All Topics / Value Adding / Duplex feasability, cost and risk

Viewing 10 posts - 1 through 10 (of 10 total)
  • Profile photo of richardcassrichardcass
    Member
    @richardcass
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 7

    I was wondering if anybody could help me with my maths!

    My wife and I, along with her brother and his wife are looking to go four ways on a loan, buy a property in Sydney near to where we all grew up, and build a duplex on it – one side for us to live in and the other for them. I am not too worried about the value of the developed property in the short term as we plan to live in the duplex for a number of years while our kids grow up. I guess I need some advice regarding my calculations on the overall feasibility of this project as well as our ability to make sure we can service the loan – as I see it, the main way that we could get burned by this experience is if we get most of the way through the development, decide we can’t service the loan anymore and have to sell for less than we have spent. In ensuring this doesn’t happen, I need to do my calculations now and I’m finding that the overall development costs are hard to work out, thereby leaving me with a few questions about whether we can pull this off.

    We are looking at building 2 equal sized attached residences, on quite a flat block of land, with the following basic specs:
    Around 175sqm per residence
    2 x 4 bedrooms
    2 x single garage
    Open plan living/kitchen area
    2 storeys (bedrooms + main bathroom upstairs, living downstairs)
    Tile downstairs, carpet upstairs
    Slab on ground with in floor heating
    Fire and sound rated centre wall
    Brick veneer (rendered)
    Parapet roof
    Basic to medium fit out
    Basic landscaping

    From reading the forums, doing some research and speaking to architects and builders, I get the impression that we are looking at around $1200 per sqm to build (And I understand this is approximate). So here are my questions:

    1. Does $1200 per sqm seem reasonable?
    2. Is $1200 per sqm roughly what a builder would charge me, (or is this purely a how much it costs a builder to build therefore I need to include the builders profit margin as well)
    3. Does around $10,000 seem OK for basic landscaping (total building size is 350sqm, land is 580sqm less driveways and side passages) I’m not thinking about much more than turf at the moment
    4. Does $15,000 for plans, working drawings and council application fees seem reasonable
    5. If that all adds up to around $450,000 and I add in around 10% contingency for demolition, service disconnection and reconnection fees, cost of building the council sidewalk at the front, etc – is $45,000 reasonable to allow for these extra hidden costs?

    If all that adds up OK – we are looking at a total construction cost of around $490,000 including some basic landscaping, council and architect fees. Land purchase price is around $725,000 and we will have paid around $65,000 in interest prior to and during construction and around $30,000 in stamp duty. So our total costs are around $1.3M ($650,000 per couple). A similar duplex development in the same street has recently sold both residences at around $830,000 each.

    I guess my worry is that if the housing market continues to go down and interest rates continue to rise, I could be left at a point where I can’t service the loan and can’t afford to sell!

    Am I making any sense! Any help is very much appreciated.

    Profile photo of Fast LaneFast Lane
    Member
    @fast-lane
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 527

    Try these guys for a basic overview of duplexes, costs, features etc; http://www.dixonhomes.com.au

    In response to your questions,

    1. $1200 sqm would be your final cost to build
    2. See above
    3. $10 000 sounds far too much for basic landscaping on a block this size with a great big duplex on it.
    4. Dont know
    5. Prepare for 20% just in case

    For your first post, welcome by the way!, it sounds like you’re the type of person who is born for this type of thing. I have given you a very basic overview of what you’re after, but I dont think you’ll have too much trouble finding out what you need to know. Good Luck…G7

    Profile photo of wealth4life.comwealth4life.com
    Member
    @wealth4life.com
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 1,248

    Hi Richard hope u r well,

    I have answered similar posts to this many times so i will keep it short.

    1. have a builder or architect estimate the project for you. (the figures u have quoted seem fine subject to ………)

    2. get an accountant to go over the numbers and estimates in detail, do not guess.(you need to understand all the costs in detail)

    3. If the numbers work do it, if the numbers don’t work don’t rework the numbers!!!!!

    4. markets will change and interest rates will change also, welcome to the world of property development and risk.

    5. wether you do or you don’t the choice is yours, good luck.

    In Sydney there is a new water management program which is adding a great deal of costs on and is very hard to pass on to the purchaser, be careful and get everything in writing mate,

    resiwealth

    3.

    Profile photo of richardcassrichardcass
    Member
    @richardcass
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 7

    Thanks for the advice guys. I will meet with my accountant next week and make sure he is OK with the figures. Looks like it should be OK to go ahead – I have run some of the figures through an excel spreadsheet/software called ‘Feasability’ and between my worst and better case scenarios I am looking at a net profit after selling costs etc of between 3% to 20%.

    Further reseach into some extra costs come in as follows:
    1. long service levy ($?)
    2. Section 94 infrastructure contribution (Randwick council in Sydney) – approx $4500
    3. DA costs of around $2200
    4. Construction Certificate cost ($?)
    5. Section 73 certificate from Sydney Water – $7500 for the application, the likely work to be done, certified project manager and an infrastructure contribution.

    I’m sure there are going to be more than a few extra hidden costs that I haven’t thought of yet as well!

    Any ideas on cost of construction certificate and/or the long service levy!

    Thanks Again,
    Rich

    Profile photo of Fast LaneFast Lane
    Member
    @fast-lane
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 527

    Now you’re getting technical!

    Best person to talk to would be Michael Yardney, amongst others, who is a capable and experienced developer on this forum.

    Good Luck…G7

    Profile photo of LynvrLynvr
    Member
    @lynvr
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 2

    Hi Rich,

    Can you tell me where you got the excel spreadsheet/software called ‘Feasability’. I in the initial stages of fesibility for a double block development.

    Thanks

    Lynette

    Profile photo of WakeWake
    Participant
    @wake
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 123

    Hi Lynette

    I know there is a feasability program available from http://www.devfeas.com.au. Don’t know if it is the same program Rich is using, but you can download a trial. They have to email you a username & password but its free. Have looked at it, but not used it to properly analyse a deal, so can’t comment on its usefullness compared to any other similar programs.

    Regards
    Wake

    Profile photo of cheelcheel
    Participant
    @cheel
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 1

    hi richardcass, just wondering if it all went well for you? my husband and i are about to start the process of determining feasability, what project home or independent builder did you end up using?
    cheel

    Profile photo of sandrat101sandrat101
    Participant
    @sandrat101
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 3

    Hi Richarc,

    Your situation sounds exactly like ours regarding the duplex etc.  We have only just had our plans approved through council and are also looking to build soon with my brother and father. 

    One word of advice is to make sure you comply 100% with councils guidelines relating to floor space ratio / maintaining privacy for neighbours etc. as we tried to push the boundaries by about 1% and led to thousands of dollars extra in redesigning.  Make sure you do it properly the first time.  It ended up costing us about $30,000 to get to this stage – even though we only paid $6000 for our first plans.  Extra costs came from drains not on our property but run along side it etc.  They wanted us to fix and put graters etc. on our plans.  All the surveys for it etc. added up.  Luckily, we could share the costs.

    Thanks for the information regarding approx $1200 per square metre.

    Sandra Taylor

    Profile photo of RnPRnP
    Member
    @rnp
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 27

    Hi,
    We have some tried and tested software available that accurately pinpoints every single cent spent on any kind of real estate deal. It's a very useful piece of software that is sure to help you.  Check out http://www.winningformulasforsuccess.com/Reno-Tools-Package.
    Amanda

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