All Topics / General Property / More than 5 properties?

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  • Profile photo of believenothingbelievenothing
    Participant
    @believenothing
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 4

    The following was taken from “Today’s Tip” on July 23:

    Only 1 in 200 property investors owns more than 5 properties.

    If owning property was such a great idea then wouldn’t it make sense to own as many as possible?

    Yet when you consider that only 1 in 200 property investors owns more than five investment properties, you have to conclude that something is horribly wrong.

    And it is!

    Many investors are fooled into buying property that was created specifically to lose money. They are duped into buying when these property dogs are sold as was to save tax.

    Of course not all property investments lose money. Great deals still exist that will allow you to make money from day one.

    But you’re going to have to think a little differently from the pack and seek education that isn’t provided by the mainstream wealth educators.

    If you’re looking for something that will reveal the truth about property investing and why so many investors end up with much less then you’ve come to the right place!

    Interesting. But let’s think about it for a second. Let’s just say that 5% of the population (just 5%, no more) were interested in investing in property. They read a few books and go to Steve’s seminars. They decide that property is their investment vehicle.

    So they hit the streets and buy some properties. They each buy two properties (a reasonable assumption, they may have saved one deposit, and then use the equity from their own home for the other). After a while with the positive cashflow from these first two properties, and their increased confidence, they buy another two. Each now has four properties. With the market steadily rising, it’s not impossible for these property investors to buy ten investment properties in a few years. Fair enough?

    But let’s do some numbers. Out of 20 people, 1 person invests in property (1/20 = 5%). He now has 11 properties (including his own house), and with the substantial cashflow from these he is able to keep investing in more properties. He already owns 55% of the properties (11/20 = 55%), and this value is increasing. One of the original 20 people decides to buy property, but finds out that there simply isn’t enough for him now. Just like the properties on a Monopoly board, there is only a finite number, and it’s impossible for everyone can own ‘more than five’. (Imagine if just 10% of the population owned 10 properties each?) There is no right or wrong about it, it’s simple maths.

    Whilst I’m in the mood, let’s also look at the concept of ‘positive gearing’. This was the main strategy in Steve’s first highly-advertised book.

    If I want to buy a place to live in, I’ll most likely go a bank and get a mortgage. For every $100,000 I borrow, I’m going to pay back around $8,500 per year in principle and interest (assuming an interest rate of about 7%). So if I lived in a $100,000 house, my repayments would be about $8,500 per year (rough figures, but appreciate the concept). But wait, if I were to rent a ‘positively geared’ property, it’ll cost me $9,000 or more to rent, for every $100,000 the property is worth (or $10,400 according to Steve’s 11 second solution). So my money goes straight to the bank never to be seen again, and then straight to the landlord never to be seen again. How appealing.

    So when people wonder why so many people own so few properties, do some simple maths to find the answers.

    But I could be wrong, so tell me

    What do you believe?

    Profile photo of DazzlingDazzling
    Member
    @dazzling
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 1,150

    What’s the big deal about owning a large quantity of properties. I’d go for quality every time.

    I’d rather own one office block worth 13 MM, than own 130 poxy little houses / units / flats worth 100K each. What a nightmare. No thanks.

    I’d be very happy to be in the ‘under five’ class.

    Cheers,

    Dazzling

    “No point having a cake if you can’t eat it.”

    Profile photo of Don NicolussiDon Nicolussi
    Participant
    @don
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 1,086

    YES! THAT IS YOUR PREFERENCE BUT HAVING MY ENTIRE NET WORTH IN ONE BUILDING POSSIBLY AT THE MERCY OF A SINGLE TENANT? THAT WOULD BE CRAZY. NO THANKS

    NO CHANCE TO SPREAD RISK OR TAKE ADVANTAGE OF DIFFERENT CAP GROWTH TRENDS IN DIFFERENT AREAS OR CLASSES OF INVESTMENT. HAVING YOUR ENTIRE WEALTH FIXED IN ONE INVESTMENT IS PROBABLY A BIT QUESTIONABLE.

    CHEERS

    Don Nicolussi | Mortgage Broker - Home Loan Warehouse
    http://homeloanwarehouse.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    "I think of finance as a technology, a way of getting things done." Robert Shiller

    Profile photo of DazzlingDazzling
    Member
    @dazzling
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 1,150

    Don & Liz,

    Who said anything about tying up your entire net worth in one building ?? What are you talking about ?? Owning a 13 MM block doesn’t preclude you from owning other assets ?? You need to widen your scope just a tad.

