All Topics / Help Needed! / No Idea where to start but may have found a good opportunity

Viewing 13 posts - 1 through 13 (of 13 total)
  • Profile photo of SimkySimky
    Member
    @simky
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 23

    Hi Everyone,

    I am just dipping my toes into the investment waters and currently have 1 IP that is doing ok but not great.

    We would like to invest more and are starting to do some reasearch on the various ways to make smart investments.

    What I would have thought was smart turns out most of you dont LOL so I have alot to learn :).

    Anyway Here is my question.

    My mum told me today the person next door is selling and has had agents through and they are putting the house on the market at below the median price for the area, it does need work, how much I am not sure yet.

    But my thoughts are should mum want to move on in a few years we could sell both houses at the same time and make more money out of them either by developing them ourselves or selling to a developer.

    Does this sound like a smart thing to do and what kind of questions do I need to ask to make sure its right ??

    I have no idea the actual size of the block next door yet, but I am guessing mums is at least 900 ish.

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

    Profile photo of Jacqui MiddletonJacqui Middleton
    Participant
    @jacm
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 2,539

    Certainly have a chat to your local council to understand the zoning of the two properties.  In other words, what would they allow you to build on them if the existing houses were knocked down, and a an alternative, what the minimum block sizes would need to be if you decided to carve them up into pieces and sell them off.  You'll also want to know what's under the ground in terms of pipes.  Easements and sewer pipes.  Such things are expensive or disallowed to move and can restrict what you can and cannot do.

    Jacqui Middleton | Middleton Buyers Advocates
    http://www.middletonbuyersadvocates.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    VIC Buyers' Agents for investors, home buyers & SMSFs.

    Profile photo of Ryan McLeanRyan McLean
    Participant
    @ryan-mclean
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 547

    You need to consider this as a standalone investment. Yes selling 2 houses together can attract developers and you can get more money. But is the property going to go up in value anyway?
    Is it going to support itself while you own it?
    What happens if your mum doesn't decide to move on?

    I would always look at this as an investment by itself because you DON'T own the property next door. So you don't have the ultimate decision on that property.

    I would instead look to invest for strong cash flow and capital gains. Then if your mum sells then its just a bit of a bonus.

    Alternatively get together with your mum and see if you can develop the two sites. Maybe together you can turn the 2 house into a block of units and make a killing?

    Ryan McLean
    CashFlow Investor
    Read my blog post: How To Buy More Property – 10 Ways To Boost Your Portfolio

    Ryan McLean | On Property
    http://onproperty.com.au
    Email Me

    Profile photo of Jamie MooreJamie Moore
    Participant
    @jamie-m
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 5,069

    As JacM mentioned above – your local council should be your first point of contact if the primary reason for purchasing this property is for future development potential.

    Cheers

    Jamie

    Jamie Moore | Pass Go Home Loans Pty Ltd
    http://www.passgo.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Mortgage Broker assisting clients Australia wide Email: [email protected]

    Profile photo of SimkySimky
    Member
    @simky
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 23

    Thanks, 
     
    I will speak to the town planner and see what info I get, I know the property is valued low due to the market atm and that it needs work, its a 4 bedroom and it would be a long term thing as I am not planning on mum moving or anything for a long time, if the development aspect works out better then that could change things.

    Should the slope of the land concern me as th block is not flat and is on top of a small rise , its not by any means extreme but to give you an idea there is a retaining wall between the blocks and the road with alot of the houses.

    Should I be speaking to the likes od Millar Merigan development consulatants ?
     
    If its not on the market yet would you approach him directly ??

    So many questions LOL

    Thanks

    Profile photo of DerekDerek
    Member
    @derek
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 3,544

    Hi Simky,

    I think you need to step back first.

    At the moment your focus seems to be on this block and the possibilities/options it may provide. Now the options in themselves may be quite reasonable BUT what about the bigger picture.

    What sort of area is the property in from an investment/property values/economic point of view? You will need to be objective in this evaluation because you are making a business decision. Make sure the decision you make is based on solid, logical fundamentals and not emotional factors because it is the house next door.

    How would you feel if your mother hung around for a while and delayed your 'development' plans? 

    So step back and look at the bigger picture too.

    All the best with it.

    Profile photo of SimkySimky
    Member
    @simky
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 23

    Thanks Derek,

    Yes I have considered that mum may not move on until she is either in a nursing home or falls off her perch( God forbid ) so I know this will be a very long term investment, I suppose I like the value of being able to have eyes and ears about the place so to speak and that the propety itself is a low price for the area.

    I dont think it is a high growth area considering that the land values dont rise terribly much but just looking at the records value of a simialr 4 bedroom property this year Median price is around $400,000 and last year at around $ 468,000 if he is looking for around 390,000 ( we would hope to get it lower of course) then surely the value would be in it when the place gets fixed up a bit and we hold on to it.

    I suppose it is all if , buts and maybes at the moment as there are alot of questions as to the following:

    1. What the town planner has to say.
    2. What the actual land size works out to be.
    3. What kind of work needs done.

    I will do some more homework on that front and see what that brings.

    We have been looking for somewhere and I just figured if the sums are good as a stand on its own and it happens to be next door to mums and that in the future she decides to move to the country (she keeps saying she will) then all the better if we can cash in on a development later down the track .

