All Topics / Help Needed! / Strata Admin fund is in debt

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  • Profile photo of sc541sc541
    Member
    @sc541
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 18

    Hi all,

    I was about to put in an offer on a property but the strata report has come back and has noted that the Strata Admin fund is in debt of about $6000 in a block of 10 lots. Now I’m not so sure whether or not to go ahead with this purchase.

    From July 1st this year, they’re going to increase the levies by approx $400 which is about a 35% increase, which I’m guessing is to offset this debt.

    Is this amount of debt acceptable or does a debt usually mean red flag (don’t buy)?

    The report has noted there are NO special levies in the foreseeable future…but it is an old block that will need repairs/maintenance as it gets even older

    Some advice would be appreciated as this is the first strata block I’m potentially buying into.

    Thanks

    Profile photo of CatalystCatalyst
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    @catalyst
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 1,404

    If $600 makes the difference between you buying and not buying a property you are in the wrong game.

    What about the $7000 stamp duty plus solicitors costs, bank charges. Have you taken these into account?

    The increased levies would be worth considering though. Admin funds usually run close to the mark. No use having lots of excess funds sitting around. What about the sinking fund. How much is in that. That's the one that you want a bit of money in.

    Profile photo of sc541sc541
    Member
    @sc541
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 18

    Thanks for your reply Catalyst.

    The Admin fund is in debt of $6,000, not $600

    Sinking fund has about $20,000

    What are your thoughts?

    Profile photo of Jamie MooreJamie Moore
    Participant
    @jamie-m
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 5,069

    Catalyst is right – it’s the sinking fund that you’d want to see some funds in.

    Use it as a point of negotiation with the vendor.

    Cheers

    Jamie

    Jamie Moore | Pass Go Home Loans Pty Ltd
    http://www.passgo.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Mortgage Broker assisting clients Australia wide Email: [email protected]

    Profile photo of sc541sc541
    Member
    @sc541
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 18

    Thanks for that Jamie.

    Would you say in a block of 10 lots, $20,000 is enough in the sinking fund?

    What are your thoughts on the Admin fund being in debt of $6,000?

    Profile photo of Scott No MatesScott No Mates
    Participant
    @scott-no-mates
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 3,856

    I would be asking why the administration find is in deficit & why a motion hasn’t been made to transfer funds between the accounts – funds cannot be in deficit as it is in breach of the strata act.

    What is the 5 year budget for the sinking fund?

    Are unit owners in arrears? What is the strata management doing about it?

    Profile photo of Jamie MooreJamie Moore
    Participant
    @jamie-m
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 5,069

    Yep, sounds like you’ve got some non paying owners coupled with lazy strata management. I must admit – I’ve never heard of an admin fund being in deficit.

    $20k in a sinking fund isn’t a huge amount but I think you mentioned that no special levies were anticipated.

    I’d look carefully through the minutes and talk to the strata mangers in respect to this point. I was reading through some strata minutes a couple of months back for an IP I was interested in. They had to raise a special levy because the roof (it was an old unit complex) needed urgent replacing – costing a cool $80k (about $6k per owner). This sent the sinking fund to $0 (which is less than ideal) but it also presented an opportunity because the REA disclosed the sinking fund being depleted (which meant most buyers went running). The result being a massive drop in price (it was a repossession sale as well). However, the strata minutes recorded that no future work (to that sort of degree) was anticipated for the near future and the new roof had worked a treat.

    To me, I saw it as a decent buy (considering all the other owners had paid for a new roof) and I was getting it for $40k less because no one would touch it (due to the sinking fund having no money). Even is another special levy was raised in the near future – and I had to fork out $5k to $10k (I’m still better off by quite a bit).

    However, as keen as I was on this one – as soon as I left the strata managers office (after reading through the minutes) I called the REA and told him I was buying it…..he told me it sold an hour earlier…..oh well, there’s always next time.

    Cheers

    Jamie

    Jamie Moore | Pass Go Home Loans Pty Ltd
    http://www.passgo.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Mortgage Broker assisting clients Australia wide Email: [email protected]

    Profile photo of xdrewxdrew
    Participant
    @xdrew
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 479

    I wouldnt let a probably necessary increase in the strate fees dissuade you from purchasing the property. The mix is always making sure that the strata fees and the water bills and the maintainence of the unit is less than what you are coughing up in rent. Thats how you make money on an investment.

    HOWEVER there are lots of owner schemas (body corps, owner corporations) where they run things at a barest minimum and expect that they are saving money ! THATS WRONG TOO ! If you have a house .. every couple of years the roof may need attention .. the fence may need a new coat of paint .. etc etc. Why shouldnt you expect the same from your owner management?

    Too little and you end up treating the property badly anyway. I have a couple of units in one block in Greater Dandenong which was bought cheap. And to start off .. its body corp (now owners corporation in VIC) was about 375 bucks a quarter. However this had been carried across from it being a el-cheapo set of units (around 70k a unit) in about 1997. Now this also means that the property was WAAAY underinsured. If the block had burnt down .. i would have got the 70k it was insured for .. instead of the 280k its now worth. Can you see a subtle difference?

    The point is .. i've got to the owners meeting and requested that a block that is so used to being treated at one level (under 150k) start being treated at another level (the nearly 300k that it is). It means proper care .. better management .. revaluation to proper insurance levels and an increase in body corp fees per quarter to $530 per quarter. Its a big jump .. but then the properties have quadrupled in value since the last assesment. Its about time they were respected as such.

    With a minor debt in the management sink fund, i wouldnt be panicking about anything. If the genuine figures add up, buy it.

    Lots of body managements run underfunded and undermanaged. I'd be suggesting the idea that they are raising the fee to stabilise the debt a good sign that the management firm is now taking control of the situation and moving on. And good strata management is a key strategy to passive owner property management.

    Profile photo of sc541sc541
    Member
    @sc541
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 18

    Thanks for all your responses.

    I tried calling the strata manager but they said they cannot answer any of my questions. They can only answer questions from the sales agent with permission from the vendor. Is this correct?

    Profile photo of Scott No MatesScott No Mates
    Participant
    @scott-no-mates
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 3,856

    Probably right, as neither yourself nor the agent actually has a relationship with the strata manager. So direct you queries back to the selling agent.

    Profile photo of Jamie MooreJamie Moore
    Participant
    @jamie-m
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 5,069
    sc541 wrote:
    Thanks for all your responses.

    I tried calling the strata manager but they said they cannot answer any of my questions. They can only answer questions from the sales agent with permission from the vendor. Is this correct?

    Yep, but the selling agent should be able to provide you with written authority to inspect the minutes, etc. There’s usually a small admin fee involved but it’s worth it.

    Cheers

    Jamie

    Jamie Moore | Pass Go Home Loans Pty Ltd
    http://www.passgo.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Mortgage Broker assisting clients Australia wide Email: [email protected]

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