All Topics / Help Needed! / Build Vs Buy

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  • Profile photo of ShOw_Me_ThE_MoNeYShOw_Me_ThE_MoNeY
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    @show_me_the_money
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 80

    Hi Guys,
    Having a dream house ( to live) in a well planned estate has allways fascinated me. I am trying to ascertain 2 options here:

    Option 1. Buy a block of land (say 150K) + Ask one of our famous developers to build me a home (say 200 K). I am talking about a house and land package here.

    Option 2: Buy a block of land (say 150K) + Get an architect to deign+ manually source the material required for construction.

    and i strongly beleive that i would be able to save some money with option 2 as i would be doing the project management myself in regards to sourcing the materials etc etc.

    What are your thoughts on these 2 options? will option 2 give me a lot of savings?

    Profile photo of nikikbnikikb
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    @nikikb
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 10

    Hi,
    I understand your thought-developers make extrodinary profits on each house,depending.However,they do get all the materials,labour and inspections at cost price.They have also made quite a profit from the land.If you have individually priced everything, i would be interested to see exactly how much you will save.On top of that you have to run around so your time is money too.Maybe you can find an independant builder who would be happy to let you do your own pricing and work for a specific area. eg-interior,like the kitchen,bathroom,etc or anything.Good luck and keep us posted!

    Profile photo of ShOw_Me_ThE_MoNeYShOw_Me_ThE_MoNeY
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    @show_me_the_money
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 80

    yes in option 2 i was looking at hiring individual developers. regarding time i am not worried as dad’s retired and ready to help me oversee the construction. do you know anyone who has gone ahead with option 2? i would like to know whether there will be much of a price difference between the 2 options?

    Profile photo of Mortgage HunterMortgage Hunter
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    @mortgage-hunter
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 3,781
    Originally posted by nikikb:

    Hi,
    I understand your thought-developers make extrodinary profits on each house,depending.

    Some make extraordinary losses.

    Without experience and in the current market I would suggest that enthusiasm and time is not all that is needed to make an extraordinary profit.

    [blink]

    Simon Macks
    Residential and Commercial Finance Broker
    [email protected]
    0425 228 985

    Comments may not be relevant to individual circumstances. If you intend making any investment, financial or taxation decision you should consult a professional adviser.

    Profile photo of nikikbnikikb
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    @nikikb
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 10

    Simon,
    I was refering to the experienced and established developers,not the build-your-own-home ones! My point was,they have the resources they need at their fingertips,everything at cost price,we don’t.
    Show me the money-my uncle built his own home and it was alot of heartache-and he is a builder.He saved around 30,000. If it’s going to be your ‘dream home’you can still be involved,i know i would.Get prices before you start and make sure everything is taken into account-remember murphy’s law!.In the mean time i’ll try and find some more information for you.

    Profile photo of ShOw_Me_ThE_MoNeYShOw_Me_ThE_MoNeY
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    @show_me_the_money
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 80

    Thanks Nikikb! As you mentioned about your uncle building the house and saving money – i fear the same delimna and that why i am trying to learn from people’s experience. Getting involved in your dream house definitely gives a lot of confidence, satisfaction and may be $$avings….but it comes at a cost……

    By the way does any one know whether the stamp duty is included in the cost of the house and land packages? or is it an additional cost?

    I am looking at buying a block of land now and start the construction in 12 months time ( yet to decide whether i’ll do it myself of get the developers ie people who are the owners of the estate to build it for me). So would i be required to get the plans and permits approved even tho if i select a house from their offerings?

    Profile photo of JFisherJFisher
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    @jfisher
    Join Date: 2007
    Post Count: 143