    Any other advice on what you would be looking at would be greatly appreciated, as Like you said I cant get emotionally involved and it will be just business.

    Thanks Heaps to everyone

    Profile photo of DerekDerek
    Member
    @derek
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 3,544

    Hi SImky,

    It sounds as if your mother is reasonable 'nick' so it is possible she may be around for a while (hopefully so of course) – this may present some problems for you as some people are really tied to the family home and she may be reluctant to move out ahead of schedule.

    Of course it is possible you may be able to come to some arrangement that sees her moving into one of the properties after completion. While this means she isn't in the family home she is still living in her local area. Obviously there may be tax and related issues with this.

    If your mother presents a 'stumbling block' to your plans and she hangs around for a while you will need to consider the income/costs of holding the neighbours property prior to development taking place. It is possible you may be able to develop the neighbours property before mums property becomes available. The first development may be part 1 of a master plan.

    I would not be overly worried by short term deviations in the median price. There are a number of places in Australia with similar median price fluctuations. The numbers you quote are not abnormal.

    In terms of fundamentals;
    1, What is the nature of typical housing in the area? Is a development out of the ordinary and would stick out like a sore thumb? Is there demand for that type of property?
    2. How are the employment prospects for the area? What sort of median incomes are there? Any plans for private/government development?
    3. What are the local shopping facilities, schools, public transport, like?
    4. Socio-economic factors?

    And so on.

    Hope this helps.

    Profile photo of SimkySimky
    Member
    @simky
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 23

    Hi Everyone,

    I have made some enquires with the local town planner and they see no reason we could not build 4 townhouses on the block, just having a look at Steves suggestions of buying ugly this gives me a little hope even if we decide not to subdivide we could renovate and still hopefully make some money back, the house has been on the market now for a couple of weeks and already the price has dropped from 390k to 374k so my hope would be to get the property at around 350k. any advice on negotiating would be appreciated. The suburb is not a suburb that has a fast rate of increased value but I think it will only get better in time as land gets scarce. It is on a main road though. Thoughts?

    Thanks Simone

    Profile photo of Jacqui MiddletonJacqui Middleton
    Participant
    @jacm
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 2,539

    Determine what the houses would sell for AS THEY ARE NOW

    Then compare it to what they'd sell for if you reno'd them a bit.  Remember to deduct costs of renovation.

    Then compare that to what the townhouses would sell for, and deduct costs (demolition, planning application fees, build fees, bank interest…)

    If the end result is that you wouldn't achieve more money with the townhouses, then don't bother.

    Jacqui Middleton | Middleton Buyers Advocates
    http://www.middletonbuyersadvocates.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    VIC Buyers' Agents for investors, home buyers & SMSFs.

    Profile photo of DerekDerek
    Member
    @derek
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 3,544

    Hi Simone,

    Before you go too much further I would also recommend you speak to a good broker (particularly one who has IPs themselves) – getting finance for developments is not an easy walk in the park, particularly if you are a novice.

    Banks are risk averse and there may be some restrictions on what you can and cannot do from a lending perspective.

    In terms of negotiation – check the market in the area, do your research and frame your negotiations around solid market evidence. Given the property is on a main road – chances are the buyers will not see a lot of interest anyway. Time and place is on your side.

    Profile photo of wisepearlwisepearl
    Member
    @wisepearl
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 264

    Someone mentioned above that if your Mum plans to stay in her house longterm, you will need to be able to afford to hold onto the property until such time as a development could begin. The house will need work to make it tenantable for now, by the sounds of it.

    Without knowing the suburb or median rents, and to give a broad generalisation, its pretty hard to find a house these days where if you purchase it with a 20% deposit and 80% loan the income covers the mortgage repayments. The house may end up costing you some money each month just to hold it for some possible capital growth and some possible future development. Be aware that to purchase it with an 80% loan, you’ll need 20% deposit + approx 5% closing costs + 5-10% renovations + holding costs for time of reno and advertising for a tenant.

    Don’t be a pioneer in the suburb. As Derek suggested, drive around your suburb. Are there any other sites with a four townhouse development on them? If there is, don’t be afraid to ask for the builder and ask for a very rough quote on building something similar. For a gentle sloping block you should add at least 7% to the cost, for a difficult block with steeper slope add 20% to rhe construction cost.

    I admire your interest and enquiries, and do agree that two neighbouring properties allow for more opportunity for standalone blocks. But as others have suggested, don’t forget all the other due diligence and research and be confident with the suburb from an investment point of view, and the location of the block. If the fact that its next door to your mum’s is the final icing on the cake, that’s great. But it should not be the reason for investing.

    Don’t be scared by the overwhelming task of developing, there are loads of project managers out there who can oversee it on your behalf. This months API magazine features an “armchair developer” who is a ski instructor and outsourced the entire thing.

    Good luck :)
    Emma

    Profile photo of christianbchristianb
    Participant
    @christianb
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 386

    Reading through this thread, there's much to consider.
    In terms of the planning or development potential I'll make a couple of points you may wish to consider:

    1. There more land you have, generally speaking, the greater scope for subdivision and development. This is especially true if you have a good street frontage.
    2. There may be an opportunity for your mother to move into the planned development, thereby downsizing whilst staying put.
    3. If you are only paying the holding costs for one property, but planning the development of two (in some sort of arrangement with your family) your costs are less than they otherwise would be.
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