    Multiple tenancies are the norm, locked up with long term iron clad leases with blue chip tenants like top 100 companies and State and Federal Governments…now that’s low risk…unless you know nothing about them, then of course they are very risky. Dealing with 130 different Mr & Mrs Low Income…now that’s risky.

    You may have the same amount or more in different classes of assets and a small smattering of different types of property.

    “HAVING YOUR ENTIRE WEALTH FIXED IN ONE INVESTMENT IS PROBABLY A BIT QUESTIONABLE.” No it’s not, it’s downright imprudent, but then who is suggesting that ??

    Cheers,

    Dazzling

    “No point having a cake if you can’t eat it.”

    Profile photo of castoncaston
    Participant
    @caston
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 58

    Why not buy a house with projected high capital growth, build a new kitchen and turn the existing kitchen into a master bedroom with ensuite while you live in it for 12 months. Then sell and put the capital gain down as the deposit on a commerical?

    Profile photo of Don NicolussiDon Nicolussi
    Participant
    @don
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 1,086
    Don & Liz,

    Who said anything about tying up your entire net worth in one building ?? What are you talking about ?? Owning a 13 MM block doesn’t preclude you from owning other assets ?? You need to widen your scope just a tad.

    I’ll give you that one Dazzling! I don’t mind saying that my net worth is not 13 mill and this is probably why I was thinking that way.

    But there are some other issues with the corporate tenant. eg It may be hard to recover funds or rents from structures that no longer exit or go into bankruptcy. Individuals will also default but going into bankruptcy due to rent arrears is probably not that common (i’m guessing).

    In previous posts you have mentioned investing as a group in these sorts of investments which is probably the way to do it.

    In fact I would probably swap one of my poxy houses for a share in this sort of investment. Probably more for the experience I would gain rather than anything else.

    So how about it? A few of us can sell one and get together and buy an office building (just one to start).

    Or there is the other option of a margin loan and lpt’s. That does not sound like as much fun though!

    Don Nicolussi | Mortgage Broker - Home Loan Warehouse
    http://homeloanwarehouse.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    "I think of finance as a technology, a way of getting things done." Robert Shiller

    Profile photo of DazzlingDazzling
    Member
    @dazzling
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 1,150

    Scale is an overpowering thing, isn’t it ?? It changes your thinking, your opinions, your tactics, the assets you buy, the tenants you attract, the finance deals you cut and basically your entire outlook.

    I should probably retract the initial ‘poxy’ comment. This probably got you offside. If a 100K house is your pride and joy that you are struggling to pay off, it is probably inappropriate for me to term them as such…even though that is how I would accuartely describe them.

    I tell ya, if your ‘corporate tenant’ is the State or Fed Govt…lotsa places like this, and they go bankrupt or cease to exist, then boy, the whole country will go down the gurgler…being a Landlord out of pocket will probably be the least of your worries.

    Hmmm, getting together as a group to buy a substantial asset like a 10 MM office block…not the type of comm. property to cut your teeth on really. Probably best to buy something small for 100 or 200K, learn 80% of the lessons and terms of the deal before trying something of that magnitude.

    When you get up into these deals, trust between the partners also becomes a huge deal, and the financial weightiness of each partner…sometimes you need deep pockets.

    What exactly did you have in mind and what specifically could you bring to the table on such a deal ??

    Cheers,

    Dazzling

    “No point having a cake if you can’t eat it.”

    Profile photo of munjymunjy
    Member
    @munjy
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 129

    Believenothing,

    Why do you say only 5% of the population are property investors? I don’t understand where this assumption comes from. Are you saying its impossible for more than 1 in 200 investors to own more than 5 properties? Or are you saying that the value of property HAS to rise as there are only so many squares on a monopoly board?

    In any case, 100% of the property is owned at any one time. You have to buy it off someone. And the property market is difficult to look at in such static terms.

    And the thing with the statistics is that it’s hard to say in comm/industrial/etc property is included in that.

    I think that I’m confusing myself with the simple maths!

    Profile photo of Don NicolussiDon Nicolussi
    Participant
    @don
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 1,086

    Hi Dazzling,

    If a 100K house is your pride and joy that you are struggling to pay off, it is probably inappropriate for me to term them as such…even though that is how I would accuartely describe them.

    We all have to be careful on these forums not to make assumptions about the other contributors experiences and so on.

    The tenants pay off our houses and capital growth takes care of the rest. This may not be everyones experience with RIPS but that is the way it has worked out for us.

    Cheers

    Don Nicolussi | Mortgage Broker - Home Loan Warehouse
    http://homeloanwarehouse.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    "I think of finance as a technology, a way of getting things done." Robert Shiller

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