing that I found while doing my due diligence

    I don’t like to criticise the Aussie Buying Agents for charging $3,000-$5,000 per property they find (It is a service provided after all), but more point out that there is a huge American company supplying to all of these Aussie Agent’s at huge wholesale discounts and who also look after all of the LLC/Bank Set Ups/Property Management for these agents without charging the huge fees

    Hmmmm cutting out the middle man sounds good to me…

    Fortunately, I never ended up using Australian agents to purchase US property.

    I apologise for ruining the secret but http://www.americanrealestateinvestments.com supply to all of the agents out here in Australia, see for yourself…

    Good Luck

    Property_Scout

    Profile photo of Jefff1Jefff1
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    Thanks for the info, it is very useful indeed.

    Why pay buyers agents heaps when you can do it yourself.  They do rehab and manage properties as well.

    Profile photo of lawsjslawsjs
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    A good buyers agent is worth their weight in gold.

    A good multi layered marketeer will charge you gold with platinum highlights.

    Like property scout, I am all for good money to be made, but 100-500% markups makes Henry Kaye look like a Red Cross worker – his crime? He only operated in Australia. Just NOT on – and sadly ASIC is powerless to help. Do not get caught…

    Profile photo of Jefff1Jefff1
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    I know what you mean.

    On one hand I want to get good deals and not be overcharged but on the other hand I think there are some good agents that are definitely worth it.

    I have been looking at HousebuyersUSA and Top Rental Returns. Trouble is sometimes you don't know whether they are good or not until you try them and that is when you find out the truth.

    HousebuyersUSA have received good reports from others on this forum and Top Rental Returns also seem to be good although dearer than others.

    I am going to US in a couple of months so I can see for myself what the areas and properties are like.

    Profile photo of biggaz13biggaz13
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    Anyone intending on investing in properties in the USA I strongely encourage you to make the above website a part of your research. It appears excellent on the surface and if I go again, I will research this website first and bypass the buyers agent.

    "apologise for ruining the secret but http://www.americanrealestateinvestments.com supply to all of the agents out here in Australia, see for yourself…"

    Thanks property_scout for bringing it to our attention.

    Profile photo of Richard TaylorRichard Taylor
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    Yes i hate to say it is an issue and i believes one of the many problems in buying in the US.

    Thankfully the UK process of buying a property is very similar to that of many States in Australia.
    Property management is an occupation and treated seriously rather than operates as an add to Real Estate ageny sales.

    Most PM have licensed tradesman on their books to undertake any specific work and this does noot mean getting the husbband to do the job and charging double the going price.

    Old old story is due your homework and make sure the person you buy thru has a good reputation in the marketplace and owns the odd IP themselves. If they put their own money where their mouth is at least they have faith in the project.

    By the way we charge £995 as a sourcing fee for the UK which is circa $1400 AUS.

    Cheers

    Yours in Finance

    Richard Taylor | Australia's leading private lender

    Profile photo of GreaterKCHomesGreaterKCHomes
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    For my 2 cents if it's wanted.

    The best way to eliminate "brokers", is simply to check the owner of the property, and get it from them.

    Most major counties in the US, have websites that are completely free so you can find out who the owner is of any property. As a side note, the state of California does NOT give out owner information on their websites. You can get California owners, but you will have to use a pay service to get that.

    In Kansas City, Jackson county is the largest county, you can check the owner of any property by simply going to their website, and search by address. Keep in mind, it could take up to 4-6 weeks for a new owner to record in Jackson county. They are painfully slow in updating records, even though 90% of closings these days are done with e-file.

    John

    Profile photo of Nigel KibelNigel Kibel
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    Frankly trying to buy properties yourself is dangerous. I have been involved in the Texas market since 2005. We focus on the pre forclosure market and obtain properties for clients that already have financed locked in.

    If you wish to do this yourself you need to invest a great deal of time and research into you investing. In many American cities one area may be great but an area just a block or two away can be bad. Without someone on the ground to work with its makes investing a game of chance rather than investing.

    Nigel Kibel | Property Know How
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    Profile photo of HighIncomePropertyHighIncomeProperty
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    I am not surprised at all at what Property_scout is reporting.
    We have supplied properties to many Australian- and international "buyers agents" and many of them (although not all) are looking to mark up the price to make huge profits, on top of any commission they were due.
     As you can see on some American/international agencies websites, they're now offering to bring an "International buyer", which is really saying, pay our fees and we'll get you more money than your house is worth.