    I think there are a few things to consider here Show-me-the-Money (SMTM).
    For your first option.
    Organizing and timing trades and costs efficiently are critical to a job coming in on budget especially at the moment with costs and trade rates rising (skills shortage) so in order to keep prices attractive many of the larger companies will mass produce plans and any changes made incur variations to you purely due to the time taken to change. These building companies also negotiate lower prices with their tradies as a substitute for the quantity of work that they will get from them. If variations to the dwelling are made then you will get a variation to the contract that isn’t in your favour as this is when these guys are able to make their money (usually whether the variation reduced the price or not). Developers who also build will also reduce the margins on the land and/or building to make it cheaper for them to do the total job rather than have someone buy the land and employ another builder to do the home. This is becomming more common where we live. We are custom builders and if we want to build a spec home we get charged full price from the developer to buy his land, we then have to build the home and include our own margin on it to make it viable. For the developer he is able to build the exact same house and sell the package for less as he didn’t charge out his land (to himself) at the same retail price and when the new home market is slowing this is exactly what happens.
    We often get asked why we haven’t built our own new home as we are builders. The answer is simple-It costs us nearly as much as it costs everyone else. Most people have an unrealistic notion of how much profit is in the final product, which is why nikikb’s father only saved $30K, and I say only because he probably didn’t charge out his own labour for his own house. If he had that $30K saving would have been lower. Unless you are trade qualified to do some of the work then you will probably not save even this much. I do not know a single custom builder that uses a project manager to organize their jobs – we don’t , we do it all ourselves to ensure that the job runs on time and that we don’t loose money on the job. If you are in a larger city and the developer/builder uses PM’s then you may be able to take it on but there could be reservations on their part if they are concerned about your experience costing them time and money. If you decided to go owner builder and employ all your own trades then you would pay more for initial building permits and also for warranty insurance if you ever sold the house. Unless you have trade contacts you may also find it hard to ensure trades turn up on time and woe to you if they do and the job isn’t suitably prepared for them (that idle time means money they are not earning). An architect who is doing a custom design will almost definately charge more for the plans compared to the mass drafted plans of the big companies so this is eating into your savings as well. Once you remove the GST from $200K you are left with approx $181K. Remove from that permits, engineering, architects and insurance and you have b/n $170-4K left. How many squares of living do you want to build? $170K isn’t going to go far for a custom home. Even we as builders cannot compete with the prices of the big companies, but we certainly can on quality and finish and this is where our niche is. If the bottom line is your bottom line then I would suggest that you get one of the mass builders to build you a home. While they are doing it watch, learn and get as involved as you can and then you will get a good idea if you can handle it next time. Make sure you do all your homework before you make your mind up and good luck. Julie

    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
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    @l.a-aussie
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 1,488
    Originally posted by ShOw_Me_ThE_MoNeY:

    Hi Guys,
    Having a dream house ( to live) in a well planned estate has allways fascinated me. I am trying to ascertain 2 options here:

    Option 1. Buy a block of land (say 150K) + Ask one of our famous developers to build me a home (say 200 K). I am talking about a house and land package here.

    Option 2: Buy a block of land (say 150K) + Get an architect to deign+ manually source the material required for construction.

    and i strongly beleive that i would be able to save some money with option 2 as i would be doing the project management myself in regards to sourcing the materials etc etc.

    What are your thoughts on these 2 options? will option 2 give me a lot of savings?

    The only concern I have with Option 1 is the big boys can tend to cut corners on the quality to get the price – eg; the gaps between the wall frames are sometimes more than you would like – it is still legal, but you may get buckling in the plaster, the paint job is usually average, they use less nails etc, etc.

    On top of that, you get a house which is very similar to others in the estate (maybe a different facade).

    We are planning to do your Option2 on a block we own when we get back from the USA. Like you, it will be our PPoR when it is finished.

    I have built a house (had it built) previously and after watching that interesting experience I don’t mind handling the management of the process myself to save a few thousand, I have the time, and it will be fun as I need a project to occupy my dull mind.

    I think the critical factor in ours/your decision is time. If you are in no hurry to build, and have the time to oversee those unreliable tradesman, then go for it as I will be.

    Our plan is to have an architect design the house using our preferences, then we are going to tender out each section of the building process to the relevant tradesmen. This may involve getting 3 or 4 quotes on things like framing, electrical, plumbing, roofing, etc.

    I don’t know yet whether to try and source/supply the materials myself – the tradesman can usually get them cheaper than me, but quite often they over-order and take the left overs for themselves for future jobs, so you end up paying more than you should anyway. I may just call for quotes on the labour, and source the materials.

    I think the overall process should save a fair amount of money. The architect design will no doubt eat into the savings I suspect, but the end result should be a good quality, unique product that was a fun? project.

    Cheers,
    Marc.
    [email protected]

    “we get sent lemons; it’s up to us to make lemonade”

    Profile photo of ShOw_Me_ThE_MoNeYShOw_Me_ThE_MoNeY
    Member
    @show_me_the_money
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 80

    Hey Guys, I appreciate your ideas and thanks for sharing your experiences with me. Having read the pros and cons i have decided to go ahead with option no 1. I think a house and land package would be ideal for me keeping in mind my circumstances. THanks again and i shall be starting a new post as am bubbling with ideas at the moment, needless to say i need to learn from your experiences with the new venture i am gonna start (hopefully soon)!

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