    Getting the property from the source is greatin theory although I'd need to second Nigel's comment right above mine that it's a minefield, a deal might look great on the surface but once you dig deeper into it, that particular block might be a "warzone", the property has liens on it, bad roof, poor management – any of a number of things. Unless you have a person on the ground, or someone with a competent team, it's a can of worms trying to do it from 10.000 miles away.

    With rentals you always need to be so careful, we are trying to stay away from the highest yielding ones now after seeing some issues with management etc, and I'm just not entirely comfortable buying homes anymore for $30-$35K that on paper brings you a return of 15-18%, once you have a few months of unpaid rent, the yield drops significantly and maintenance also tends to be more costly with those types of tenants.

    We are going down another route with most of our investors, something we have done for years and consistently got returns out of, although we still do rental properties in select areas of the country, where we have a very string network of people working with- or for us.

    [email protected]

    Profile photo of property_scoutproperty_scout
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    For all you guys coming on here and promoting why people should still use you as an agent and if you don’t it is very ‘dangerous’ ……

    Well I am sure there are some good Australian agents out there, but, being an Australian agent means one thing: you are not going to work for free and your fee will come at a cost.

    Now consider the fact that the American company supplies the exact service to your Australian Agent anyway (Fully rehabbed, and tenanted property, property management in place, access to attorneys, accountants, personal mentors) but you save over $5,000 per transaction. My god, there was at least a $15,000 price difference for that above property mentioned.

    Some companies are charging people just to look at a list of properties they have for sale! Smarten up people!!!!!!

    I started this thread to simply address an issue that would be at the forefront of all Aussie investor minds:

    Why use a buyers agent?

    Lack of education?
    Lack of time to set up LLC bank accounts etc.?
    New to US property game?
    Don’t know ins and outs of every area?

    Who would you prefer to speak to and help guide you through this process:

    Aussie company who is new to the game or the American company supplying to these guys and teaching them everything they know?

    Jefff1: americanrealestateinvestments supply all their KC property to housebuyersUSA and look after their property management, I have seen several homes advertised through these guys for an absolute premium compared to what AREI are selling the same ones for

    toprental returns have a great business going on in Atlanta and are one of the only Aussie companies I would recommend (TRReturns are based out of Atlanta so they are actually on the ground and not operating their business from their computers in say the outer suburbs of Sydney )

    Profile photo of Don NicolussiDon Nicolussi
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    Qlds007 wrote:
    By the way we charge £995 as a sourcing fee for the UK which is circa $1400 AUS.

    Richard a sourcing fee of 1400 is very reasonable for that type of work (given how much effort goes into getting contacts and starting things like that up) particularly if you can get direct access to vendors. Think you are on a winner with your uk venture. A lot of the stuff we see here in forum is MLM but if you can create a scenario with vendor – you – buyer there should still be value. What are holding costs on some of the lower priced props?

    Don Nicolussi | Mortgage Broker - Home Loan Warehouse
    http://homeloanwarehouse.com.au
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    "I think of finance as a technology, a way of getting things done." Robert Shiller

    Profile photo of PortpiratePortpirate
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    Property-Scout,
    I agree with regarding Top Rental Returns.  My only issue is that there is NO mention of maintenance costs, letting fees (1 months rent) or vacancies in their figures.  They say to allow 6 weeks per year for vacancy plus ongoing costs.  It makes a big mess of figures.

    Profile photo of property_scoutproperty_scout
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    I have never had to pay letting fees… Check that with your property manager.. Try and negotiate for future deals

    I allow 10% per year vacancy. In Kansas City it will generally take now more than 2-4 weeks max to get a new tenant in

    I allow around $300 for maintenance.

    When you look at the numbers advertised make sure you input it all into your own spreadsheet so you can see the big picture and are not misled by strategically low maintenance or lack of vacancy numbers

    Also please allow at least $800 – $1,000 when a tenant moves out and another moves in. We can usually get a new internal coat of paint and carpets repaired for under that. The American tenant mentality is a lot different to the Australian tenant. The Yanks don’t care if they lose their bond, they expect a lot more from us a landlords so you just need to realize it’s a different game over there and factor it all in

    Profile photo of dj_ajaydj_ajay
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    Love your posts property Scout!  Any chance you would be available for a chat?  PM me.

    Profile photo of nyc88nyc88
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    Property Scout, thank you for sharing the information.

    I would like to have a chat to you about your experiences and have some questions for you, however, your profile states you are ‘not accepting emails’. Would you please send me a private message?

    Thank you.

    Profile photo of biggaz13biggaz13
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    Disappointed.

    My experience.

    USA Investment Properties. Formerly MY USA Property.

    They are a buyers agent. They select properties in the USA that they feel are in decent areas and safe for Australians to invest in. You presume they scoure the area and select a variety of properties from different wholesalers and you do further research if you so desire. But you should be buying with confidence and have excellent phone support. They also espouse a national property manager who will oversee your local property manager and investment.  

    I requested that the next investment property I buy be in Kansas City.

    Reality. They went to Paragon Investors (http://www.paragoninvestors.com) and pulled off the five properties they had available in Kansas City. They then adjusted the pdf brochure on the property by removing Paragon Investors emblem and replaced it with USA Investment Properties emblem. There are no other changes to the three page pdf brochure on the five properties. 

    All my enquires to the buyers agent were simply forwarded onto the Paragon Investors. It became a lot easier and faster to get responses directly with Paragon Investors. Paragon Investors did all the work.

    At the end of it, I get a bill from USA Property Investment (Remember: formerly My USA Property) for $3,750 for their troubles. 

    It turns out Paragon Investors would have been more than happy to deal with me directly and bypass the buyers agent completely.

    Profile photo of Nigel KibelNigel Kibel
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    The problem is that for many it is far easier to just flog cheap properties to people and charge them a fee. Firstly you should do your research very carefully. One of my clients is a police officer whenever he is given a property he rings the local police station and asks them about the area. Before meeting me he dealt with another company who he found that 9 out of 10 deals were in bad areas. With my deals he had no such problem. Australians do not understand that cheap properties are often in slum areas and need to be avoided at all costs. Make sure what is happening to values because in many cities prices are still falling. In other words if you use a buyers agent ask them who they are using on the ground, because in many cases they are using agents who see Australians as there saviours. This happened in 2005 it will happen again many Australians will come to regret there purchasers

    Nigel Kibel | Property Know How
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    Profile photo of property_scoutproperty_scout
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    Biggaz,

    I completely empathize about your experience with MY USA. It is not the first bad press I have read about them. And makes me even more sick that MY USA have now rebranded?!??

    That is a similar way how I came across americanrealestateinvestments.com

    I saw an Australian broker advertise a property in KC and when doing my due diligence I stumbled across the American real estate investments website who had the same property available for $9,000 cheaper. Plus they were the company who offered the full service and were more than happy to deal with me direct as well.

    I just hope, if you pay that $3,750 broker fee, that you get bang for your buck. This is what happened to me a year ago when I was curious at what kind of chook raffle some of these brokers were running.

    My main goal was to find out how knowledgeable these brokers were on a particular city and it’s many suburban pockets. I wanted to know how intimate they were with the Area they were selling property in

    1. I had a meeting with MY USA a year ago – salesman couldn’t tell me where a nieghborhood was and had to look it up on google maps
    2. I met with 21st century – salesmen tried to convince me that Phoenix was a cash flow market and Kansas city was the capital growth market?????
    3. I had a meeting with house buyersUSA – the saleslady didn’t own any property but said “she wanted to buy one”. She also wouldn’t let me view or buy property without buying a membership of $3,000

    I mean come on…… Kansas City a Capital gains play and Phoenix the cash flow play??? And these are the same guys you trust your money

    Nigel, with all due respect, your continual self promotion on this site has lead me to ask if you could please elaborate on the fees you charge before a person even gets to see a property available for sale through you?

    Profile photo of Nigel KibelNigel Kibel
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    How am I self promoting I am stating my experience. I was doing this through an education group. However I am happy to discuss the process with anyone that is interested.
    By the way I I notice that Richard Taylor is promoting the UK. You will not find anyone more ethical or with more knowledge than Richard. He has been posting on this site longer than me.

    For the record I am not asking anyone to use my service however for some reason people seem to resent paying for advise and a service that will save you time and money. I have spent a great deal of my own money to both educate myself and establish contacts with one of the best operators that I have ever worked with.

    Now if you want to do this yourself thats great. However you will need to invest the time to gain the knowledge and in America that is not an easy task.

    Nigel Kibel | Property Know How
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    Profile photo of property_scoutproperty_scout
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    Nigel, you didn’t answer my question:

    Please elaborate on the fees you charge before a person even gets to see a property available for sale through you?

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